Preferred rubbing trees and shrubs

[Lockdown]

Tonight Tcjohnsonjacks and I were having a conversation about a property that we've scouted and are both familiar with. Looking at an aerial, there is an island that looks like a remote big buck hideout if there ever was one... and it is void of rubs. We scouted it early on in our Beast careers, and I'm thinking we overlooked a bed or two that had some decent size. I have a hard time believing a shooter or two doesn't bed there when pressure is high. Regardless, the rubs weren't there, and there are lots of rubs in other bedding areas. It was not what we expected.

One very noticeable thing is there is a lack of good rubbing trees on that island. The couple "big" trees that would appeal to a 3.5+ year old buck had thick and heavy bark, and I don't see many rubs on those types of trees. Other than those few trees, the rest of the island contained spindly underbrush/young dogwood.

Along with that island, I scouted a new piece of public about a month ago and was very surprised at the lack of rubs. There weren't a lot of opportunities as far as "good" rubbing trees are concerned. Most were too big for rubbing, or they were willows of some kind with rough bark. There was a TON of those willows and I never saw squat for rubs. I walked over 4 miles and I doubt I saw 20 rubs. Coming out of one of the willow thickets, the trails led to a treeline and all of the sudden the rubs popped up. There were no rubs by the beds at all. This is a remote spot over a mile from the parking area and requires crossing water to get there. Perfect spot for a wary buck. You'd sure think there would be rubs in the bedding, right? There were beds... but no rubs.

With all of that said... I think the number of rubs is very proportional to the amount of "preferred" trees that are available. Poplars, Aspen, Buckthorn, etc... any smooth barked tree... those are what I find most of my rubs on. So what if those trees aren't available?

I think when preferred trees aren't available, bucks will rub far less. And vice versa. Thoughts? Experiences?

[fishlips]

Is the area very thick?

I have had similar experiences finding areas that look good on aerials and then I saw it in person and it's more open than I expected. Most of those spots left me feeling less than optimistic about the prospects for the spot.

[Hawthorne]

I think finding those rubs in the treeline is a good indication bucks are bedded there IMO. Maybe throw up a camera in the beds. When I was at the Michigan workshop there was a bed one of the members shot a nice buck out of did'nt see much buck sign around the bed or area but there was a big sign post rub nearby.
Dan walked right up bed not knowing that's where the buck was shot. Impressive
[ Post made via Android ]

[jmaas07]

Did you find beds on that island? No rubs could be a lack of competition. I think the bigger heavier barked trees still get rubbed but the rubs don't stick out like a sore thumb. I found a bed out in the catails a few weeks ago under a bigger tree, the rub was very subtle, almost unnoticeable and looking close there was head hair stuck in the bark.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[kurt]

Show me a rub ...excited...
Show me a four finger Track in what has the ingredients of a buck bedding area ...now we are talking. Now cutting a fresh track in the hunting season headed there...words can't describe

I used to get caught up in lack of rub sign(esp in a bed) but now a spot just gets that feeling and it doesn't need that particular sign to be good

[ Post made via Android ]

[Lockdown]

Is the area very thick?

I have had similar experiences finding areas that look good on aerials and then I saw it in person and it's more open than I expected. Most of those spots left me feeling less than optimistic about the prospects for the spot.

It's not thick but it's surrounded by cattails and there is plenty of secure bedding on the cattail transition.




Jmaas yes there were beds on the island, but they all appeared to be doe beds. I'm definitely going back there this spring for a closer look. Tyler mentioned there being a smaller rub or two not far from the trails that leave the island. It's got to be buck bedding, but there definitely isn't obvious sign.


I'll get that island figured out this spring... Tyler and I were pretty green when we scouted it.

I mentioned these two scenarios both for discussion and also to help out the newer members. I stand by my statement... If their preferred rubbing trees don't exist you aren't going to find as many rubs. But the bucks are there.


Kurt I agree with what you said... I'm finding that more and more. I mentioned in a different thread that my first year I relied too heavily on rubs and most likely missed some good bedding because of it.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Lockdown]

I think finding those rubs in the treeline is a good indication bucks are bedded there IMO. Maybe throw up a camera in the beds. When I was at the Michigan workshop there was a bed one of the members shot a nice buck out of did'nt see much buck sign around the bed or area but there was a big sign post rub nearby.
Dan walked right up bed not knowing that's where the buck was shot. Impressive
[ Post made via Android ]

I'm pretty sure they're there. My main point is there is a couple hundred yards of trees with no rubs. All the same type of willow/thicket. As soon as you hit the treeline they encounter some buckthorn and there are the rubs. Coincidence??? I think they don't like thick bark, they like smooth bark.

I'd run camera here if I could but it's public. Not allowed in MN

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[jmaas07]

If your going back there take another look at the beds that you presumed to be doe bedding, could be buck bedding shifting around based on wind but could be doe beds like you said. If there's trees or clumps of brush on higher ground a little ways off the island in the catails there's probably bedding there. At the Wisconsin workshop we looked at an island that was primary bedding and the bedding was off the island, however Dan said the bedding seemed to be shifting to the island due to the water levels getting higher in the catails over the last couple years

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Stanley]

Tonight Tcjohnsonjacks and I were having a conversation about a property that we've scouted and are both familiar with. Looking at an aerial, there is an island that looks like a remote big buck hideout if there ever was one... and it is void of rubs. We scouted it early on in our Beast careers, and I'm thinking we overlooked a bed or two that had some decent size. I have a hard time believing a shooter or two doesn't bed there when pressure is high. Regardless, the rubs weren't there, and there are lots of rubs in other bedding areas. It was not what we expected.

One very noticeable thing is there is a lack of good rubbing trees on that island. The couple "big" trees that would appeal to a 3.5+ year old buck had thick and heavy bark, and I don't see many rubs on those types of trees. Other than those few trees, the rest of the island contained spindly underbrush/young dogwood.

Along with that island, I scouted a new piece of public about a month ago and was very surprised at the lack of rubs. There weren't a lot of opportunities as far as "good" rubbing trees are concerned. Most were too big for rubbing, or they were willows of some kind with rough bark. There was a TON of those willows and I never saw squat for rubs. I walked over 4 miles and I doubt I saw 20 rubs. Coming out of one of the willow thickets, the trails led to a treeline and all of the sudden the rubs popped up. There were no rubs by the beds at all. This is a remote spot over a mile from the parking area and requires crossing water to get there. Perfect spot for a wary buck. You'd sure think there would be rubs in the bedding, right? There were beds... but no rubs.

With all of that said... I think the number of rubs is very proportional to the amount of "preferred" trees that are available. Poplars, Aspen, Buckthorn, etc... any smooth barked tree... those are what I find most of my rubs on. So what if those trees aren't available?

I think when preferred trees aren't available, bucks will rub far less. And vice versa. Thoughts? Experiences?

I think you are spot on about rubs and rubbing trees availability. Bucks rub en route. In other words on the way from bed to a food source. They don't go looking for trees to rub. If the trees are limited so is the rubbing activity. When the food source changes so will the location of the rubs. That is why you see rubs pop up at different times and locations.

[CallMeFishmael]

Were there any trees just off the island or any brush? If does are bedding on the island, the bucks could be in the marsh around the island. I found a similar situation in a spot I am going to hunt. The bucks seemed to bed out in/past the transition on the down wind side. In my situation, I found the rubs out in the swamp.

[ Post made via Android ]

[Lockdown]

Were there any trees just off the island or any brush? If does are bedding on the island, the bucks could be in the marsh around the island. I found a similar situation in a spot I am going to hunt. The bucks seemed to bed out in/past the transition on the down wind side. In my situation, I found the rubs out in the swamp.

[ Post made via Android ]

No lone trees... We walked the entire transition and never found any trails heading to beds.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[CallMeFishmael]

Have you pulled it up on google earth to see if you can see any trails out in the cattails or anything?

[ Post made via Android ]

[Lockdown]

Fish there are multiple trails leaving toward dry land.

To anyone reading this thread, in my original post the main thing I'm trying to discuss/figure out is how often solid bedding is found without rubs in the immediate area. I'm talking rubbable trees (size wise) in the bedding and staging areas.

Do any of you find they don't rub at all until they hit a sign post area? Hawthorne in the scenario you mentioned, were there any rubs at all in the area aside from the sign post itself?

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[CallMeFishmael]

Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted the purpose of the thread. During the Michigan scouting seminar, Dan mentioned that it is not unusual to find beds without rubs. He said it was generally due to a lack of competition for the bed.

[ Post made via Android ]

[Lockdown]

Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted the purpose of the thread. During the Michigan scouting seminar, Dan mentioned that it is not unusual to find beds without rubs. He said it was generally due to a lack of competition for the bed.

[ Post made via Android ]

It's all good buddy... If I wasn't so long winded that would probably help!

It makes sense that competition for the bed is a big factor for rubbing IN the bed. I don't find all that many beds with rubs in them. Some are pretty cut and dried. But the more I scout the more I learn to follow every trail leaving a bed for 100 yards or better.

[ Post made via iPhone ]