A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

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A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby Harvestor » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:50 pm

This weekend I began looking for next year's buck on a medium sized piece of public land. The whole piece is over 2000 contiguous acres but the portion of swamp and timber that I was concentrating on during this trip I estimated to be approximately 500 acres. I followed a hard transition line between higher dry ground/mature timber (with pockets of thick brush on the ridge tops) and the swamp edge. Partially because of the amount of rain this year, the swamp had a lot of standing water, but I would expect this to be the case to some degree almost every year in the fall. I didn't see much evidence of movement into and out of the swamp along the transition, even off points and peninsulas ( and even given the snow cover on the dry ground) which made me question if the deer were utilizing very much of the swamp portion of this piece due to the depth of the water and how much of it is literally flooded. Most of the evidence of travel was along the transition line parallel to the swamp. My goal going in was to check out what looked like a narrow piece of high ground (10 ft wide X 50 yd long) connecting what looked to be several good possibilities for bedding with a food source to the North. I suspected this might be a quality rut funnel stand because this piece of high ground was the path of least resistance connecting 3 pieces of bedding cover. To the south east of this funnel was a peninsula that stuck out from the mainland into the swamp and pointed toward a large island about 60-70 yards off into the swamp. This was another location I wanted to investigate and I wanted to get onto the island. This particular peninsula was the only place I found evidence of a trail entering the swamp (in the direction of the island) and along the transition edge about 100 yards from the point I found several rubs including a forked tree that was close to the diameter of my thigh with rub marks higher than my belly button (I'm 6'2" for reference.) The peninsula was almost completely comprised of red oaks as well. All of these things led me to believe that my suspicions about this location were likely true; that there was a least a decent chance a buck was bedding on the island, or the point of the peninsula (although I found no bed(s) on this particular point). I don't have hip or chest waders and I was quickly up to my 17" boots when I tried to navigate toward the island. I had hoped the ice that was on the swamp was going to be enough to hold me but it wasn't and the black muck was very thick and soft underneath as I suspected it would be.

Anyway, this is getting longer than I expected so I will get on with my questions:

1. How deep of swamp water and black muck will deer typically walk in. I'm not talking about a pressured or bumped deer escaping a hunter, but instead a deer choosing its preferred, regular course from its bed to food? Is it likely the deer will have found a different course to the mentioned island which would allow them to walk in more shallow water or firmer areas of muck where they may only sink in a foot rather than 2 or more feet, or are they not bothered by the depth in your experience? Will the deer move through an extremely dense tag alder swamp the same way they will move through a cattail marsh, or will the travel occur more on the main land transition line because of the density of the vegetation in the swamp and the depth of the standing water?

2. In many of the marsh videos I have watched, I see hunters scouting and following a 'maze' of deer trails through the cattails in ankle or mid calf deep water. This seems to be navigable, however the particular swamp I was scouting was less marsh ground and more solid tag alders with little to no solid ground to be found, it seems. The visibility, even with no foliage, was 10-20 feet, at most, in the majority of the areas. Are these the kind of areas people are still able to scout successfully? If so, are you wearing hip waders, chest waders or getting by some different way entirely?

3. Most importantly, how do you stay safe in the swamp? I have family members who have lost boots and shoes trying to walk through alder swamps like this. They have also been walking in 'manageable' muck only to be waist deep with the next step. This seems dangerous, especially in sub freezing conditions. Is there any hints that you look for in the swamp that tell you where the firmer muck might be...even when it seems to all look the same? Has anyone been crotch or waist deep in black muck with waders on and if so, does this become a situation where you have to resort to digging yourself out by hand? Do you look at a situation like that as a danger or just an inconvenience?

Some of these questions probably seem to be elementary or stupid. I've had success in a few situations hunting a few small pieces of marsh ground and also the edges of swamps but I haven't pushed into areas of much standing water to get to islands. I feel I need to scout this particular island but I don't want to put myself in a compromised situation by charging in blindly. As a note, the island is not accessible by boat.

I know this is a lot of information and lengthy questions but I wanted to explain the scenario appropriately. So, if you are still reading this, any and all input on safety or thoughts/critiques on stand locations that can be provided is very much appreciated! Hopefully the aerial photo will post properly. Image


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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby checkerfred » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:06 pm

I'm not an expert an actually just started with swamps last year. I also have reservations about swamps and deeper water. I scouted a place this fall that was mid calf to knee deep then an area I wanted to get to I could see some deeper water. I Carried a stick as tall as me to probe with. It hit bottom about hip high and ended up coming a little over when I crossed it. Definitely an eerie feeling almost like at any moment it could get deeper. I think it was a little creek/ditch but since it's swampy and flooded looked similar to the rest. I crossed it and looked around on the other side but it was so wet I couldn't see any deer sign. Anyway I went slow probing each step. I also had my brother with me. I figure two is safer than one. The cold isn't much of a factor here unless it's about this time of year but deep holes stay in my mind.

The pole/stick method works good. You can feel the bottom type...hard or soft and the depth. If it's over chest height I'm not crossing and even at hip high I'm going slow. I also don't like the thoughts of snakes or gators in the early season!

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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby Mario » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:24 pm

I think these are all reasonable questions when navigating a new thick area.

Singing Bridge navigates a lot of areas like this and gives some tips in his podcast
http://www.thehuntingbeast.com/viewtopic.php?f=295&t=30968

response to #1. From what I have observed deer are not bothered by water or deep muck. Especially if they are pressured. In some of the areas I hunt I know if I traversed the areas I would go chest deep in much but have heard and observed deer walk through those same areas. The key is to find those heavy cut trails coming in and out of the swamp. If well traveled they will but cut through the cattails and can often be navigated by pressing your feet on the side of the trails as you walk to scout. I will say that if its a large buck and he is using it regularly then there needs to be enough space for him to get his rack through the trail. Seems simple, but a buck walking in and out of his bed probably is not likely going to blast through dense cover on each entrance and exit unless bumped.

response to #2. These areas are tough to scout and tough to walk on. But I think you have the right idea in mind if these areas lead to a remote piece of high ground. And it does not have to be that big. If you can zoom in on a topo map or statellite image see if you can pick out any bigger trees. This typically indicates a patch of higher ground. I have seen areas waist deep in water, but with a 10 yard section of elevation that holds a bed. Again this really sounds like the stuff Singing Bridge talked about hunting on a regular basis.

response to #3. Make sure people have a map of where you are going. Make sure there is a timeline for when you are gone so they know if you don't come back that they should start looking for you. There are GPS and Satellite solutions you can use also. I think one is called SPOT. It basically a GPS that can track your position from a website etc... Also pack the proper gear you need to "spend a night" in the swamp if necessary

Hope this helps! The spot sounds like a place that might be holder a giant if you can locate some access trails to some high ground. Good Luck!
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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby Ryan » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:26 pm

I found the same evidence with the conditions you stated, I scouted a similar piece, it's not much marsh but just tall trees and deep water between high ground, deep meaning knee to shoulder deep in some spots, I found almost all the deer sign traveling the edge of high ground where it meets the water and found barely any sign showing crossings in the water, but they are there they may be subtle, there are points connecting all that high ground, I would just keep traveling the edge where the tracks are until they end, there going to cross somewhere off that high ground through the water, I am not sure if you have beaver dams in this area but all of the crossings I found where at the dams

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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby Josh_S » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:44 pm

Thanks for bringing up these questions Harvestor, I'm a rookie to this type of terrain myself. This is a great place to learn from other hunters. Marshes and swamps are probably overlooked by most hunters in our state. It is new to me and I plan on scouting similar terrain this winter as well.

I also have a cyber scouting question to add. When looking at aerial satellite views, is it possible to see deer trails in the marsh? See the image below as an example. I'm conflicted whether or not what I see on the left are trails. It makes sense that it would be...in the aerial imaging I've seen these perceived "trails" seem to run thru or along points, islands, lone trees, and parallel to edges...places we would expect deer movement. Veteran marsh hunters help me out. Are these trails or just some sort of waterway?

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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby PK_ » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:04 pm

That swamp does not look deep at all. I can't imagine hip boots wouldn't get you onto that island without a problem. But I have been wrong about that before. If you are worried, wear a life jacket.

I have seen bucks swim to and from beds many times, they do not mind crossing deep water.

Here is a safety tip, when you take a step on what looks like dry land but all the brush around you begins to bob up and down, tread lightly.

Josh_S wrote:I also have a cyber scouting question to add. When looking at aerial satellite views, is it possible to see deer trails in the marsh? See the image below as an example. I'm conflicted whether or not what I see on the left are trails. It makes sense that it would be...in the aerial imaging I've seen these perceived "trails" seem to run thru or along points, islands, lone trees, and parallel to edges...places we would expect deer movement. Veteran marsh hunters help me out. Are these trails or just some sort of waterway?


Those are trails. Generally if they connect dry ground to dry ground, they are game trails. If they connect the deeper sections of the body of water, they are waterways or beaver paths etc...
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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby checkerfred » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:30 pm

PK_ wrote:That swamp does not look deep at all. I can't imagine hip boots wouldn't get you onto that island without a problem. But I have been wrong about that before. If you are worried, wear a life jacket.

I have seen bucks swim to and from beds many times, they do not mind crossing deep water.

Here is a safety tip, when you take a step on what looks like dry land but all the brush around you begins to bob up and down, tread lightly.

Josh_S wrote:I also have a cyber scouting question to add. When looking at aerial satellite views, is it possible to see deer trails in the marsh? See the image below as an example. I'm conflicted whether or not what I see on the left are trails. It makes sense that it would be...in the aerial imaging I've seen these perceived "trails" seem to run thru or along points, islands, lone trees, and parallel to edges...places we would expect deer movement. Veteran marsh hunters help me out. Are these trails or just some sort of waterway?


Those are trails. Generally if they connect dry ground to dry ground, they are game trails. If they connect the deeper sections of the body of water, they are waterways or beaver paths etc...


Good post PK...especially about the trails. I hit an area last year with vegetation on top and it moved with me like a water bed. I had read up quite a bit on swamps and remembered reading about floating bogs. I did not cross that area.

In my area it's hardwood bottoms and is usually flooded unless it's super dry. I've found if there's trees around its no more than knee deep. Of course there's always the risk of holes from stumps or whatever so I tend to go slow and use a walking stick.

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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby Harvestor » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:45 am

Thank you all for the replies and good ideas. I believe I will start using a walking stick in these situations. As a note, I don't believe that the particular swamp I am referencing would be over waders but the depth of the muck and the suctioning effect it had on my boots even when it was just ankle deep, as well as some members of my family's past experiences in this type of terrain, have left me wondering about the possibility of getting stuck or having to lose a wader in order to get yourself out of thigh deep muck and sludge. The place in the aerial photo I included was over a mile from where I parked my vehicle, which seems like it could be problematic if your footwear is stuck in the swamp, its 30 degrees and you're soaked with 40 degree water.

I believe I recall Dan writing about a hunt one time where in one step he went in about waist deep. I am just curious about getting out of a situation like this, it is just a pain in the but, or is it potentially dangerous if you don't do it right- as in, the more you move your feet around the deeper you can get stuck? Again, I realize some of my questions are probably seemingly elementary to the more experience swamp/marsh hunters on here but I'm trying have realistic expectations about what I will encounter and how to deal with it if I find myself in one of these scenarios since most of my hunting experience is in hill country.

I did listen to Singing Bridge's podcast episode and was able to get a lot of useful information there, however, he talked about needing to "hit your mark" in the swamp and being off 20' could the difference of walking or swimming; I guess I am curious as to how Scott initially determines where the navigable ground is to begin with when plotting his approach. Like Beast memers discuss predicting bedding areas from an aerial map or are able to zero in on these areas quickly when scouting, are there similar signs in the swamp which dictate likely accessible routes. The water where I am at looks black and there doesn't seem to be a good way to determine what is solid underneath it and what isn't (without trial and error). Of course I could be missing tell tale signs of high ground such as a certain type of vegetation in the swamp (other than large trees) that needs more solid ground for a root system or something along those lines.

Thanks for the replies and discussion, given the information here I am feeling more confident about going deeper into some of these areas.
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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby EthanHogan1 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:22 am

I would say it would be nice to have a little hand held Gps. I have had the same problem as you with swamps and getting through deep water you are not sure about, and in the dark coming out the last thing you wanna do is go through some un known area full of water ha... How these old timers did it back in the day with just a compass is just truly amazing. I like using my compass in hill country just to get out because I know no matter how far I go I always know multiple directions to get me back to a road. Might be a very long walk, but it is dry. With my scouting this year I hope to use my gps the first few times and you can build a custom trail on a map with Google maps and mapping programs on a garmin and other devices. Check out bowhunter15 YouTube channel really good helpful DIY scouting tips!

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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:19 am

You guys are going to like the swamp hunting dvd when it comes out...

regarding how I initially find my way in and out, I start with aerials and look for likely access routes that I can maneuver my way in and out without crossing big, wide gaps of open water and muck. It takes a lot of offseason work. We move deadfallen trees to make bridges over muck that could sink a buffalo, etc. That being said, we also have trails where we just pick our way carefully across.

Remember, the reason you are hesitant to cross is exactly why the older bucks go back there- a lack of human scent, and nothing can get near them without them hearing it coming from a very long way off.

We lose gear too... it is a part of swamp hunting that you simply have to accept.
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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby Harvestor » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:03 am

EthanHogan1 wrote:I would say it would be nice to have a little hand held Gps. I have had the same problem as you with swamps and getting through deep water you are not sure about, and in the dark coming out the last thing you wanna do is go through some un known area full of water ha... How these old timers did it back in the day with just a compass is just truly amazing. I like using my compass in hill country just to get out because I know no matter how far I go I always know multiple directions to get me back to a road. Might be a very long walk, but it is dry. With my scouting this year I hope to use my gps the first few times and you can build a custom trail on a map with Google maps and mapping programs on a garmin and other devices. Check out bowhunter15 YouTube channel really good helpful DIY scouting tips!

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I've been using a Garmin map62s for the past year and it is pretty much responsible for how I log access routes and possible stand locations. I configured it with topo lines and property boundaries based of DIYSportsmans youtube vids. I don't know how the old timers did it without technology either, all I can say it that they were obviously more proficient woodsmen than I, but having a GPS unit has changed my scouting in profound ways and helped to open up a new world of possibility.
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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby cedarsavage » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:46 am

Harvestor wrote:Thank you all for the replies and good ideas. I believe I will start using a walking stick in these situations. As a note, I don't believe that the particular swamp I am referencing would be over waders but the depth of the muck and the suctioning effect it had on my boots even when it was just ankle deep, as well as some members of my family's past experiences in this type of terrain, have left me wondering about the possibility of getting stuck or having to lose a wader in order to get yourself out of thigh deep muck and sludge. The place in the aerial photo I included was over a mile from where I parked my vehicle, which seems like it could be problematic if your footwear is stuck in the swamp, its 30 degrees and you're soaked with 40 degree water.

I believe I recall Dan writing about a hunt one time where in one step he went in about waist deep. I am just curious about getting out of a situation like this, it is just a pain in the but, or is it potentially dangerous if you don't do it right- as in, the more you move your feet around the deeper you can get stuck? Again, I realize some of my questions are probably seemingly elementary to the more experience swamp/marsh hunters on here but I'm trying have realistic expectations about what I will encounter and how to deal with it if I find myself in one of these scenarios since most of my hunting experience is in hill country.

I did listen to Singing Bridge's podcast episode and was able to get a lot of useful information there, however, he talked about needing to "hit your mark" in the swamp and being off 20' could the difference of walking or swimming; I guess I am curious as to how Scott initially determines where the navigable ground is to begin with when plotting his approach. Like Beast memers discuss predicting bedding areas from an aerial map or are able to zero in on these areas quickly when scouting, are there similar signs in the swamp which dictate likely accessible routes. The water where I am at looks black and there doesn't seem to be a good way to determine what is solid underneath it and what isn't (without trial and error). Of course I could be missing tell tale signs of high ground such as a certain type of vegetation in the swamp (other than large trees) that needs more solid ground for a root system or something along those lines.

Thanks for the replies and discussion, given the information here I am feeling more confident about going deeper into some of these areas.



When I was a kid trapping muskrats I had a boot get stuck that couldn't get out, that sat in the rest of the season while I walked around it with a new pair of boots. This past season I had a fiasco where a boot got stuck and eventually got it out by shaking and pulling it enough to break free, I figure if I have to if rather lose a boot than get stuck in the marsh

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Re: A few Swamp Scouting Questions and Safety Concerns

Unread postby dan » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:29 am

I think if your young and in good shape you can get out of most "fall thrus" It gets a lot more dangerous when its frozen. This is cause you don't gradually feel the ground getting worse on ice. You can be way out over a bad area and then go thru... Most of us "swamp rats" have done that a time or two, and we got out to tell the story... You learn to walk in certain areas. I don't walk on ice in swamps that has no showing vegetation... Vegetation gives you more solid ground rather than solid silt / quick sand type muck.


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