Scouting based on math

[GreatWhiteOak]

Alright guys I've been thinking about this for a little while now and looking for opinions. I'm planning on dong some serious scouting for the next couple of months. I have a lot of area to scout all public and all big woods. My question is has any one done scouting based on math to a certain degree? What I mean by this is based on the top 1/3 elevation if you have for instance like my case where the peak of a ridge is 2400 feet and the valley is 1500 ft then 2400ft -1500ft = 900ft then 900 divided by 3 =300ft then 2400ft - 300 = 2100 ft. So that 2100 I would think would give you a decent base for elevation to start scouting. Now I know that this is just a base elevation and things can very for any number of reasons but it might be a good place to start. Has anyone done their scouting this way or have found beds and looked at the elevation and done the math to see how close to the certain elevation based off of that were close?

[NYBackcountry]

Im going to jump to a conclusion and assume this is mountainous terrain based on the elevations and the big woods description.

It cant hurt as a starting point. My approach in the mountains is pick the leeward side and start heading up. Not all traffic is on ridges, in fact I would argue if it's not to steep, traffic will go all around the mountain.

I find the 1/3 rule to be less applicable in the mountains. Typically what I see is the majority of your travel routes occur on the mountainside at various elevations, when I cut those parallel "highways" I stop. I start looking around above the trails for dominant features. The idea being, that's where bucks will bed, they can scent check and view the trails depending on wind. I find most buck travel to be right over the edge of any kind of elevation drop. So if you're walking the main ridge, just over the edge out of sight is where I find most travel and bedding sign. I find that bigger bucks bed higher with cover, so naturally the later the season progresses the higher they move and they follow the cover as the foliage drops.

[GreatWhiteOak]

Im going to jump to a conclusion and assume this is mountainous terrain based on the elevations and the big woods description.

It cant hurt as a starting point. My approach in the mountains is pick the leeward side and start heading up. Not all traffic is on ridges, in fact I would argue if it's not to steep, traffic will go all around the mountain.

I find the 1/3 rule to be less applicable in the mountains. Typically what I see is the majority of your travel routes occur on the mountainside at various elevations, when I cut those parallel "highways" I stop. I start looking around above the trails for dominant features. The idea being, that's where bucks will bed, they can scent check and view the trails depending on wind. I find most buck travel to be right over the edge of any kind of elevation drop. So if you're walking the main ridge, just over the edge out of sight is where I find most travel and bedding sign. I find that bigger bucks bed higher with cover, so naturally the later the season progresses the higher they move and they follow the cover as the foliage drops.

I honestly have never thought about scouting up from the bottom like that. I have always been going from the top down. I will definitely be doing this on the ridges I can. Some of the ridges I hunt cant get really steep so with what you said I'm assuming I could do the exact opposite and start from the top and walk it down till it pretty much drops off and then follow the trails I cut while looking up for key features.

[NYBackcountry]

Im going to jump to a conclusion and assume this is mountainous terrain based on the elevations and the big woods description.

It cant hurt as a starting point. My approach in the mountains is pick the leeward side and start heading up. Not all traffic is on ridges, in fact I would argue if it's not to steep, traffic will go all around the mountain.

I find the 1/3 rule to be less applicable in the mountains. Typically what I see is the majority of your travel routes occur on the mountainside at various elevations, when I cut those parallel "highways" I stop. I start looking around above the trails for dominant features. The idea being, that's where bucks will bed, they can scent check and view the trails depending on wind. I find most buck travel to be right over the edge of any kind of elevation drop. So if you're walking the main ridge, just over the edge out of sight is where I find most travel and bedding sign. I find that bigger bucks bed higher with cover, so naturally the later the season progresses the higher they move and they follow the cover as the foliage drops.

I honestly have never thought about scouting up from the bottom like that. I have always been going from the top down. I will definitely be doing this on the ridges I can. Some of the ridges I hunt cant get really steep so with what you said I'm assuming I could do the exact opposite and start from the top and walk it down till it pretty much drops off and then follow the trails I cut while looking up for key features.

Yeah, I generally see bucks bedding above those heavy trails, whether it drops off steep at some point and the trails are above the drop or it's a gradual decline down the mountainside, there will be a feature that jumps out at you above the trail. If you dont see a feature, follow the trail around the mountain looking up.

Another thing I've observed is bucks and does bedding right on the edge of these steep drops. Typically it will be a setup where the wind is coming around the mountain/ridge, so envision the wind running parallel with the ridge or the curve in the mountain. They seem to bed quartering away from the wind looking up the mountain side. What I think they are doing is scent checking their back while watching above and also their escape route straight ahead on the side of the mountain. I'll post a visual when i'm out of work. I started finding these when I started tracking coyotes in the mountains. The coyotes will run the ridge tops, right on the edge looking over. As soon as they can see where the bed is located, they're skylined. If they try to run on the same elevation as the deer, they are either winded or spotted. And lastly, they cant come from below because of the drop.

[Uncle Lou]

Don't take this wrong, but your not really doing any math in your initial equation except finding where your 1/3 is. That is a general rule that dan has preached for some time.

Having said that, there is a thread that might help, besides info others may provide here. Jeff G had a post where he broke the rule to get this years buck. Ninja had some good stuff way back when. That is what I am going to look for think its in the all time tactical thread

It would be helpful to know where you are, in what part of what state, not coordinates, to get an idea of topography.

[Uncle Lou]

Here is the link to the all time tactical thread located at the top of the Deer hunting forum

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24471

First on the topics list was air photos

Then scroll down to the Hill Country threads. Lots of good stuff in there. Really scan the whole list of topics to see what else interests you. Please don't think that I am trying to dump on your thread, just want to show you a great resource on the BEAST

[GreatWhiteOak]

Here is the link to the all time tactical thread located at the top of the Deer hunting forum

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24471

First on the topics list was air photos

Then scroll down to the Hill Country threads. Lots of good stuff in there. Really scan the whole list of topics to see what else interests you. Please don't think that I am trying to dump on your thread, just want to show you a great resource on the BEAST

I don't think that at all any info I can get would be helpful. As to your other post I am in south central Pennsylvania. Like I said I hunt all mountains big woods and have been having a hard time putting everything together. I have found some beds here and there found deer sign and the such but am really struggling to put it all together when it comes to actually hanging the stand and killing deer. I guess that math question was kinda dumb looking at it now but i am just trying the best way to cyber scout and then put boots on the ground to scout since my time will be some what limited. Thanks for link I will definitely be checking those out. I haven't been on here at all for a long time but that will change because I don't want a repeat season like this last one.

[GreatWhiteOak]

Im going to jump to a conclusion and assume this is mountainous terrain based on the elevations and the big woods description.

It cant hurt as a starting point. My approach in the mountains is pick the leeward side and start heading up. Not all traffic is on ridges, in fact I would argue if it's not to steep, traffic will go all around the mountain.

I find the 1/3 rule to be less applicable in the mountains. Typically what I see is the majority of your travel routes occur on the mountainside at various elevations, when I cut those parallel "highways" I stop. I start looking around above the trails for dominant features. The idea being, that's where bucks will bed, they can scent check and view the trails depending on wind. I find most buck travel to be right over the edge of any kind of elevation drop. So if you're walking the main ridge, just over the edge out of sight is where I find most travel and bedding sign. I find that bigger bucks bed higher with cover, so naturally the later the season progresses the higher they move and they follow the cover as the foliage drops.

I honestly have never thought about scouting up from the bottom like that. I have always been going from the top down. I will definitely be doing this on the ridges I can. Some of the ridges I hunt cant get really steep so with what you said I'm assuming I could do the exact opposite and start from the top and walk it down till it pretty much drops off and then follow the trails I cut while looking up for key features.

Yeah, I generally see bucks bedding above those heavy trails, whether it drops off steep at some point and the trails are above the drop or it's a gradual decline down the mountainside, there will be a feature that jumps out at you above the trail. If you dont see a feature, follow the trail around the mountain looking up.

Another thing I've observed is bucks and does bedding right on the edge of these steep drops. Typically it will be a setup where the wind is coming around the mountain/ridge, so envision the wind running parallel with the ridge or the curve in the mountain. They seem to bed quartering away from the wind looking up the mountain side. What I think they are doing is scent checking their back while watching above and also their escape route straight ahead on the side of the mountain. I'll post a visual when i'm out of work. I started finding these when I started tracking coyotes in the mountains. The coyotes will run the ridge tops, right on the edge looking over. As soon as they can see where the bed is located, they're skylined. If they try to run on the same elevation as the deer, they are either winded or spotted. And lastly, they cant come from below because of the drop.

That is some good information. I will be thinking about that next time I am in the woods. I have been out in a few areas looking for beds and to give you a visual say the top is covered in mountain laurel the at the edge it drops off down to a bench say that bench is like 50 yds wide more open hardwoods with some saplings then it again drops down to another bench and same thing open hardwoods after a few benches like that then it drops off pretty step. I'm starting to think I should just walk everyone of those benches and with any luck of finding some bedding areas I can then start applying that to other areas I'm scouting.

[WV Bowhunter]

The 1/3 is a good place to start but I’ve found it’s a moving line of travel based on terrain and ground growth/ground cover. Anywhere 1/3 from the top to 1/3 of the bottom seems to be the cruising routes in my area of WV. Those edge of the shelf’s are good but a lot of times a big buck will walk on side hill if it keeps them out of sight from hunters above. I sometimes find lightly worn trails just below those shelf’s. Don’t get so locked into that 1/3 that you overlook ground growth, those big bucks seem to prefer to move with certain features that once you find them will help you pin point things faster.

[NYBackcountry]

Im going to jump to a conclusion and assume this is mountainous terrain based on the elevations and the big woods description.

It cant hurt as a starting point. My approach in the mountains is pick the leeward side and start heading up. Not all traffic is on ridges, in fact I would argue if it's not to steep, traffic will go all around the mountain.

I find the 1/3 rule to be less applicable in the mountains. Typically what I see is the majority of your travel routes occur on the mountainside at various elevations, when I cut those parallel "highways" I stop. I start looking around above the trails for dominant features. The idea being, that's where bucks will bed, they can scent check and view the trails depending on wind. I find most buck travel to be right over the edge of any kind of elevation drop. So if you're walking the main ridge, just over the edge out of sight is where I find most travel and bedding sign. I find that bigger bucks bed higher with cover, so naturally the later the season progresses the higher they move and they follow the cover as the foliage drops.

I honestly have never thought about scouting up from the bottom like that. I have always been going from the top down. I will definitely be doing this on the ridges I can. Some of the ridges I hunt cant get really steep so with what you said I'm assuming I could do the exact opposite and start from the top and walk it down till it pretty much drops off and then follow the trails I cut while looking up for key features.

Yeah, I generally see bucks bedding above those heavy trails, whether it drops off steep at some point and the trails are above the drop or it's a gradual decline down the mountainside, there will be a feature that jumps out at you above the trail. If you dont see a feature, follow the trail around the mountain looking up.

Another thing I've observed is bucks and does bedding right on the edge of these steep drops. Typically it will be a setup where the wind is coming around the mountain/ridge, so envision the wind running parallel with the ridge or the curve in the mountain. They seem to bed quartering away from the wind looking up the mountain side. What I think they are doing is scent checking their back while watching above and also their escape route straight ahead on the side of the mountain. I'll post a visual when i'm out of work. I started finding these when I started tracking coyotes in the mountains. The coyotes will run the ridge tops, right on the edge looking over. As soon as they can see where the bed is located, they're skylined. If they try to run on the same elevation as the deer, they are either winded or spotted. And lastly, they cant come from below because of the drop.

That is some good information. I will be thinking about that next time I am in the woods. I have been out in a few areas looking for beds and to give you a visual say the top is covered in mountain laurel the at the edge it drops off down to a bench say that bench is like 50 yds wide more open hardwoods with some saplings then it again drops down to another bench and same thing open hardwoods after a few benches like that then it drops off pretty step. I'm starting to think I should just walk everyone of those benches and with any luck of finding some bedding areas I can then start applying that to other areas I'm scouting.

I have a theory that mountain bucks tend to use their vision more than deer in other types of terrain. I think it may have to do with the inconsistent winds on mountains. If I were approaching the scenario you laid out I would look for features a buck could use as back cover to bed against above the benches. I can think of a number of beds on one mountain that I hunt where the buck beds on a cliff, looking down about 200 feet to a bench. He watches that bench and his two dominant exit trails follow the cliff edge. One down to the top of a draw where, you guessed it, the draw meets that bench. The other heads up the mountain to the top of a ridge that drops down to that bench, my theory is he's just sitting there watching it.

Below is an example of a smaller mountain that is part of a larger chain. The wind is represented by the red arrows. Predominant wind is a SW coming off a lake. You'll notice the Buck and Doe in the top right on that point. That is an example of something I see often, the wind coming from the southwest does not go over the point but flows around and with the point. It ends up coming from the NW on that point. Below that bed is a steep drop off so he doesnt need to watch that direction, its much more steep than it looks on this topo, the deer beds facing up hill to the South/Southeast watching one of two defined exit trails. Imagine he were bedding looking up at that doe marker.

The other example is in the bottom left. That buck is bedding over the bench below (blue line), you'll see the draw to his north and the faint ridge to his south that I referenced above.

Most of the mark ups on this map you can disregard.

[NYBackcountry]

The 1/3 is a good place to start but I’ve found it’s a moving line of travel based on terrain and ground growth/ground cover. Anywhere 1/3 from the top to 1/3 of the bottom seems to be the cruising routes in my area of WV. Those edge of the shelf’s are good but a lot of times a big buck will walk on side hill if it keeps them out of sight from hunters above. I sometimes find lightly worn trails just below those shelf’s. Don’t get so locked into that 1/3 that you overlook ground growth, those big bucks seem to prefer to move with certain features that once you find them will help you pin point things faster.

I notice this here as well, oddly enough, even without pressure from hunters above.

[thwack16]

I’m not a hill country guy to any extent, but remember a thread on here where someone was using caltopo functions to shade Some percentage of hills at the 1/3 line so that they could scout more efficiently. Search function should pull that thread. I remember thinking it was interesting.

[thwack16]

Wasn’t a hard search. Here you go:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23604&hilit=Caltopo+shade

[GreatWhiteOak]

The 1/3 is a good place to start but I’ve found it’s a moving line of travel based on terrain and ground growth/ground cover. Anywhere 1/3 from the top to 1/3 of the bottom seems to be the cruising routes in my area of WV. Those edge of the shelf’s are good but a lot of times a big buck will walk on side hill if it keeps them out of sight from hunters above. I sometimes find lightly worn trails just below those shelf’s. Don’t get so locked into that 1/3 that you overlook ground growth, those big bucks seem to prefer to move with certain features that once you find them will help you pin point things faster.

[highlight=yellow]

I noticed that in a spot I hunted this past season. I went in blind based off a topo sat on this bench for most of the day. It was really windy and cold I sat till about 3:30 and that was all I could take but when I got down I walked along the edge of the bench where it dropped off pretty step and found deer sign just down from the crest of that ridge. It was pretty thick I was surprised to say the least and deer that walked that trail that day I would've never seen so I can only imagine what went by without me even knowing. That bench was maybe 40-50 yds across. I was at a spot kind of close to the top of a hollow which I could see for the most part but still anything could've have slipped by without me see it.

[GreatWhiteOak]

Wasn’t a hard search. Here you go:

http://thehuntingbeast.com/viewtopic.ph ... topo+shade

That is awesome thanks for sharing. I have been on Caltopo for hours tonight I will definitely be using the feature as well.