Scouting the hunters

[woody-san]

I know the concept of scouting the hunters is a point has been brought up before by those much more successful than me, but a recent scout really hammered it home.

I was scouting a promising looking piece of public land. This location is set up as such where I could skip past most of anything that was within 1/2 mile of the road. Just when I was getting within a few hundred yards of where I thought I'd find the good stuff, I came upon a hang on and sticks left in the tree from last fall. No problem, I was planning to hunt deeper in, anyway. I went deeper and sure enough I started finding the deer beds. First doe, and a couple I suspect a buck would use. But I didn't really see any hard buck evidence, no good rubs, not big tracks. I continued to an area where I felt deer bedding in the aforementioned beds might stage during legal shooting hours before going to nearby ag. I enter the potential staging area and see a ladder stand that was left up from last fall...then another ladder stand. I was deep enough in that I'd come within 1/4 mile of an ag field. It was pretty easy for someone to bring stands in through the field and into this spot. At that point, instead of throwing up my hands and trying to find that "un-pressured gem" I asked myself, "how would a deer avoid these." The bedding and food situation in this spot is too good not to have mature bucks. The beds are secure, tough to get within 50 yards of, with scant climbable trees within 75-100 yards of beds. I knew there was something in this area I'd yet to find and I guessed it had everything to do with dodging those ladders.

There is a substantial creek running along the bottom of a hill that goes up to ag fields. I decided to walk the creek to look for a crossing that would allow the deer to circle off to the West of the ladder stands. Sure enough, I found a hard crossing on the creek. I back tracked the trails and they circled out and around the ladders, well out of range. I kept walking the trails and on a cluster of small diameter trees I saw a groin height rub, then another, then another. Eventually the trail led to a clearly active buck bed that possessed hair and a large track. It made so much sense a buck would bed there. His route to the ag is such that it circles out and around the ladders. If the wind was right, he'd probably even smell if they were occupied. Also, he can stage and make a good part of his trek to the ag fields in relatively heavy cover. I fashioned a couple setups that were within a daylight travel radius, all of which actually had to be natural ground blind setups because there weren't any trees I could get in that didn't require some light de-forestation! Probably another reason he beds there!

So what did I learn? I learned that finding human sign can be just as valuable and helpful as finding deer sign. It used to irritate me finding these stands, and it still does bother me a little that hunters can't get their crap out of the public woods, but now it just narrows down where I have to look for my setup! I also learned, and this is something I've been thinking for a while, that there's a sweet spot for how deep you go in. A lot of times, going deeper is just getting closer to the next entrance. This buck is bedding between the two ladders and the hang-on I found. Finding that balance of deeper than most hunters will go and not getting too close to the next entrance might be the deal. Who knows if I'll kill or even see a buck here, but I left that day with a solid lead on an early season spot. To me, that's a success...I have a potential option for early season and the more of those I have the better my odds of punching my tag on a mature buck.

[wolverinebuckman]

I think you are on the money. I got out for some post season scouting in January right after a snowfall. Everywhere that I seen deer tracks leading to and from and congregating was between Hunter sign. Each ladder stand and hang on that I found, had a dead zone of no tracks around it.

[tgreeno]

I scout where I believe the mature bucks are. This is usually not where I'm going to find much , if any human sign. I think younger bucks will skirt around historically pressured areas.

But IMO...the mature bucks will try to just avoid those areas all together.

[Lockdown]

Great post, and nice work

That said don't overlook the stuff close to the road. Look at Octang's poll regarding kill site distance from parking. A large portion were killed close to the road. My '08 public buck crossed a tar road and walked 100 yards right to me on a morning hunt. Most guys don't hunt right by the road, and most big bucks don't bed by the hunters.

[woody-san]

I scout where I believe the mature bucks are. This is usually not where I'm going to find much , if any human sign. I think younger bucks will skirt around historically pressured areas.

But IMO...the mature bucks will try to just avoid those areas all together.

I'm with you...I'm usually trying to go where I don't think other guys will be, and thus where the mature bucks will be. I'll scout one draw and see a bunch of ribbons and other hunter sign, and a few hundred yards away I find the buck bedding...he doesn't hit that pressured draw in the daylight. In my state, and the areas I hunt, it seems it gets harder and harder to find a truly light pressure spot. Many of the spots I hunt aren't big enough to, say, just out walk everyone. There are gas roads or they're only a mile or mile and a half wide. It's almost like I have to expect the pressure fond sign of it, and figure out how the buck gets around it. I have one spot that I think doesn't see a lot of hunters, but the other ones, I really think I just need to game the pressure.

[woody-san]

Great post, and nice work

That said don't overlook the stuff close to the road. Look at Octang's poll regarding kill site distance from parking. A large portion were killed close to the road. My '08 public buck crossed a tar road and walked 100 yards right to me on a morning hunt. Most guys don't hunt right by the road, and most big bucks don't bed by the hunters.

Great point! I have some spots near the road at other public spots I hunt. Do you start close to the road first in your scouting or if you don't find what you want further in do you go close to the roads thereafter?

[Lockdown]

Great post, and nice work

That said don't overlook the stuff close to the road. Look at Octang's poll regarding kill site distance from parking. A large portion were killed close to the road. My '08 public buck crossed a tar road and walked 100 yards right to me on a morning hunt. Most guys don't hunt right by the road, and most big bucks don't bed by the hunters.

Great point! I have some spots near the road at other public spots I hunt. Do you start close to the road first in your scouting or if you don't find what you want further in do you go close to the roads thereafter?

I tend to head strait to whatever looks best on the map. Obviously I'll swing through noteworthy bedding on the way to it and back, just to try and get a feel for the property and sign. In my mind if you're at the "best" spot according to the map and nobody has encroached on it, then bingo. You're good to go. If it looks like people are messing it up, that's when I really put the cyber scouting to use in conjunction to where I find hunter sign. If you head to the best spot and it doesn't look good, AND there's no hunter sign, then chances are you're better off hunting elsewhere.

Most of the stuff I hunt is pretty low pressure and they aren't forced to find these unique unpressured areas by the roads and such. I kick potential parking lot bedding a lot with poor results. Why bed by all that commotion when you can bed where its more quiet and secure? Of course I do have one spot that is an exception, but when pressure starts they abandon it. It's a low spot in a CRP field and they don't have enough security cover.

I've got parcel by a larger city that gets pressured pretty hard. I don't hunt it much because of that. In fact I didn't hunt it at all last year. Anyway, after seeing all the stands out there, I'm pretty sure the biggest bucks around are hanging close to the roads. That and in the little fence line hidey holes and pockets of cover that look like nothing to most people. This spot is right on a tar road and people only park in the parking areas, then head to the main body of trees. I found stands WAY in the back where I didn't expect them. I'm pretty sure the bucks are bedding in between the parking areas. I've got an observation stand that I've wanted to sit for a while now to put my theory for this parcel to the test, but the stars haven't aligned. I just don't have the confidence that it holds mature bucks consistently because I'm positive it gets hammered with gun hunters. I flat out don't have time to put into this tricky new spot, so I always end up observing my more promising spots which are also closer to home.

For me I don't look at an aerial and say "Yep there's going to be parking lot bedding right here.". If boots on the ground shows pressure is high, then IMHO the liklihood of parking lot bedding skyrockets because close to the road might be the only place he feels safe! If pressure is low, then he has lots of options and can bed where he wants.

I read a comment of Dan's recently that applies here. "If a property has big bucks, it also has overlooked spots.". So if pressure is really high, but you KNOW there are shooters there, it's boots on the ground until you find his hide out. You have to do what your title says and "scout the hunters".

[Lockdown]

I'd like to add that if I'm cyber scouting a marsh and see a point or island near the road with trails that look like "spokes on the wheel". Then yes it would absolutely be a priority. Even if I don't know anything about hunter pressure or buck quality. Spokes on the wheel is bedding every time. Just keep in mind it could be doe bedding too, especially if those spokes are heavy.

[Evanszach7]

Nice find. Glad to hear you think a bit outside the box and go with the ground setup. That’s something I’d ruled out in the past, especially in areas littered with 8-10’ saplings. In heavy pressured areas I’ve found a lot of good staging areas with those setups. I’ve also seen deer look up just before moving out of those areas quite a bit too, if they even do before dark.

[wolverinebuckman]

I'd like to add that if I'm cyber scouting a marsh and see a point or island near the road with trails that look like "spokes on the wheel"

I like "spokes on the wheel" spots. I have a few spots i thought might be bedding from seeing this on mapping (i love marshes!) One so far has lead me to one of the sweetest overlooked spots i have found yet. BIG BUCK sign!! Cant wait til October.

[Evanszach7]

Same scouting strategy and experience with me too between roadside bedding and pressure. Roadside scouting is more of a Hail Mary for me, but maybe it shouldn’t be because 2 of my primary annual beds are 20 yards from the road between parking lots. A few commonalities between them: no terrain features funnel movement here, heavy pressure gun and bow areas, does cross over and bed on private within 100 yards (aerial scout neighboring properties), food sources and water within 100 yards, thick cover makes them almost impossible for tree stands.

Even though all of these are important, the one that stood out to me was the close proximity to doe bedding and escape routes. These guys can scent check a lot without moving.

With these areas one strategy that’s worked but isn’t exactly “brotherly”.... I’ve got an older brother who hunts 3-4 times per year and likes to hunt how non-beasts hunt. He’s also got the big brother mentality of he inherently knows more... These bucks can see you park and have expectations of seeing you walk into the woods. I set my stands 15-20 yards from the truck. I only hunt these stands 1-2 times per year. When I do, I take my bro and send him to an ok area where he’ll see something he’d be happy to shoot. I hang back beside the truck for 30 minutes. Take 30 minutes to move 20 yards to my tree. Have told him 2 of 5 hunts it was dumb luck. Hopefully his ego keeps him from catching on.

Great post, and nice work

That said don't overlook the stuff close to the road. Look at Octang's poll regarding kill site distance from parking. A large portion were killed close to the road. My '08 public buck crossed a tar road and walked 100 yards right to me on a morning hunt. Most guys don't hunt right by the road, and most big bucks don't bed by the hunters.

Great point! I have some spots near the road at other public spots I hunt. Do you start close to the road first in your scouting or if you don't find what you want further in do you go close to the roads thereafter?

I tend to head strait to whatever looks best on the map. Obviously I'll swing through noteworthy bedding on the way to it and back, just to try and get a feel for the property and sign. In my mind if you're at the "best" spot according to the map and nobody has encroached on it, then bingo. You're good to go. If it looks like people are messing it up, that's when I really put the cyber scouting to use in conjunction to where I find hunter sign. If you head to the best spot and it doesn't look good, AND there's no hunter sign, then chances are you're better off hunting elsewhere.

Most of the stuff I hunt is pretty low pressure and they aren't forced to find these unique unpressured areas by the roads and such. I kick potential parking lot bedding a lot with poor results. Why bed by all that commotion when you can bed where its more quiet and secure? Of course I do have one spot that is an exception, but when pressure starts they abandon it. It's a low spot in a CRP field and they don't have enough security cover.

I've got parcel by a larger city that gets pressured pretty hard. I don't hunt it much because of that. In fact I didn't hunt it at all last year. Anyway, after seeing all the stands out there, I'm pretty sure the biggest bucks around are hanging close to the roads. That and in the little fence line hidey holes and pockets of cover that look like nothing to most people. This spot is right on a tar road and people only park in the parking areas, then head to the main body of trees. I found stands WAY in the back where I didn't expect them. I'm pretty sure the bucks are bedding in between the parking areas. I've got an observation stand that I've wanted to sit for a while now to put my theory for this parcel to the test, but the stars haven't aligned. I just don't have the confidence that it holds mature bucks consistently because I'm positive it gets hammered with gun hunters. I flat out don't have time to put into this tricky new spot, so I always end up observing my more promising spots which are also closer to home.

For me I don't look at an aerial and say "Yep there's going to be parking lot bedding right here.". If boots on the ground shows pressure is high, then IMHO the liklihood of parking lot bedding skyrockets because close to the road might be the only place he feels safe! If pressure is low, then he has lots of options and can bed where he wants.

I read a comment of Dan's recently that applies here. "If a property has big bucks, it also has overlooked spots.". So if pressure is really high, but you KNOW there are shooters there, it's boots on the ground until you find his hide out. You have to do what your title says and "scout the hunters".

[JAK]

I've had some decent luck finding good bedding on subtel points with small trees withing 100 yards or so of hunter sign. It's sort of amazing that the deer know that spot is being hunted and just change there ways just far enough. But for the most part I'm far enough in or in nasty enough that nobody is in it.

[Boogieman1]

I'm not positive who said it but believe it was PK. But a method I have since adapted to is zig zagging a property to see how there avoiding the pressure. I don't have huge parcels where u can simple out walk folks but on small tracks this method works great especially if u know where the othere hunters are set up.

[woody-san]

Same scouting strategy and experience with me too between roadside bedding and pressure. Roadside scouting is more of a Hail Mary for me, but maybe it shouldn’t be because 2 of my primary annual beds are 20 yards from the road between parking lots. A few commonalities between them: no terrain features funnel movement here, heavy pressure gun and bow areas, does cross over and bed on private within 100 yards (aerial scout neighboring properties), food sources and water within 100 yards, thick cover makes them almost impossible for tree stands.

Even though all of these are important, the one that stood out to me was the close proximity to doe bedding and escape routes. These guys can scent check a lot without moving.

With these areas one strategy that’s worked but isn’t exactly “brotherly”.... I’ve got an older brother who hunts 3-4 times per year and likes to hunt how non-beasts hunt. He’s also got the big brother mentality of he inherently knows more... These bucks can see you park and have expectations of seeing you walk into the woods. I set my stands 15-20 yards from the truck. I only hunt these stands 1-2 times per year. When I do, I take my bro and send him to an ok area where he’ll see something he’d be happy to shoot. I hang back beside the truck for 30 minutes. Take 30 minutes to move 20 yards to my tree. Have told him 2 of 5 hunts it was dumb luck. Hopefully his ego keeps him from catching on.

That's awesome! I hope you and your decoy...errr...I mean brother have many more years of hunts together!

Good stuff on the commonalities of your roadside spots. Makes a lot of sense!

[woody-san]

I've got parcel by a larger city that gets pressured pretty hard. I don't hunt it much because of that. In fact I didn't hunt it at all last year. Anyway, after seeing all the stands out there, I'm pretty sure the biggest bucks around are hanging close to the roads. That and in the little fence line hidey holes and pockets of cover that look like nothing to most people. This spot is right on a tar road and people only park in the parking areas, then head to the main body of trees. I found stands WAY in the back where I didn't expect them. I'm pretty sure the bucks are bedding in between the parking areas. I've got an observation stand that I've wanted to sit for a while now to put my theory for this parcel to the test, but the stars haven't aligned. I just don't have the confidence that it holds mature bucks consistently because I'm positive it gets hammered with gun hunters. I flat out don't have time to put into this tricky new spot, so I always end up observing my more promising spots which are also closer to home.

For me I don't look at an aerial and say "Yep there's going to be parking lot bedding right here.". If boots on the ground shows pressure is high, then IMHO the liklihood of parking lot bedding skyrockets because close to the road might be the only place he feels safe! If pressure is low, then he has lots of options and can bed where he wants.

I read a comment of Dan's recently that applies here. "If a property has big bucks, it also has overlooked spots.". So if pressure is really high, but you KNOW there are shooters there, it's boots on the ground until you find his hide out. You have to do what your title says and "scout the hunters".

Man are your comments appropriate after this past weekend! Lots of parallels between your comments and my scout. So, I went back out to that location to do another scout of ground I'd yet to cover. I went back to that bed I mentioned to finalize my kill site and show a good hunting buddy. On the way in I saw giant tracks heading to that bed and my excitement went to a 10! Then as I got within 100 yards of that bed, at a spot I thought about setting up, someone hung a stand. In the 8 days since I had found that bed, someone went in, did a lot of trimming and hung a small hang-on. The buck is there, now, but will he be in September? If he is there, I need to decide if I just cut bait on this spot or hunt 50 yards closer to the bed than the hang on, in one of my ground blinds. It's an opening weekend of the season sit, and then probably not again. Seeing someone put the effort to put that hang on up .75 miles back in, there's probably a good chance we'd both be heading back there on the opener. I would just have to set up earlier and closer if the spot is worth it to me.

Further on into the scout I found several other stands. In all for both scouts, I found 3 ladders, 3 hang ons, and 1 tripod, some in areas that we're tough to get to where I may not expect to find stands. This is definitely high pressure and it's much closer to cities than the other spots I hunt...I should've known. That said, there are big deer, the sign doesn't lie and that makes it worth some extra attention to shuck and jive the pressure. I found what looks like a safe zone that kind of runs right in between of all these stands, well out of bow range, that goes right to ag fields. In the safe zone, there really isn't anywhere good to put a ladder or a climber, and prevailing winds blow right from AG to beds. I found many groin-to-sternum height rubs and followed the rubline back to a buck bed, complete with...a dead buck! Yep...a dead 130-140" 10 pointer with a 21" inside spread was laying dead in a bed at the end of the rubline. So it stinks the buck is dead, but finding him made it clear how he and the other deer were evading the pressure and really cut down a larger property to this low pressure zone. I made a set in a nasty looking, multi trunk tree about 60 yards off the bed. If a buck returns, and I can verify via trailcam, I'll have something for him.

So my next step is to try and find some of the less obvious bedding locations; close to the road, close to the parking lot, smaller overlooked chunks that "are too small to hold bucks", etc. Like I mentioned there area is obviously growing and holding good deer and all the stands I find are just narrowing it down for me.