Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

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d_rek
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Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby d_rek » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:37 am

So I have a piece of private property that I have hunted going on 5 years now. I generally have the property figured out, but am wondering if I couldn't be doing things a little differently to up my odds at seeing more/better bucks. Some info about the property below:

  • 80 acre private parcel with 50 acres timber and 30 acres ag.
  • Timber is generally rolling hardwoods with some random pines and whatnots. I have marked areas with understudy on the first map.
  • Ag field rotates between corn and soybeans, but as property owner gets older they, for whatever reason, have only had beans planted last 3 years.
  • I have all the two tracks and major deer trails mapped out pretty accurately. I walked all of them back using gps. Probably some that are unknown, but if they are they are very light.
  • There are some wild apples growing on west side of property. I have found good sign there but never seen a buck on the hoof during daylight despite good cover in the area.
  • The oaks are in a place where there is not good transition/security cover, and I have only seen does/yearling feeding on them during daylight. I also have noticed that these oaks tend to drop early and usually all of the feeding is heavy before or right as season begins.
  • My best stands have been the two marked on the east side just north of the doe bedding area. I have observed bucks bedding around the perimeter of the doe bedding, but have also travelled from the east, west, and north to cruise the bedding area.
  • This is private property in Michigan and while I can control the amount of pressure this piece gets I have no control over surrounding parcels as they are all private too. I have done very well waiting until pre-rut towards the end of October and hunting strategically around halloween up until Nov. 15th.
  • Lastly... hunting the bedding area itself is off limits per the property owner because that's the 'sanctuary'.

My primary question is...
If i'm targeting old age class bucks... what other areas should I be targeting on this property?

I feel like every year I see a steady parade of 1.5 yr old bucks but rarely anything 2.5 yr or older. The oldest buck I have seen on the hoof (and subsequently killed) was a 2.5 yr old 8pt that was cruising the bedding area moving east to west. I observed him the day before moving south to NW but I did not see the direction he came in from (it's quite thick around the bedding area, so it's possible he was bedded nearby). The next day I sat the stand immediately adjacent and he came in cruising east to west right at dusk when I killed him.

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Boogieman1
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:12 pm

Just some thoughts from me.. U say u got all the beat down paths covered, the only ones u don't know about are the lightly traveled faint trails. Those my friend are the ones that matter.

I believe in sanctuaries, however I use them once I'm tagged out to give them somewhere safe to get through the season. While I'm in Pursuit nothing is of limits to me. You win some and lose some but it's better than riding the pine. But if I understand correctly u do have to respect landowners wishes and I wouldn't do anything to break that trust and end up on the outs. Would just get as close to it as possible without causing conflict.

What works for me is hunting a year behind. This way I get to see the natural order of things with my pressure removed from the situation. I use cams and I get curious! Every property I have ever stepped foot on no matter how sorry or great it is has a brief time slot where it is at its maximum potential. I try to line my first time sit during that time. Through trial and error I find the tree that more big bucks walk by than any other. Once tree is found it never changes unless something has altered it.

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greenhorndave
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby greenhorndave » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:30 pm

I see the known doe bedding in the thick. Are the bucks bedded there too? Have you ever been able to do a late summer observation sit to see if the bucks are entering the Ag field at all and where?

PS - Nice diagram.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby Lockdown » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:17 pm

You said the biggest buck you’ve seen on the hoof is 2.5. Have you ran trail camera and verified that there are older bucks in the area?
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby d_rek » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:00 am

greenhorndave wrote:I see the known doe bedding in the thick. Are the bucks bedded there too? Have you ever been able to do a late summer observation sit to see if the bucks are entering the Ag field at all and where?

PS - Nice diagram.


I have observed them bedding anywhere upto and including 150 yards from doe bedding. I have not done a late summer observation sit, though drive by the property almost daily most of the year and typically I do not see bucks in the AG field during daylight. I have seen field edge scrapes along a couple of the trees but I assume they are mostly visited at night. I think the field is too exposed to the road for them to feel comfortable moving in daylight.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby d_rek » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:02 am

Lockdown wrote:You said the biggest buck you’ve seen on the hoof is 2.5. Have you ran trail camera and verified that there are older bucks in the area?


No. This year I am thinking of running cameras starting in the spring and letting them soak until a week or two before season begins and from there make a decision.

The landowner runs cameras but doesn't check them frequently. He says every couple years he gets a 3.5yr or better but it's always at night. Have not seen the pics to confirm/deny this claim.
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Grizzlyadam
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby Grizzlyadam » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:24 am

If you are targeting old age class bucks, you first need to know that there is one there. Trail cams, glassing, big tracks, high rubs, etc.... If a 2.5 or 3.5 is all you got, you may just need to eat some tags for a year or two and keep the pressure off of the place. Going only on the info you provided I would be inclined to set up a bit closer to the bedding just south of your current stands over on the east side. On or just inside the transition from dense timber to the thick. On more southerly winds.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby tgreeno » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:36 pm

It sounds to me like the mature buck are not bedding on this property.

A 3.5 year old every couple of years, and at night, doesn't sound promising to me. It's hard to target old age class bucks, if they don't show on your land during shooting hours. You may get lucky with a cruiser during rut.

I would camera bomb the sanctuary and let them soak for the entire year. Then see what you got after season. I would do that every season if I owned private. And, I wouldn't have a sanctuary. I just wouldn't pound the bedding.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby cspot » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:00 pm

It sounds like you are in a similar situation as I am in PA. Due to hunting pressure there are very few mature bucks in the area. Because we have antler restrictions we do have several 2.5 year olds. Most years we may have a single 3.5 year old running around and a 4.5 year old is very very rare.

Basically you have to set realistic goals. If your goal is to kill a 4.5 year old deer or older then you won't kill very many deer on that property. The property is not near big enough to "save" any bucks on. Personally I set my goals for what is around that year and hunt it that way. If I held for a 4.5 year old every year then most years I wouldn't even bother hunting.

Like mentioned above set some cameras out and see what is running around.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:18 pm

cspot wrote:It sounds like you are in a similar situation as I am in PA. Due to hunting pressure there are very few mature bucks in the area. Because we have antler restrictions we do have several 2.5 year olds. Most years we may have a single 3.5 year old running around and a 4.5 year old is very very rare.

Basically you have to set realistic goals. If your goal is to kill a 4.5 year old deer or older then you won't kill very many deer on that property. The property is not near big enough to "save" any bucks on. Personally I set my goals for what is around that year and hunt it that way. If I held for a 4.5 year old every year then most years I wouldn't even bother hunting.

Like mentioned above set some cameras out and see what is running around.

Just a observation on acerage size. But I have witnessed first hand bucks being able to survive until ripe old age due to a 2 acre patch of weeds. I have also got more than one killed by a gun Hunter on a neighboring by stomping through it. It's my opinion that if there is a piece of property, no matter the size that never gets human traffic. Better bucks will find it like rats to cheese. That's not supporting a sanctuary method cause most of the time if u don't physically remove em from that thicket they ain't leaving. Just saying the size of it has nothing to do with it from what I witness.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby cspot » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:31 pm

Boogieman1 wrote:
cspot wrote:It sounds like you are in a similar situation as I am in PA. Due to hunting pressure there are very few mature bucks in the area. Because we have antler restrictions we do have several 2.5 year olds. Most years we may have a single 3.5 year old running around and a 4.5 year old is very very rare.

Basically you have to set realistic goals. If your goal is to kill a 4.5 year old deer or older then you won't kill very many deer on that property. The property is not near big enough to "save" any bucks on. Personally I set my goals for what is around that year and hunt it that way. If I held for a 4.5 year old every year then most years I wouldn't even bother hunting.

Like mentioned above set some cameras out and see what is running around.

Just a observation on acerage size. But I have witnessed first hand bucks being able to survive until ripe old age due to a 2 acre patch of weeds. I have also got more than one killed by a gun Hunter on a neighboring by stomping through it. It's my opinion that if there is a piece of property, no matter the size that never gets human traffic. Better bucks will find it like rats to cheese. That's not supporting a sanctuary method cause most of the time if u don't physically remove em from that thicket they ain't leaving. Just saying the size of it has nothing to do with it from what I witness.


The home range of a buck is approximately 1 sq mile for alot of the year I believe and even larger during the rut. That equates to approximately 640 acres. Looking at his property it is 80 acres total. He says 50 acres of woods. Looks like maybe 30 acres may contain bedding as 20 acres is open woods. Looks like that bedding is bordered by neighbors. Pretty good chance that a buck is going to move on daylight onto the neighbors property. Also if Michigan is like PA there is a good chance that the neighbors may walk a bit over the property line into the sanctuary. :D

Now I agree that there is some bucks that can, but on a small property with high pressure around I simply don't think that you can keep yourself in a steady supply of mature bucks. Maybe in a very high deer population area? Anyway just going from my experience. In PA we have the highest deer hunter density in the country so my experience may not translate to other areas.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:00 pm

cspot wrote:
Boogieman1 wrote:
cspot wrote:It sounds like you are in a similar situation as I am in PA. Due to hunting pressure there are very few mature bucks in the area. Because we have antler restrictions we do have several 2.5 year olds. Most years we may have a single 3.5 year old running around and a 4.5 year old is very very rare.

Basically you have to set realistic goals. If your goal is to kill a 4.5 year old deer or older then you won't kill very many deer on that property. The property is not near big enough to "save" any bucks on. Personally I set my goals for what is around that year and hunt it that way. If I held for a 4.5 year old every year then most years I wouldn't even bother hunting.

Like mentioned above set some cameras out and see what is running around.

Just a observation on acerage size. But I have witnessed first hand bucks being able to survive until ripe old age due to a 2 acre patch of weeds. I have also got more than one killed by a gun Hunter on a neighboring by stomping through it. It's my opinion that if there is a piece of property, no matter the size that never gets human traffic. Better bucks will find it like rats to cheese. That's not supporting a sanctuary method cause most of the time if u don't physically remove em from that thicket they ain't leaving. Just saying the size of it has nothing to do with it from what I witness.


The home range of a buck is approximately 1 sq mile for alot of the year I believe and even larger during the rut. That equates to approximately 640 acres. Looking at his property it is 80 acres total. He says 50 acres of woods. Looks like maybe 30 acres may contain bedding as 20 acres is open woods. Looks like that bedding is bordered by neighbors. Pretty good chance that a buck is going to move on daylight onto the neighbors property. Also if Michigan is like PA there is a good chance that the neighbors may walk a bit over the property line into the sanctuary. :D

Now I agree that there is some bucks that can, but on a small property with high pressure around I simply don't think that you can keep yourself in a steady supply of mature bucks. Maybe in a very high deer population area? Anyway just going from my experience. In PA we have the highest deer hunter density in the country so my experience may not translate to other areas.

Not trying to debate or convince anyone of squat but in a life time of hunting small acerage in a low deer density area I intentionally seek out the complete opposite of what u r describing. I want a spot that does not get stepped on by human traffic. The heavier the surrounding pressure the better for me. I also don't give a hoot about a deers home range size to me that's based off after dark movement and wind direction. I play the hand I'm dealt and for me it's a lot easier to find bucks in places not pressured surrounded by places that are. Then to be scouring home ranges of lightly hunted ground. Atleast in heavy hunted areas u know where there not IMO.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby cspot » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:11 pm

Boogieman1 wrote:
cspot wrote:
Boogieman1 wrote:
cspot wrote:It sounds like you are in a similar situation as I am in PA. Due to hunting pressure there are very few mature bucks in the area. Because we have antler restrictions we do have several 2.5 year olds. Most years we may have a single 3.5 year old running around and a 4.5 year old is very very rare.

Basically you have to set realistic goals. If your goal is to kill a 4.5 year old deer or older then you won't kill very many deer on that property. The property is not near big enough to "save" any bucks on. Personally I set my goals for what is around that year and hunt it that way. If I held for a 4.5 year old every year then most years I wouldn't even bother hunting.

Like mentioned above set some cameras out and see what is running around.

Just a observation on acerage size. But I have witnessed first hand bucks being able to survive until ripe old age due to a 2 acre patch of weeds. I have also got more than one killed by a gun Hunter on a neighboring by stomping through it. It's my opinion that if there is a piece of property, no matter the size that never gets human traffic. Better bucks will find it like rats to cheese. That's not supporting a sanctuary method cause most of the time if u don't physically remove em from that thicket they ain't leaving. Just saying the size of it has nothing to do with it from what I witness.


The home range of a buck is approximately 1 sq mile for alot of the year I believe and even larger during the rut. That equates to approximately 640 acres. Looking at his property it is 80 acres total. He says 50 acres of woods. Looks like maybe 30 acres may contain bedding as 20 acres is open woods. Looks like that bedding is bordered by neighbors. Pretty good chance that a buck is going to move on daylight onto the neighbors property. Also if Michigan is like PA there is a good chance that the neighbors may walk a bit over the property line into the sanctuary. :D

Now I agree that there is some bucks that can, but on a small property with high pressure around I simply don't think that you can keep yourself in a steady supply of mature bucks. Maybe in a very high deer population area? Anyway just going from my experience. In PA we have the highest deer hunter density in the country so my experience may not translate to other areas.

Not trying to debate or convince anyone of squat but in a life time of hunting small acerage in a low deer density area I intentionally seek out the complete opposite of what u r describing. I want a spot that does not get stepped on by human traffic. The heavier the surrounding pressure the better for me. I also don't give a hoot about a deers home range size to me that's based off after dark movement and wind direction. I play the hand I'm dealt and for me it's a lot easier to find bucks in places not pressured surrounded by places that are. Then to be scouring home ranges of lightly hunted ground. Atleast in heavy hunted areas u know where there not IMO.


I agree with you on that if you can find it. Finding a place here that is unpressured though is very tough. Property tends to get trespassed on here during gun season, so it is pretty tough to keep a sanctuary. I don't live in the big woods part of the state, but around here we have ag and broken woodlots. Not sure what our hunter density is right now, but a few years ago it was around 20 hunters per square mile.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:14 pm

I believe it on that Michigan and PA stuff lol. I want no part of any of that, just playing.. I do think we take a lot of stuff for granted and always focus on greener grass. In my case I gripe about having to politic to find a place to hunt and how small the spots are and wish I lived in a state with the public access yours does. You prob wish u could find a spot with limited access as some of mine. It's always something with us hunters lol, finally just learned to adapt my goals accordingly and just be happy for the privileges I have cause somewhere there's a guy who's successful who has it worse than all of us.
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Re: Help Me Hunt a Piece of Private Differently

Unread postby d_rek » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:33 am

Thanks for all of the input.

I agree that you can't kill what isn't there. It might be that A 2.5yr old is the best i'm going to get on this parcel. I'm fine with that, but I just wanted to make sure i'm not overlooking anything else in regards to the property and terrain itself that might help put me on better deer.

I think the real answer is I need more intel.
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-The Deep


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