Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

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Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby Nicholas buck » Tue May 03, 2016 7:47 pm

I read an interesting thread on here a few weeks back about converging ridges, since then i have found a potential spot where these tactics can be applied.

Still newbie to this..... I am trying to learn more about setting up and hunting on converging ridges or some people call them thermal hubs. When cyber scouting how do you breakdown the topo map and identify if the area is worth scouting and where are the high percentage spots are to check out when scouting boots on the ground. When you you want to hunt these areas, i would guess during rut but early season would be good to here if the acorns are falling.

What tactics do people use for this kind of land formation as far as the stand setup? The dominant wind in this area is NE or SW.

Here is the topo map image attached and the potential area circled in black. This is the first time on the HB i have tried to upload a image. Let me know if you can see it ok or not.

http://imageshack.com/a/img923/9357/cVNs11.png


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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby PK_ » Wed May 04, 2016 3:58 am

Thermal hub is a little more than just converging ridges, you need a high crows foot in the right spot for it to be setup correctly. It is a nuance that even experienced map readers can have trouble recognizing.

But converging ridges can also be great without the thermal hub factor. Bucky has posted some great info over the years on finding, accessing and hunting these setups.

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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby ZSV » Wed May 04, 2016 4:20 am

I'm still a newbie to beast hunting also, but I'm not sure how much mature buck activity you would see there right off of the main human trail with a possible secondary trail (green dotted line) following the ridge. Just something else I pay attention to when looking at topos...

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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby Nicholas buck » Wed May 04, 2016 4:03 pm

PK thanks for the heads up, I was under the impression they were the same thing. Can you expand a little more on this for me. What is the major difference between a crows foot and converging ridges, what topo features separate the two apart.

If anyone has a good pic to share that help me the most.
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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby seazofcheeze » Thu May 05, 2016 2:04 am

Nicholas buck wrote:PK thanks for the heads up, I was under the impression they were the same thing. Can you expand a little more on this for me. What is the major difference between a crows foot and converging ridges, what topo features separate the two apart.

If anyone has a good pic to share that help me the most.


I believe a crows foot is usually found at the origin on a drainage or creek. The "crows foot" shape is comprised of several points dropping down towards a common bottom. The "toes" on the crows foot are the drainages or valleys and the space between the toes are the points. I believe the common area where the "toes" meet is considered a "thermal hub" because that is where the thermals will collect/settle from
the surrounding drainages.

In contrast, a converging hub (different than a thermal hub) as described in the mapping trophy whitetails book is an area where multiple ridges (as opposed to multiple points) intersect. For this feature, I think of spokes on a wheel on a common elevation. It doesn't have to be exactly the same obviously, but compared to the crows foot, a converging hub can be relatively flatter.

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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby Hawthorne » Thu May 05, 2016 2:19 am

I have a thermal hub on my 23 acres. Its a spot where 3 ridges meet in aand the bottom is Brushy tree line. Every year their are tore up high rubs in it. I still haven't quite figured it out tho I've only hunted it 2 seasons. Last year in the morning I saw a nice buck coming out of there with an east wind when the thermals were starting rise in early November. Guess where im gonna be next year with an east wind in early November?

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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby checkerfred » Thu May 05, 2016 6:18 am

I'd also love to see a picture of the crow's foot.....I think I've been confusing the two
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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby PK_ » Thu May 05, 2016 11:12 am

This link should bring you right to where he gets into the convex hubs and high crows feet, but Pay attention to all posts by autumn ninja in this thread, lots of great info:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19217&start=30
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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby Nicholas buck » Sun May 08, 2016 9:59 am

Thanks PK
That's a great thread, once again I feel like I am reading a book on hunting that I had to dish out some $$$ for.

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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby Motivated » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:12 am

Bump after watching Joe's portion of the new hill bedding video. Well worth it, even if you believe you have read it all here. Still things that jump out at you.

Great post above Seaz, with clearing up terminology. PK linked a great one as well.

Some photobucket loss, but some great maps remain. I thought I would bump it while they are still around.
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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby Grasshopper » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:49 am

When I first started out on the site I went through all of the all time beast tactical threads. When I found the thread pk linked, I immediately searched and read all of autumn ninjas posts. I know he's not on here anymore, but I sure wish he was still.
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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby <DK> » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:34 am

Nicholas buck, I wanted to start a thread as well but ill juts post here.

The first time iv heard of the thermal hubs was Joe on the HC Bucks 2, then I read through Autumn Ninja's posts that PK shared. I think that im starting to see them now that my eyes are open. Im sure there many in the woods we cant see on a map, the crows feet terrain feature is apparently the optimal setup to be a true hub? Iv pulled up some examples that I want opinions on. All of these spots hold buck bedding, not necessarily shooter bucks though. Are these what I should focus on when seeking terrain features to identify suspected thermal hubs?

Image
Image

This spot had me scratching my head to the point I messaged Dan and a few others for opinions. The wind conditions in this spot are a hunters nightmare! The sign was decent but the main issue I had was WHY it was there and what i was really looking at? I think bc it has such a powerful thermal / wind affect that they can survive. There is even a hunter w a permanent stand very close by.
Image

I shot a buck in this spot and I always look for this bowl type ridge system. Im not sure this is classified as a text book thermal hub, though there is definitely something going on here. This spot was only huntable for morning hunts. Every single evening sit I was busted...When I finally started hunting mornings ~ I had deer walk by in bow range every sit, multiple bucks of all calibers, all season... I shot my buck here opening day so every sit after was just learning and observing. I play by the rules but it was a real test watching quality bucks walk by every time out. Blue is me, red is the buck, orange is bedding.
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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby <DK> » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am

I really dont want this to get off topic but I also have a theory about rutting bucks and thermal hubs. Iv shared this w JoeRE bc hes seen some similar results. Im curious what others might have seen. I may start a thread for earliest rut bucks anyones seen and their regions...

In 2 of these spots just shared iv seen 3.5yr+ old bucks scent checking, pushing mature does out of there beds right at the beginning of pre rut (in my state). One time she still had not weened her little ones yet and he was still running her around in front of me (Oct 10th). So my theory is ~ the mature buck in a a given area will scent check or push the oldest, mature doe closest to his primary area at the beginning of pre rut. Only then to lay off a bit until she actually starts going into heat. At that point I start seeing smaller bucks running does alot until late Oct - Nov starts kicking things up. Almost like she has to kick him and put him in check bc hes acting like a teenager but I think he does it bc he sees her everyday and he is gearing up for his oct patterns. Kind of like prep or finding the mature local hot doe early, then change his pattern, only then to return weeks later. In a way its like he knows when to be back, when she will be ready. Or hes getting her scent locked into his database so he can walk through the thermal hub and easily determine where she is or how close to estrous she is.

To add to that theory, maybe my answer lies w the Thermal Hubs? These bucks were doing this in daylight, midday, leaves are still green & still little humid some days. After both of these instances the bucks werent seen again in daylight until Oct 20 or later. One of those bucks didnt show in daylight until 2 days before rifle season. They had to feel safe doing this early season, during daylight so I wondered why?

Bc of this idea, iv considered a few times intentionally setting up between doe bedding and mature buck bedding sooner than later in the season.
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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby UofLbowhunter » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:37 am

Im really starting to get a lil confused, i was thinking i had a good graps on the thermal hub and convection hub thing. I too like many others have some questions about joeRe discusion on the dvd but was waiting for everybody to get a chance to see it. I hope someone get a good thread goin!

Darknight. In your last map pic. You where the blue line. Was you set up for the leewind of the day and bucks where coming up out of the hub in the mid morning and later times or just early morning? And im asuming those orange circle were doe bedding? Some seem low to me but doe bedding would explain it.
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Re: Thermal Hubs/Converging Ridges

Unread postby <DK> » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:37 am

UofLbowhunter wrote:Im really starting to get a lil confused, i was thinking i had a good graps on the thermal hub and convection hub thing. I too like many others have some questions about joeRe discusion on the dvd but was waiting for everybody to get a chance to see it. I hope someone get a good thread goin!

Darknight. In your last map pic. You where the blue line. Was you set up for the leewind of the day and bucks where coming up out of the hub in the mid morning and later times or just early morning? And im asuming those orange circle were doe bedding? Some seem low to me but doe bedding would explain it.


Well man I think most of us are newbs to this... I also think that we all absorbed Joes words slightly different from one another. As far as I know there is nowhere to find info about this stuff so for me this is all real time learning and speculation. Aside from few articles, some parachuting wind tunnel info and Dan this is all I know. My post is geared towards asking others if these are some spots. All I did was compare Joes map example to locations iv come acrossed. PK mentioned "crows foot" Autumn Ninja talked about chain ridge systems w a hub right in the center, surrounded by bedding areas. I view my first 3 examples as "Mini-Hubs" or maybe these are "Thermal Hubs" but id have to expand the map further to explore that further like Ninja showed...

Im glad you asked about the last one bc that one stays w me. This was my 1-2 season trying to apply beast tactics so I didnt realize all this back then BUT this unique ridge design always stayed w me. Iv tried to replicate it other places to the point of trying side-by-side mapping or overlay. The only issue is I didnt know what I was really searching for other than the best hunting iv ever experienced. I chalked it up as just great rut funneling until HC Bucks 2 came out. I just kept seeing bucks there at all times of the season and I was the only one who wanted to hunt it. When I walked in this spot first time in Aug, I took the same route as the day I hunted it w a stand. I was literally thinking Dan says bucks move in daylight around bedding areas then bam I bumped him out of that bottom. Midday, both of us shocked. So I set up right where I stood, where that Blue X is. The 2 left orange circles were (what I thought) buck bedding / Right 2 orange was just general deer bedding. The reason for the odd placement or low elevation is bc of the wind/thermal effect, pressure and cover. An arial shot would reveal some thick areas.

Here is my Deer Log for that day:
*9/18/15 - 50* / 74* (Sunny)
NW Winds - 5-7MPH
Smoky Tree
6:45am - 11 Pointer comes running from behind stand and stops right next to me. Harvested 1st Mounter Buck w Bow!!! SCORED: 137"
9:00am - While dragging out deer, 2 does walked right towards me.

I re marked this image for you:
Image
Red - Suspected beds buck would use (bottom X is where I bumped him out in Aug - N wind day, variable winds)
White - Suspected/Confirmed deer travel
Yellow - Thermal Hub (how I see it in this particular spot)

The yellow is the "Thermal Hub", how I see this spot. It has been talked about opposing ridges being the key w forming a hub, so my thinking is the the best a hub could be is a bowl shape? IDK really thats just how im imagining things really... the crows feet help w travel and thermal rise/falling to really ramp up the thermal effect. Anywhere multiple bedding ridges come together in a central or circular fashion. Add in flat bottoms those thermals can rise and fall all day in sync, get consistent wind tunnels and swirling winds in the bottoms can allow a mature buck to really survive, move stress free during daylight. OR like Joe talked about bedding at lower elevations and utilizing the effects of the terrain and wind to a point where he is very difficult to access and attack.

I stated earlier that I view most of my examples as "mini-hubs"... the 3rd pic is a great example of this (long finger ridge w opposing spurs). Things are very tight quarters in this spot and its very tough wind conditions, even for a morning hunt. The spot fluctuates from thick to open hardwoods. Though I dont have the full story here yet I have my own suspicions about it. Deer are bedding and laying sign in this location w better areas around. Now pressure could be a reason for that... however WHY they are centralized is what I couldnt figure out. Another one I chalked up as just rut stuff. I think all this can co mingle w "Thermal Based Bedding" discussions but it all fascinates me so im just here to learn like everyone else. Any opinions is very appreciated


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