Realistic expectations on public land

[thepennsylvanian]

I've been doing alot of thinking, walking and looking for setup locations to hunt this year. To be honest, I feel I have been in the wrong mindset. Ok, my scouting has been mostly my trying to find areas I think that will never see a hunter, that a buck would be frequenting, and have the right prevailing wind. I have come up with exactly zero locations that fit that standard. The problem with that standard is the three things I am looking for are almost impossible to get, on public land, with high pressure and consistently. So I'm trying to focus on finding bucks, period. Research the Cyber scouting topics for areas that are not flat, I've found that I may have some unique terrain. I'm not seeing the typical military crests, high ridge vantage points, and fingers that everyone is talking about. When I have found an area that looks like one of those, I find myself thinking there's no way a buck would bed there do to hunter intrusion, meaning it's too easy for a hunter to bump a buck there over and over. Over the past few weeks I've only found one rub line. Now, I've posted a camera up just to see what kind of movement I'm getting along that trail, so more to follow on that one. Otherwise, I'm really struggling to figure this out. Maybe, I'm just mentally unstable able to break the old way of thinking but I'm not connecting the dots.
I realize it only April, so maybe I don't know what I should be looking for right now?
Some more questions:
1) what are you guys looking for now, if you don't already know what bucks are doing?
2) guys who stick to public land, what are your expectations for hunter intrusion, realizing that never is unrealistic?
3) anyone from Washington county/ Southwest pa up for a workshop or one on one, I'm really in need of some help with this, shoot me a pm.

[<DK>]

Some more questions:
1) what are you guys looking for now, if you don't already know what bucks are doing? - Still searching or scouting whenever, wherever possible. Soon will be time to run cams and see antlers start growing. If you dont run cams then summer glassing is good technique and finding summer bedding for future seasons. Also figuring out what crops will planted where.
2) guys who stick to public land, what are your expectations for hunter intrusion, realizing that never is unrealistic? - Over time reading sign and pressure will become easier. Deciding on timing to hunt a spot can be important, not just for the deer but to beat the other hunters as well. It still takes time to learn how spots get pressured. Bad weather, weekdays and long walks can help. One issue I see w PA is plenty of access to spots so it can be tougher. Just remember the buck is where he is for a reason.

[Buckshot20]

To me, as far as hunter intrusion, it can be hard to find zero hunting pressure. To me, find a spot that doesn't have hunters camped out in it. We all stumble around and leave sign. There are spots I hunt that have climber marks of trees from probably 20yrs ago. Today's generation won't do the work.

Find areas that have bedding potential and monitor them. If you bust in there now no big deal.

[NYBackcountry]

For me, hill country has been he hardest to learn. With all of the elevation changes and cover it can be difficult, at least that's what i've found. I've made it a point to drive a little farther and go to some more inconvenient spots to get to swamps and marshes. I've got one hill country spot that I am working on right now but my focus goes to the other areas. I figure if I can learn the swamps and marshes really well, get to see some beds, learn to interpret sign it may help me with the hill country scenarios. I also look at it this way, I need to keep my confidence high during the season, so If I have a few swamps and marshes I really understand and feel good in I can always use those spots to fall back on. My plan is to throw a few sits at the hill country, see what I see but i dont expect much, however I always have the swamps and marshes to fall back on. Lastly, if you found one rub line and lots of hunter sign there may not be a lot of shooters in the area.

[tbunao]

Guys have already spoken on some of the points. One thing I will mention is the pressure for bow season is in pockets. I hardly see any in ny up until the latter part of October. All season you hear guys complain about it being to hot and deer don’t move they do when you are 50 yards away from where they spend all day

[fishlips]

This sounds like a thread I had started a few years back...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28649

More specific to your questions, on new properties I always start at transitions and then the further away or harder to reach those transitions are, generally the better chance that there is good bedding there. It's a very generic answer and it has been a long learning curve for me that I am still climbing, but it's the only way I can explain it.

As for intrusion, even the best spots you will get someone willing to go on a nasty hike. But the more out of the way spots you find, the less you will experience it. Again, all dependent too on how many hunters you have in your area. Some areas no matter what you do it seems like you can't get away from other hunters.

Not sure if you have them already, but Dan's scouting DVDs all put into visuals what I tried to explain in my first statement. They are absolutely worth the $.

[tgreeno]

Now I'm looking for the same thing I'm always looking for. Buck bedding & mature buck sign adjacent to that bedding. Then...a spot to ambush him!

High pressure land is tough!

IMO..you need to find those little pockets of maybe lesser pressure. Or maybe an overlooked spot. Like Dan has said many times..."If you hunt like everyone else, you'll have results like everyone else."

[justdirtyfun]

Lots of things reduce pressure on a small spot that could have a deer bed.

Briars, thick, unwalkable thickets are great to scout late winter. Crawl in and wear safety glasses if needed. It is a safe spot for deer 95 percent of the year.

Would a smart deer in PA bed watching hunter access? You bet. Figuring where to find that spot involves the common wind direction and an understanding of leave cover as the seasons change.

I also notice the beginning of an area is less pressured when you are forced to drive past to arrive at the parking lot. Walking back to what you drove past seems to have a mental block for people.

Are the deer there? If yes than scout,scout hunt. If not, move on.

[headgear]

I think in higher pressure situations where remote doesn't play as much of a role you have to think of those overlooked spots, if there are mature bucks in the areas they might be hiding right under your nose. Sometimes the bucks are monitoring you more than you think so spots along trails or close to parking & access. A small patch of cover or a mess of blowdowns in the right spot can be excellent bedding.

Sometimes you have to realize that the odds of a buck setting foot on the land you are hunting in daylight isn't going to happen outside of a hot doe pulling in a miracle buck once every 10 or 20 years. I have walked away from some beautiful looking properties because of the pressure. You will get a better feel for this the more you scout. Other times you have to realize that because of the pressure there might not be a lot of quality bedding, maybe only 1 or 2 spots per 1000 or more acres.

[MDSikajunkie]

Now I'm looking for the same thing I'm always looking for. Buck bedding & mature buck sign adjacent to that bedding. Then...a spot to ambush him!

High pressure land is tough!

IMO..you need to find those little pockets of maybe lesser pressure. Or maybe an overlooked spot. Like Dan has said many times..."If you hunt like everyone else, you'll have results like everyone else."

This is a great answer.

I hunt only highly pressured public land.
I scout for the things listed above.

There are always places that people don’t go. No matter how small. Especially if they don’t make any sense as long as they hold the cover and protection a buck needs.

I had to relearn the way I scouted. I spent 2 yrs observing other hunters access and hunting locations and made a map using this data. It’s enlightening what you see. Lidar maps will help you in areas topos don’t. I’m in MD near Annapolis. But hunt all over the state. Send me a message and I can explain more.

[thepennsylvanian]

Now I'm looking for the same thing I'm always looking for. Buck bedding & mature buck sign adjacent to that bedding. Then...a spot to ambush him!

High pressure land is tough!

IMO..you need to find those little pockets of maybe lesser pressure. Or maybe an overlooked spot. Like Dan has said many times..."If you hunt like everyone else, you'll have results like everyone else."

This is a great answer.

I hunt only highly pressured public land.
I scout for the things listed above.

There are always places that people don’t go. No matter how small. Especially if they don’t make any sense as long as they hold the cover and protection a buck needs.

I had to relearn the way I scouted. I spent 2 yrs observing other hunters access and hunting locations and made a map using this data. It’s enlightening what you see. Lidar maps will help you in areas topos don’t. I’m in MD near Annapolis. But hunt all over the state. Send me a message and I can explain more.

By not making sense, could this mean a buck would do something out of the ordinary like maybe in a spot that's on a windward face. I'm eliminating alot of what I think are overlooked areas because they are on a windward side of the hills. Am I wrong in doing this?

[thepennsylvanian]

So basically I've made a mental checklist for area that I will scout on foot. I feel like this is what's really limiting me because I've been veiwing the list as the rules. Here's what I go through to scout a spot.
1) leeward face
2) proximity to escape cover
3) promitiy to usual hunter access
4) accessibility to setup (wind/noise)

I don't really know how to evaluate the fourth well yet, as I really don't know how the winds move around the hills in my area yet. Also I've not decided if it's wise to cut my way to a stand or bedding area.

[Jonny]

I think in higher pressure situations where remote doesn't play as much of a role you have to think of those overlooked spots, if there are mature bucks in the areas they might be hiding right under your nose. Sometimes the bucks are monitoring you more than you think so spots along trails or close to parking & access. A small patch of cover or a mess of blowdowns in the right spot can be excellent bedding.

Sometimes you have to realize that the odds of a buck setting foot on the land you are hunting in daylight isn't going to happen outside of a hot doe pulling in a miracle buck once every 10 or 20 years. I have walked away from some beautiful looking properties because of the pressure. You will get a better feel for this the more you scout. Other times you have to realize that because of the pressure there might not be a lot of quality bedding, maybe only 1 or 2 spots per 1000 or more acres.

I had to walk away from 120 acres in the middle of 10 square miles of heavy QDM properties because no buck will go on it in daylight. Tried it for years and the only bucks we saw/shot were trailing a hot doe. No bedding, no reason for them to be there. Either can buy the lottery ticket, or go put some hours in for better odds. And nobody hunted the property besides us

[PK_]

Break the property into 40 acre sections and grid search every bit of it. If there is 0 big buck sign move to the next property and do the same. When you find a property with big buck sign, study and analyze it and figure out why the sign is where it is, what it is telling you and how to use it to your advantage.

Do this for several years and you will begin to see the patterns and be able to break down and pick apart properties with minimal or no boots on the ground.

[elk yinzer]

1) what are you guys looking for now, if you don't already know what bucks are doing?
2) guys who stick to public land, what are your expectations for hunter intrusion, realizing that never is unrealistic?
3) anyone from Washington county/ Southwest pa up for a workshop or one on one, I'm really in need of some help with this, shoot me a pm.

1) My scouting philosophy basically never changes. I map scout so that I have a plan when I go into an area. When I scout I am looking at the whole picture. My scouting is mostly geared toward finding good rut hunting locations, and that differs a little from guys hunting more early season beds/travel patterns. I am still targeting bedding areas, but I don't get real tied up in finding individual buck beds. Trying to pick up some of that, but my system kills deer I am happy with. There doesn't need to be a crap ton of deer for there to be an older buck or two. I don't even need to see sign of a big buck if I know the criteria is there to grow them old I can find some good rut spots. There needs to be escape cover or private land sanctuary nearby to get some age on deer through our hectic rifle season.

2) Hunter sign is an important piece of the puzzle but don't let it psych you out. Western PA is the most densely hunted public in the country. You are going to run into other hunters. That said you want to pattern other hunters to skirt them or use them to my advantage. Then too if there is sign of other hunters I try to take a guess if it is bow season or rifle season pressure. If it's a good spot and there is hunter sign, I will hunt it anyway. Not many people beat me in the tree in the morning, I get up early. In archery season I probably shine a guy once every few years and have had unwelcome company maybe 4 or 5 times in 20 years.

3) I am a few hours away but used to live in the Burgh so I have some familiarity with that area. If you want to bounce some places off me shoot me a pm I would be glad to take a look at some maps for you.