Need help with what to do next

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thepennsylvanian
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Need help with what to do next

Unread postby thepennsylvanian » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:54 am

Back in October, I found a a subtle buck trail and a couple of scrapes and rubs. I didnt do much digging because the sign was hot, I didnt want to ruin the area. I backed until I had a wind that I felt would favor the deer but give a small chance of getting him in range. I had no idea how big the deer was, but the area didnt have alot of deer sign, and it just felt like an area that a big one would use. Fast foward to Nov 14, I finally got the wind I was waiting for. I made entry carefully and setup slightly of and downwind of a scrape, and 10 yards from the trail. At 5:10 I see antler coming through the woods at 80+ yards, slowly working towards me. He circles up to the scrape freshened it up and slowly started my way. I drew and got ready, the tree I ranged @ 18 yards was directly in front of him, but he paused when I beaver slapped its tail on the water some 100 yards away. He didnt like that he stood there for what seemed like hours and just turned and went back the exact trail he came in on. He was behind brush that entire time I needed one more step to expose he vitals. I let him walk and didnt try to force a shot I knew I couldnt make. So I sat gathered my composure then climbed down hung a camera and left. I never got that wind again as the season closed 2 days later.... I checked my camera only to hang a cell camera in there and I had got some pics of him after my encounter, only now it's long after dark or super early in the am. I ended up taking a lesser deer in the rifle season but I need to figure some things out on this buck. I dont really know where to go from here. I think hes still in the area, (wishful thinking), so what should my next moves be in trying to locate this deer. Do I blow through there trying to find his bedding, do I just pepper the outskirts with cameras, do I leave it alone until next year? I have never been a target buck hunter, typically I'm a target of opportunity kind of guy. However, I'm trying to, and have been trying to, be a better more thought out hunter. This is the first deer I'm going to try to locate and target, if he made it that is. So what would you guys be thinking of as you move forward into the late/post season with a deer like this?
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rfickes87
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby rfickes87 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:22 am

All you can do obviously is keep scouting thru the winter and spring. The fact that you have 3 different encounters of that buck between trail cams and seeing him in from your stand tells me he probably was there even more than that, so clearly that is part of his core area. if it was just one 2:30 am photo i would say that was just by chance and you have no idea where we came from. But I think you're in his core. Maybe just a rut shift core area? But if you watch those GPS studies they'll shift out of their home core to a rut core maybe a mile or two away and then when rut is over like this time of year they go back to the home core.

I would map out that area for bedding areas and scout hard over the next few months. and this spring/summer place cameras all spread out over that very large core area. If you can spread out 6-8 cams over that large area and get lucky on a picture of him again then I'd move all your cameras to that one area and try and locate him.

Good luck man from one SW PA hunter to another. He could be dead obviously with the orange army just passing thru so who knows but the fact that you caught him at least 3 times or so tells me you were in his core. That's a heck of a buck, I wish you luck!
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thepennsylvanian
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby thepennsylvanian » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:15 am

I am definitely going to throw more cameras at it. Found some scrape lines a couple hundred yards away. I have an idea of where he could be bedding, but that's not confirmed. Thing is, I'm nervous of 2 things, first do I get into where I suspect hes bedding and try to put eyes on it? I feel that I run the risk of pushing him out for good, just a feeling by the way he was acting, soooooo cagey. Hed take a step, stop and stand, the another, stop and stand. The buck was definitely an anxious on so hed been hunted before. I may try to scout fringes and look for alternative routes in and out of the area I suspect hes bedding and that would be as close as I want to get... second is that I never see or get another pic of him, which would suck, it's just a deer I know, but itd be a story that has no closure...... I wouldn't have learned much from that....
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby ODH » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:33 am

If you are in an area where archery is open (into Jan?) then I would hunt him hard likes he’s still alive. If it helps, a friend hunting last week bumped the same buck out of the same bed four days Ina row - couldn’t manage to get a clear shot but had eyes on him each day. If he’s alive and there then you likely won’t displace him.

I would also scout for the bed(s) twice. Once when everyone’s season is over, see if you can find it in the snow. And again once the snow melts (I can usually see more sign then). You already know where he is and you know at least one good stand. Now the only questions are is he alive, how many beds across how large an area, and is he there in Oct or only mid Nov. I haven’t had great luck covering a core area with a lot of cameras. They always find them. You only need one pic, summer or early Fall, just to know he’s alive. That approach has worked for me. One thing you can count on is if he was there last Nov he’ll be there next Nov.
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby justdirtyfun » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:49 am

Deer will be more predictable during late season. Could you drop cams and stack your odds for a good hunt at the same time?
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby thepennsylvanian » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:53 am

At this point, I cant hunt him, as I filled my buck tag for this year. What I'm looking to do is smartly scout, find bedding, and honestly find out if hes alive.
I dont really know what to do to scout smart. . Should stay on the fringes, do I get in there and try to find beds, or do I grid the area out and knock them out one at a time? I like the idea of going in twice, but would I cover the same ground both times? If/when I hang cameras they will be cell cans so that I wont have to go back in except for batteries but they should last me over a year. I've "scouted" before, but not like this, not targeted like this. Though, I cant get aggresive if I dont know what I do t know.....
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby rfickes87 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:16 am

thepennsylvanian wrote:At this point, I cant hunt him, as I filled my buck tag for this year. What I'm looking to do is smartly scout, find bedding, and honestly find out if hes alive.
I dont really know what to do to scout smart. . Should stay on the fringes, do I get in there and try to find beds, or do I grid the area out and knock them out one at a time? I like the idea of going in twice, but would I cover the same ground both times? If/when I hang cameras they will be cell cans so that I wont have to go back in except for batteries but they should last me over a year. I've "scouted" before, but not like this, not targeted like this. Though, I cant get aggresive if I dont know what I do t know.....


If I were you and I were that worried about him I'd want to know where he is NOW and I'd be tearing thru the best bedding areas looking for sign. You're not gonna hunt him for a 10-11 months from now. Why would one bump from you cause him to leave the bedding that's kept him alive all this time? As Dan says, no better time to scout than in season. I would do this before 12/26, once muzzeloader comes in I would back off so you don't jump him to another hunter. Lots of snow coming today to aid you in tracking. and I wouldn't be afraid to hang a couple cams on trails in/out the best bedding areas, not too close though to beds. This is what i plan to do this weekend too ;) .

you said "I don't really know what to do to scout smart" Listen to the southern outdoorsman podcast ep 141 with Josh driver on targeting specific bucks in core areas. That'll get you on the right track for summer scouting/targeting. But get out now and scout. Mark trees to set up in along the way so you give yourself lots of options to hunt from.
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby thepennsylvanian » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:33 pm

rfickes87 wrote:
thepennsylvanian wrote:At this point, I cant hunt him, as I filled my buck tag for this year. What I'm looking to do is smartly scout, find bedding, and honestly find out if hes alive.
I dont really know what to do to scout smart. . Should stay on the fringes, do I get in there and try to find beds, or do I grid the area out and knock them out one at a time? I like the idea of going in twice, but would I cover the same ground both times? If/when I hang cameras they will be cell cans so that I wont have to go back in except for batteries but they should last me over a year. I've "scouted" before, but not like this, not targeted like this. Though, I cant get aggresive if I dont know what I do t know.....


If I were you and I were that worried about him I'd want to know where he is NOW and I'd be tearing thru the best bedding areas looking for sign. You're not gonna hunt him for a 10-11 months from now. Why would one bump from you cause him to leave the bedding that's kept him alive all this time? As Dan says, no better time to scout than in season. I would do this before 12/26, once muzzeloader comes in I would back off so you don't jump him to another hunter. Lots of snow coming today to aid you in tracking. and I wouldn't be afraid to hang a couple cams on trails in/out the best bedding areas, not too close though to beds. This is what i plan to do this weekend too ;) .

you said "I don't really know what to do to scout smart" Listen to the southern outdoorsman podcast ep 141 with Josh driver on targeting specific bucks in core areas. That'll get you on the right track for summer scouting/targeting. But get out now and scout. Mark trees to set up in along the way so you give yourself lots of options to hunt from.

Well I took your advice and went in today! I had a mother camera about a half mile away from that spot I encountered, i kinda worked the edge of where I think his "core" is until I could make a b line to my camera.... well I found a totally new access to the area I suspected he was bedding, and my cam was right on the money, only it died nov 12.... but I have velvet pictures of him and more..... all the way up to when it died, like 30 plus pictures
...... now I know I need to get a picture of him to confirm he's alive, that's my goal now, so I'm gonna hang 6 maybe 8 on as many trails as I can to try and get any pics of him......
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby Evanszach7 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:23 pm

thepennsylvanian wrote:
rfickes87 wrote:
thepennsylvanian wrote:At this point, I cant hunt him, as I filled my buck tag for this year. What I'm looking to do is smartly scout, find bedding, and honestly find out if hes alive.
I dont really know what to do to scout smart. . Should stay on the fringes, do I get in there and try to find beds, or do I grid the area out and knock them out one at a time? I like the idea of going in twice, but would I cover the same ground both times? If/when I hang cameras they will be cell cans so that I wont have to go back in except for batteries but they should last me over a year. I've "scouted" before, but not like this, not targeted like this. Though, I cant get aggresive if I dont know what I do t know.....


If I were you and I were that worried about him I'd want to know where he is NOW and I'd be tearing thru the best bedding areas looking for sign. You're not gonna hunt him for a 10-11 months from now. Why would one bump from you cause him to leave the bedding that's kept him alive all this time? As Dan says, no better time to scout than in season. I would do this before 12/26, once muzzeloader comes in I would back off so you don't jump him to another hunter. Lots of snow coming today to aid you in tracking. and I wouldn't be afraid to hang a couple cams on trails in/out the best bedding areas, not too close though to beds. This is what i plan to do this weekend too ;) .

you said "I don't really know what to do to scout smart" Listen to the southern outdoorsman podcast ep 141 with Josh driver on targeting specific bucks in core areas. That'll get you on the right track for summer scouting/targeting. But get out now and scout. Mark trees to set up in along the way so you give yourself lots of options to hunt from.

Well I took your advice and went in today! I had a mother camera about a half mile away from that spot I encountered, i kinda worked the edge of where I think his "core" is until I could make a b line to my camera.... well I found a totally new access to the area I suspected he was bedding, and my cam was right on the money, only it died nov 12.... but I have velvet pictures of him and more..... all the way up to when it died, like 30 plus pictures
...... now I know I need to get a picture of him to confirm he's alive, that's my goal now, so I'm gonna hang 6 maybe 8 on as many trails as I can to try and get any pics of him......


If you've got 30+ pics I personally wouldn't bomb a small area with that many cams. Its also possible he's shifted for winter and no pic now might be misleading. It sounds like you're in his core area, and he's a buck that doesn't shift much between summer and fall. Steve Sherk has some good videos of casting a wider trail cam net around terrain features coming and going from a core area in PA hill country. You've got annual trail cam data with directions of travel. Do you have kill trees based on terrain features and more common winds? Seemed like a long time to wait for just the right wind.
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby thepennsylvanian » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:05 am

It was a long time to wait for the right wind, but it almost worked. On top of that, I didnt really know what he was, I had other bucks I was on so it wasnt terribly hard to just sit another stand or go out of state if the wind wasnt what I needed. I know almost doesnt count for beans, but again, it almost worked. The area I'm talking about posting cams up is roughly 2-2.5 square miles, I dont know exactly where he his bedding, and I want to cover as many terrain features and trails to attempt to get a picture if he is still alive..
I never heard of Steve sherk, I'll definitely be looking into that!
I haven't got kill trees because, first I dont know what hes doing yet, i only hunted him once, second, there arent many trees around this area, so itll be slim pickins if I do need to start through a plan together for next year....
Also, you gotta understand that I'm learning man. I've always been the target of opportunity hunter as I said before. Hunting this way is completely different than what I'm used to, which I've always heard hunting truly big bucks is like hunting a different animal. Well I need to learn that!
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby thepennsylvanian » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:07 am

It was a long time to wait for the right wind, but it almost worked. On top of that, I didnt really know what he was, I had other bucks I was on so it wasnt terribly hard to just sit another stand or go out of state if the wind wasnt what I needed. I know almost doesnt count for beans, but again, it almost worked. The area I'm talking about posting cams up is roughly 2-2.5 square miles, I dont know exactly where he his bedding, and I want to cover as many terrain features and trails to attempt to get a picture if he is still alive..
I never heard of Steve sherk, I'll definitely be looking into that!
I haven't got kill trees because, first I dont know what hes doing yet, i only hunted him once, second, there arent many trees around this area, so itll be slim pickins if I do need to start through a plan together for next year....
Also, you gotta understand that I'm learning man. I've always been the target of opportunity hunter as I said before. Hunting this way is completely different than what I'm used to, which I've always heard hunting truly big bucks is like hunting a different animal. Well I need to learn that!
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby rfickes87 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:20 am

thepennsylvanian wrote:It was a long time to wait for the right wind, but it almost worked. On top of that, I didnt really know what he was, I had other bucks I was on so it wasnt terribly hard to just sit another stand or go out of state if the wind wasnt what I needed. I know almost doesnt count for beans, but again, it almost worked. The area I'm talking about posting cams up is roughly 2-2.5 square miles, I dont know exactly where he his bedding, and I want to cover as many terrain features and trails to attempt to get a picture if he is still alive..
I never heard of Steve sherk, I'll definitely be looking into that!
I haven't got kill trees because, first I dont know what hes doing yet, i only hunted him once, second, there arent many trees around this area, so itll be slim pickins if I do need to start through a plan together for next year....
Also, you gotta understand that I'm learning man. I've always been the target of opportunity hunter as I said before. Hunting this way is completely different than what I'm used to, which I've always heard hunting truly big bucks is like hunting a different animal. Well I need to learn that!


30+ pics on one camera up until 11-12? OK so that proves you were in his core, at least your camera was. So while I was in there I would have read the sign and picked out a handful of trees to climb where you think you could kill him and marked them somehow so you can find them next year. If you haven't done that I think you need to the time is now I wouldn't want to monkey around in there in summer or preseason. I would have also stuck another fresh camera right where that camera that died was and just let it sit. Because it clearly is in the right area to catch him and also nice to know it did not spook him where it was. I would not spread out 6-8 cameras like we discussed before b/c you clearly have found his core, unless you keep the cameras back away from this area. There is no need to do that process and its too intrusive for the intel that you already have now. If you watch the Penn state GPS collar studies from year to year those bucks literally move around the exact same areas year after year. So if it were me I'd have full confidence he'll be there next year IF he's alive and you leave it alone till next year. I'd go home and sit and study each picture of him and document the weather and look at patterns he did. Then I'd just get busy finding other cores in the mean time. Give yourself a backup plan for next year, or two or three or four. Find areas that match this area. Good luck buddy way to go!
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby thepennsylvanian » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:04 am

I didn't plan to have the time to get in there yesterday and I keep a tote of cameras in my truck for that reason, only yesterday I drove the wifes car. I will be getting in there before xmas to hang a cell cam so I can stay out completely! I think i did find his core because I got alot of daylight pics, but he wasnt there everyday. So i need to hang atleast 1 or 2 more to try and get movement daily, if he is alive still. I probably wont be doing that though unless I get confirmation hes alive...
Now I do have other bucks I got on camera this season that I have to track down so between those and the ones I found in WV I have my work cut out this winter!

Some of the pics of the last camera pull!
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Re: Need help with what to do next

Unread postby Evanszach7 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:46 pm

Didn't mean to sound like you did the wrong thing by waiting for the right wind, I've just found I've waited too long on a few bucks and that exact spot within his core had gone cold while I waited, especially September 7- Thanksgiving. Changes in food, pressure, leaf cover, rut, weather, etc.

There's probably a spot within that spot where you could have thrown a hunt at it, saw something, then made an adjustment. Might even have to do a ground hunt if trees are limited. Or, you hunt that spot, burn that trail on that terrain feature, but then could hunt him on a different feature coming in or out of that core area. But you've got to intimately know the area, which it sounds like you're about to. :clap: I've tip toed around a couple cores for 2-3 years with cams and hunts, but the past couple years have got way more aggressive with way more opportunities, and learned the spot that season. Now I know it for that buck or the next big buck, if the core is that good.

2-2.5 square miles is perfect. Not to sound like a fan boy, but Steve Sherk is legit and is a guide on PA public. This video is pretty cool and has helped me refine my cams in OH, KY, and TN:


https://youtu.be/19TDnVFsvcM


thepennsylvanian wrote:It was a long time to wait for the right wind, but it almost worked. On top of that, I didnt really know what he was, I had other bucks I was on so it wasnt terribly hard to just sit another stand or go out of state if the wind wasnt what I needed. I know almost doesnt count for beans, but again, it almost worked. The area I'm talking about posting cams up is roughly 2-2.5 square miles, I dont know exactly where he his bedding, and I want to cover as many terrain features and trails to attempt to get a picture if he is still alive..
I never heard of Steve sherk, I'll definitely be looking into that!
I haven't got kill trees because, first I dont know what hes doing yet, i only hunted him once, second, there arent many trees around this area, so itll be slim pickins if I do need to start through a plan together for next year....
Also, you gotta understand that I'm learning man. I've always been the target of opportunity hunter as I said before. Hunting this way is completely different than what I'm used to, which I've always heard hunting truly big bucks is like hunting a different animal. Well I need to learn that!


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