Looking for some advice/help on a new property

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whitetail_addict
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Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby whitetail_addict » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:20 pm

Okay, so to make the intro short, I went on a 2 am shining trip for the of it a couple months back and discovered a buck that immediately got my interest. A wide old (I'm guessing 4-year-old) about a quarter mile from another property I've been hunting the last few years. I've been shining him there in that same alfalfa field at different times of the night now ever since. I ended up asking for and gaining permission to the 40 acre piece. I'm not sure why the first pic didn't upload like the second but nonetheless it's a zoomed out overview of the property and the surrounding habitat. The red lines in the first pic are logging trails through the property.

[img][IMG]http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah36/zachaustin86/HB1_zpsiarzagb9.jpg[/img][/img]

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Having never been on the property before I waited for a good rain day which I got a couple weeks ago and took the opportunity to walk the entire property and pick a couple potential kill spots for this buck... IF, of course, he sticks around once the velvet peels. I wanted to be prepared just in case he does stick around. As seen in the second pic, The alfalfa field to the north is where I've been shining him all late summer from the road to the east. Other than the first couple times I've made it a point to only shine as a quick driveby to avoid spooking him any more than necessary. I light the field up, see if he's there or not and keep on driving. Upon my rain day of scouting, I found the apple tree on the south side of the alfalfa with a heavy dirt trail under it leading down to the lowland marsh/cattail area in the yellow. There are several other trails coming out to that alfalfa field but the best seem to come from the yellow area which also appears to be the best bedding on the property. The rest of the 40 acres is moderately open hardwoods with a ridge running from the SE corner to the NW corner along the south side of the marsh/cattail area. There are a few good oaks scattered throughout which may come into play at some point but for now I'm leaving that out.

Basically, I seen hardly any new or old deer sign in the hardwoods as was expected, I more or less wanted to get a good feel for the property. The transition along the south side of the cattails had a few rubs. I followed those east to the east side of the water shown in the cattails where there is what appeared to be a manmade embankment running from the south of the cattails to the NE corner of the cattails. On that embankment in tall grass I located a few beds located in a cluster. I've seen little to no does shining this area all summer and usually 5-10 bucks a night. With that, I suspect this was a bachelor group of bucks. It wasn't that "WOW" bedding but seeing as how bachelor groups will bed like does this time of the year I figured it made sense. It wasn't quite enough to pull me in though.

I further explored the swampy area to the east of the cattails and checked out some lone trees in there. That's when I found what I was looking for. The red pin marks the lone suspected big buck bed under a lone tree. The bed was huge. There wasn't much for trails heading east from the bed which is maybe 80 yards from the road. The area between the bed and road is thick enough to not see from the road so I don't think the road there bothers the deer. The main trail is marked with the red line(s) which made sense to me seeing as how the water in the marsh, and the apple tree and alfalfa field are in the direction the trail goes. The area in blue had several trees with old rubs and the main trail going right through them... not one tree was close to big enough for a stand, however.

I found what I wanted but struggled for a tree to hunt out of. The entire area in yellow is basically a big pothole sloping down to the cattails so the area between the yellow and green lines is basically a big sloping hill all the way along the north and south sides of the cattails. In addition, the strip of trees/brush on that slope north of the staging area is very thick. It's also got a scrap pile and some rock piles that help act as a wall between the house/yard area and the staging area. With the area lacking good trees for a stand I decided my only option to hunt this spot would be to walk in and sit on a rock in the weeds. It may sound a bit sketchy but it was really the only option to hunt that staging area and with the vegetation and brush I actually think I'll have fair cover there in early season. I can also overlook that red trail where it splits from a little elevation since I'll be on that sloping hillside. My planned access is the light blue line and don't be fooled by the close proximity to the house as all the sign is in that area and the brush and slope literally act as a wall between the two areas.

So if you're still with me here haha, I've been thinking a lot about my setup lately. The bed is under a lone tree in the swamp area... If indeed that is the bed of the buck I've been watching should I think this is a not-wind-specific bed since I'm seeing him there all the time regardless of wind? The been isn't really on a hard transition so I'm hoping it's not wind specific but am curious what others would think...?

Secondly, I've been thinking a lot about evening thermals in the early season, which is when I intend to hunt this, in this spot. In my mind I'm thinking a south wind, ideally a SE wind would be best to hunt it if it is not-wind-specific in order to blow my wind down along that slope and away from the bed. It seems to me like any other wind would either hit the buck or pool or swirl down in that big pothole area. But even on that SE wind I'm worried if it's not really strong that my scent may fall with the falling thermals in the evening and maybe even suck to that cattail/marsh area with the water present. Is it reasonable to think water thermals and that sucking action would pull my scent in from 40 or 50 yards away from the corner of the cattails?

Should I wait for a strong SE wind in hopes of falling thermals in the evening not being a factor? Again I'll be sitting on that sloping hillside on the north side of the staging area so if thermals drop my scent would be heading downhill. Should I hope to get that shot before he hits that fine line spot where my thermals might drop to him along his trail? Or are there other suggestions for hunting it on different wind directions in this pothole/bowl area???

I know it was a long post but trying to get all the details in one post. Any suggestions or discussion are welcome.

Thanks!


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Jlaneb
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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby Jlaneb » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:28 pm

Hello!

I'm new, so take everything with a grain of salt. First, what an awesome post! I had to reply and get it back up on the boards, this needs the attention of other Beasts. It seems like you've done all the right things so far.

To answer your questions:

1) Is it a wind specific bed?
As you say, it isn't right now, but that doesn't mean it won't become one by opening day. I would consider putting a cam on the NE corner of the Cattails just outside of that bucks staging area. You can make sure it's your buck, see when he's bedding there, and do it all without creeping in on his bed to swap cards (ok it's still close, but it's not ON the bed.)

2) Your stand issue. Consider a pop-up blind or a leafy suit/natural blind combo. If that camera confirms the buck is moving from bed to staging area on the corner of the cattails it would be a great place to drop a pop-up blind, the the property owner allows.

3) Wind. You have a target buck and an active bed in late summer, that's more than most of us. DON'T SCREW IT UP! Hunt it like he can smell you from 10 miles away. Wait for perfect wind. The time to be aggressive is when it's time to make the shot, not in choosing which day to hunt the stand.

Good luck!
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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:25 pm

Wind specific beds are beds that have some sort of vantage point. If there is cover 360 degrees around the bed, there is really no wind advantage. The wind advantage comes when the buck gets up and can use the thermals to scent check the farm, the field and anything else above him as he travels. The access you have is awesome. But the thermals ...yeah, you would need to wait for a windy day, with sustained winds. OR you would need to figure out when the trail hooks to the field, can you get on the opposite side so you thermals would drop below the deer as he moves?

The other thing to consider is if the swamp / cattails will have any thermal affect. I would definitely drop some milk weed on an evening further down and see what you get. Not sure the cattails / water are large enough to create swirling or affect the pull of the wind. If the hill drops on side you are hunting, into the cattails and then on the other side its a hill again, the valley of cattails could create a lot of swirling winds. Basically the cattails and water a

Its interesting...because if you could figure out if he is back to his bed before daylight or not, the access from the road would work well for a morning hunt. Or maybe its too thick to shoot. Or even doing the same blue line hunt in the morning.

How far is the bed from the field? How far is the blue line from the bed?

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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby whitetail_addict » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:16 am

If I didn't mention it already, I placed a camera just south of that apple tree off the field edge on that rainy day of scouting. I didn't want to intrude any closer to check it so that's as close as I felt it needed to be. I have yet to check it but did shine the buck there again the other night so I'm confident I've got his picture. As for the distance of the blue line (staging area edge) and the buck bed, Id say the west side of the staging area is maybe 150 yards from the field maybe less and the bed is about 200 or so.

My only option to get below that hillside to avoid the thermal issue would be to sit right in the edge of the cattails. That would also put me about 40-50 yards further away from the bed.

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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby whitetail_addict » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:21 am

I like the idea of the ground blind but seeing as how it would be so close to the staging area and such short notice for him to get used to it I do not want to risk tipping him off. It's hard to explain but my spot is fairly covered up so I'm content with not being in a blind.

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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby whitetail_addict » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:25 am

I like the idea of getting the cam a little closer to confirm its him but would need another rain day and the right wind for me to make that move. At this point though I want to confirm, I think it's best I take the chance he's there.

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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby whitetail_addict » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:14 pm

If I didn't mention it already, I placed a camera just south of that apple tree off the field edge on that rainy day of scouting. I didn't want to intrude any closer to check it so that's as close as I felt it needed to be. I have yet to check it but did shine the buck there again the other night so I'm confident I've got his picture. As for the distance of the blue line (staging area edge) and the buck bed, Id say the west side of the staging area is maybe 150 yards from the field maybe less and the bed is about 200 or so.

My only option to get below that hillside to avoid the thermal issue would be to sit right in the edge of the cattails. That would also put me about 40-50 yards further away from the bed.

I like the idea of the ground blind but seeing as how it would be so close to the staging area and such short notice for him to get used to it I do not want to risk tipping him off. It's hard to explain but my spot is fairly covered up so I'm content with not being in a blind.

I like the idea of getting the cam a little closer to confirm its him but would need another rain day and the right wind for me to make that move. At this point though I want to confirm, I think it's best I take the chance he's there.
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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby whitetail_addict » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:21 pm

Went shining again tonight hoping to see this buck in hard horn. I did shine him again twice an hour apart in that alfalfa field. This time with only a couple other deer in the field with him both times. All summer this field has been filled with up to 10 different bucks at a time. He is still in full velvet but I suspect the bachelor groups that were there all summer are breaking away. I like the fact that he's still there and I didn't see many others though. It's a sign to me that that's his area and he isn't leaving it quite yet. Better yet, I watched him cross the road back into the alfalfa from the other side the second time I went by and work his way down the edge of the field and work a scrape. I'm hoping this too is a sign that he intends to stick around a while yet.
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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby Motivated » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:30 pm

You do not need more camera data at this point. I would not risk bumping him out of the property just to get a photo. It sounds as though you already have confirmation that he is the buck you are after.

Probably are looking at a ground hunt, unless you can quietly set up an eight or ten foot folding ladder on the edge and reach over the brush. If you have and ethical range, then it may be very low impact and afford you multiple sits without him being the wiser. He is used to some human noise coming from that direction. You could even pick a mowing day to cover your setup noise. It may not even be an option due to the range but I thought I would throw it out there.

Is that a small creek or drainage that crosses the road just south of the farm and his bedding flowing towards the cattails? Is there enough water and brush clearance you use that drainage for clean access to the cattails to cover ground scent? If you could then you have more options.


You want to be as low impact as possible with access so you have multiple chances at this buck, since you will be on the ground and may not have a clean shooting lane.

Windy and rainy days may be your friend. Good luck!

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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:44 pm

Your biggest issue at this point is figuring out your thermals and wind. I would be concerned about swirling winds. If there is no swirling... in this situation, there seems to be limited options. I would really be setting up to kill this buck "off thermal" meaning, shooting him left of you before he crosses in front of you. Which means a quartering tp shot. Or you wait for a really windy day.

And 40-50yds from the bed, you still might be able to do it. But that also means crossing the runs to get to where you need to be.

Then there is the whole thing if the buck will even be there opening day...but the rubs its showing post velvet...so thats a good sign.
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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:09 am

I would lean towards setting up just northwest of his staging area (but still within the yellow circle) for an evening hunt with a S or SE wind. Not only do you have his staging but the cattail edge and farm create a nice travel corridor from his bed to the apple tree. That would be my first crack at him based off what you have shared. My guess is that he will hit the apple tree just at dark then continue to the alfalfa.
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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby headgear » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:55 am

As mentioned already thermals and swirling wind are going to be your biggest concern, I like the S or SE wind you are looking at, that should keep swirling to a minimum but those thermals are going to be tricky. If you have a small hill or ridge on both sides of the marsh that is going to funnel a lot of scent down to him, the only thing that could save you is that open water, that might suck a lot of thermals to itself and then up so if you can hug that water it would help, however from what I understand it might not be that easy to do. Can you post a topo of the area, that might help give us a better idea of the thermals.

I've had situations where if I setup in one tree my thermals pull towards the buck, however if I setup 10 yards away behind a small hump the thermals are pulled behind me into a different low spot. You might be in a tricky situation like that but there is always a way to beat the odds.
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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:04 am

headgear wrote:As mentioned already thermals and swirling wind are going to be your biggest concern, I like the S or SE wind you are looking at, that should keep swirling to a minimum but those thermals are going to be tricky. If you have a small hill or ridge on both sides of the marsh that is going to funnel a lot of scent down to him, the only thing that could save you is that open water, that might suck a lot of thermals to itself and then up so if you can hug that water it would help, however from what I understand it might not be that easy to do. Can you post a topo of the area, that might help give us a better idea of the thermals.

I've had situations where if I setup in one tree my thermals pull towards the buck, however if I setup 10 yards away behind a small hump the thermals are pulled behind me into a different low spot. You might be in a tricky situation like that but there is always a way to beat the odds.


That would be my concern as well. Sometimes it can be difficult to get a sustained 10-15mph wind all the way to dark.

But sometimes, you just have to go for it and learn from it. You can sit around and wonder about all the what ifs OR wait for the S SE wind, grab your milkweed and roll with it. If the thermals are all wacky...well, now you know now. You will have to move.

I know when I am hunting an apple that is below me, I will try to move off it so that when my thermals drop, I will catch the deer before it gets to my thermals. Its cutting it close.
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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby whitetail_addict » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:19 am

If when I check that camera it confirms that he's bedding close in that swamp all signs are leading to me waiting for that SE wind, preferably 10-15 mph but I will holing a lighter wind too as I want the first best crack at him and don't want to miss the early season window on him if he moves. While thermals seem to be the biggest concern I will have to play it just like a " just off" wind and hope for the thermals sinking "just off" his trail to where I could shoot him before he hits them.

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Re: Looking for some advice/help on a new property

Unread postby BACKSTRAPALIEN » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:22 pm

I'm very interested to see how this pans out. I wouldn't necessarily wait on a SE for this set up. I would think any southerly would do the trick as long as it was blowing hard enough to counter the falling thermals. SE would actually be blowing right toward the apple tree which could jam you up for future attempts if he happens to come from an unexpected direction, like around the NW side of the cattails. Good luck! I think we're gonna see him on the ground.

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