Correlating Winter Scouting with Fall Hunting

[gander08]

Dan,
I know you do a good chunk of scouting during the winter/early spring when there is still snow on the ground. Where I hunt in Michigan, the areas in the winter that have deer sign may not have deer present during the Fall and vice versa. Actually, a lot of the area around me the deer will herd in the winter and leave some of my properties all together. So, my question is, how do you scout these areas for “big buck beds” during the winter, when these bucks may not be on the property at this time? Should I wait for the snow to clear before I do my scouting to look at sign that was left the previous fall? Thanks and looking forward to watching the Marsh bedding dvd!

[justdirtyfun]

This question can have many answers.
A quick thought is look for rut sign. Rubs or dormant scrapes were made during the prime hunting time and was done by bucks.
In depth analysis of a rub can include height, direction, relation to other rubs(line) and relation to bedding.

I scouted this past Saturday and agree about deer moving to different areas. A small creek oxbow looked good for buck bedding but in person didn't pan out. A few deer had bedded along the creek where the sun warmed them . Away from the trees.

I'm further south and snow does not yard the deer up like up north. Dan often suggests right when the snow leaves is appropriate scouting time.

[Lockdown]

I would do a speed scout in your suspected bedding areas, look for rubs and scrapes (overhanging branch) and make notes for a more in depth scout after snow melt. It is tough when you can't see trails and beds.

If you've got the time to do it, by all means scout. If you have a wife/girlfriend who might try and limit scouting time, wait till the snow melts.

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[tbunao]

What lockdown said. I'm finding areas with previous rut activity and beds that are being used as of now. Turkey season I spend the first part hunting them damn birds then back to areas I previously scouted to reinforce thoughts. The wife/gf thing has no part in my life

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[dan]

When the snow melts it will reveal the beds underneath... Even if deer don't yard up, winter bedding is often different than fall bedding.

[JoeRE]

Yes beware of reading too much into fresh sign on top of snow as related to what you can expect in the fall, but at the same time don't completely discount it either. Every situation is different.

One thing that is tricky is "fall sign" isn't precise enough. Rut sign is the most obvious but that is only a short part of the hunting season. One thing I have learned to do is look closely at rubs - around here anyway rubs made early season in warmer weather end up looking sort of mildewy by the winter and early spring. I guess I should take a picture sometime of what I mean. Late Oct - November rubs look a lot fresher. Mixed ages of rubs show prolonged use.

Would be interested in other people's tips on determining just what part of the fall sign was laid down.

[dan]

I agree Joe... In Michigan last weekend we looked at a bed that had 3 rubs at it.... What was interesting is it did not look any more worn out than the others, but the rubs were from early season and later, like around rut, you could see the age in the rubs, and by height you could tell it was three different bucks. The smallest rub was obviously from early season based on age in comparison to the other two... I got the feeling some in the group did not get the significance of those rubs in that bed, while the others were not... Obvious to me that bucks were competing for that bed, and doing so all season.

[remmag]

I agree Joe... In Michigan last weekend we looked at a bed that had 3 rubs at it.... What was interesting is it did not look any more worn out than the others, but the rubs were from early season and later, like around rut, you could see the age in the rubs, and by height you could tell it was three different bucks. The smallest rub was obviously from early season based on age in comparison to the other two... I got the feeling some in the group did not get the significance of those rubs in that bed, while the others were not... Obvious to me that bucks were competing for that bed, and doing so all season.

That was a real eye opener for me. Never would I have thought that those rubs were made by different bucks. If I would have walked onto that I would have just figured it was multiple rubs made by the same buck using the bed as a primary.

This is a great post BTW and I hope it gets more attention. Last season was my first "beast" season and I came upon the same scenario. I found a long list of buck beds during Jan.-March that I mapped out to hunt during the fall and all but maybe a half dozen of those beds actually panned out and have remained on "the list" for next season. The other beds, I learned throughout last season were clearly winter/seasonal bedding.

But that just goes in tune with what was said at the end of the workshop the other weekend. Beast hunting success doesn't come overnight. It takes multiple seasons to really nail down good bedding to get you through a entire season. This year I've seen less deer on stand than I have in any other season in my hunting career. But on the other hand, the deer I seen were mainly bucks, and if killed they would have been my biggest buck to date.

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[Mibowfreak]

I agree Joe... In Michigan last weekend we looked at a bed that had 3 rubs at it.... What was interesting is it did not look any more worn out than the others, but the rubs were from early season and later, like around rut, you could see the age in the rubs, and by height you could tell it was three different bucks. The smallest rub was obviously from early season based on age in comparison to the other two... I got the feeling some in the group did not get the significance of those rubs in that bed, while the others were not... Obvious to me that bucks were competing for that bed, and doing so all season.

That was something that I have never heard before. I took all that in at the workshop. Actually, my buddy and I disgust that first thing when leaving there.

I look back at some of the beds I have found in the past and sure wish I would have had the idea of bucks competing for that bed. That info there, could be a real game changer when your trying to pin down when the more mature buck is using that bed. I have always said, its the little details that make the biggest difference in having success.

Great stuff!!

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[justdirtyfun]

So to continue with the bucks competing at a specific bed.
I can think of two big reasons: safety or doe proximity.
Has anyone seen a situation that was explained by one or the other?

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[Ack]

I agree Joe... In Michigan last weekend we looked at a bed that had 3 rubs at it.... What was interesting is it did not look any more worn out than the others, but the rubs were from early season and later, like around rut, you could see the age in the rubs, and by height you could tell it was three different bucks. The smallest rub was obviously from early season based on age in comparison to the other two... I got the feeling some in the group did not get the significance of those rubs in that bed, while the others were not... Obvious to me that bucks were competing for that bed, and doing so all season.

Another thought I had as to why there were multiple rubs in one bed, was that there is a real good chance that the first buck got shot, and another moved in, and so on. If that was the most secure spot at the time, each buck would have looked for the safety of that bed. You saw all the trimmed up trees around that bed Dan......think this theory is possible?

[Czabs]

Ive found if the same crops or food source they are hitting in fall is the same as winter...the bedding will generally be close to the same. A lot of times that isn't the case...sometimes you can get lucky and have a standing corn field or standing bean field and bedding near those for example are pretty similar in my opinion.

I haven't had a whole lot of luck having the bedding be the same as right now in marshes unless ^^^^

For some reason, I'm not sure exactly why..it might be because of food sources but winter bedding in hills and thermal cover (coniferous swamps) has been a lot more consistent than marshes. A lot of the coniferous areas I've found...cedar swamps, tamarack swamps, red/white pines & grass, usually tend to stay the same but i've found it tough to find exact buck beds in a consistent location. A lot of these are herding areas as well. Good place to find bone.

When snow scouting I tend to pay more attention to rub lines, rubs, terrain features, and human sign, over beds. Then will go back in spring or while the snow is melting and find the exact beds and bedding areas as well as old trails and scrapes from the previous season.

I hate snow scouting but you aren't going to learn anything crying about the snow, I'll be out this weekend before we get dumped on with another 10 inches

[oldrank]

The other thing that was a small little detail I picked up at the scouting workshop is pay attention to whats under the snow. A fall bed may not be being used right now n may not appear to be much of anything. Pay attention to browsed trees-vegetation. Look at a potential bed n see if the area looks matted under the snow. The bed WTA killed the buck out of didnt have any sign that jumped out n said a big buck used it, but once we started really looking at the area small details popped up.

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[Mibowfreak]

The other thing that was a small little detail I picked up at the scouting workshop is pay attention to whats under the snow. A fall bed may not be being used right now n may not appear to be much of anything. Pay attention to browsed trees-vegetation. Look at a potential bed n see if the area looks matted under the snow. The bed WTA killed the buck out of didnt have any sign that jumped out n said a big buck used it, but once we started really looking at the area small details popped up.

[ Post made via Android ]

Exactly!!

[Bubbles]

Great thread. I have been wondering about this for a while. I'm basically doing what lockdown said. Scouting for rubs and rublines to try and find something that appears to be bedding. Then confirm in the spring and pick stand sites. The trails through the cattails are still pretty obvious in the winter as well, which helps.

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