What do you see when scouting and shining?

[Lockdown]

There are some big ones around my part of MN, but finding them is not easy. I've spent many years figuring out which spots produce big deer annually, and which ones don't. I avoid wasting time scouting where I can't hunt, however, I am obviously watching and shining in between properties I have access to.

I do scout the surrounding few miles of land around the public and private parcels I have permission for.

That said, with 40+ hours of spring scouting, the same for summer glassing and shining, and with 4 trail cams to boot... I am only aware of 9 bucks that I would be happy to shoot. I've seen a few nice two year olds in the 100-110" range that I'd settle for and shoot late in the year, but I'm targeting 3.5+...

Out of curiosity, how many 3 year olds or better would you see with a similar amount of effort?

[oldrank]

In a night of shining id see a handful of 100-120 inch deer. Anything bigger is rare but there is usually a 150 class in the area n every 4 or 5 yrs a true monster will show up.

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[seazofcheeze]

Out of curiosity, how many 3 year olds or better would you see with a similar amount of effort?

I've got at least that much time in (probably more), and I believe I've only located (3) 3.5yr+ Two via trail cam (I'm running 5 cams total non-stop since July and have covered around 10 different properties, both private and public). The smallest property ive run a cam on is 80 acres. I've also seen one, possibly two shining. I hunt in Michigan's rifle zone (as opposed to shotguns only) and the hunter density is really high, law of averages says most bucks do not see a third birthday. To put it in perspective, I have a buck on cam this year that I believe is 4.5. This is the first time since I started running cams in 2009 that I've got any 4.5yr old buck on cam, and I average probably 1-2 3.5s per year. Not complaining, because I love the area I'm hunting, just saying the same effort in my area yields lower results.

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[JoeRE]

Lockdown, ballpark how many acres are you covering to get those results?

I bust my but to find 5-10 shooter bucks every year that ROUTINELY are in the area of about 4000 acres of public land spread across 5 counties. Its probably about the same level of effort you put in. What a shooter is depends on where the hunter is located, but to me the top 10% is still the top 10% wherever you go and it takes a lot of work to find that....I know Iowa public land is pretty good so a shooter for me needs to be at least 4/5 years old and 135+ inches, 3 year olds get the pass. I probably see 2-3 three year olds for every older buck. If I had a big chunk of exclusive access land it would probably be 5/6 years old and 150+. In high pressure areas it might be any 3 year old - its situational, you are going for the top bucks in your area and that is as good as it gets.

[mheichelbech]

2 to 4 on trail camera and 0 shining. I think they know better if they make it to that age to stay away from roads where they can be seen and shot by poachers.

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[Peeps22]

i dont think 9 bucks is anything to sneeze at. I put alot of time in scouting, glassing, and shining and would say on good years i would be around 5-8 good bucks that i would have a chance to at least hunt. this year im around 10 good bucks with a couple very nice ones but some have shifted the last week or so, so im trying to find them again via glassing and shining. 7 of the 10 are located on or very close to public.

ive never bowhunted Minnesota before so i cant compare it to where i hunt in WI, but i know that the part of the state im from there are alot of good bucks. I would much rather have a few bucks that ive got patterned very well than have alot of bucks with little knowledge of movement and patterns.

Obviously youre putting in the time and effort so something has to give and you will start to narrow things down even more so than you have and you will be able to key in on certain areas and know which areas to leave alone. Keep up the good work and goodluck this season!

[Lockdown]

Oldrank - that seems fairly acceptable, that's the kind of numbers I would be satisfied with... can't remember what state you're in... is your herd where you think it should be numbers and quality wise?

Seaz - thanks for the response. Man, that's not good if you are seeing less than I am. My main issue is habitat... yours sounds like pressure. What type of terrain do you have in your part of MI? Its mostly open farm country here, with mile roads on most section lines. That's part of what frustrates me is I can see a long ways and most of a section when I circle it, and the good ones just aren't in existence.

Joe - with your acreage question are you asking what the properties I hunt total in acres? Or more along the lines of how far I'm traveling/area I cover?
The 4 properties I've ran camera in total around 300 acres I would guess. Of the public I've scouted and shined, the smallest is around 30 acres, the biggest is close to 1,000. Around here anything 300-400 acres is big. I know of 4 or 5 pieces that are 500 and bigger. However, when you get into these bigger chunks, most of them are unhunt-able, structure-less cattails.

Map wise, the two biggest bucks I've seen this year are about 90 miles apart as the crow flies. I'm sure it'd be about 100 if you drove it.

I have public lands mapped in 7 counties and I've been to 5 scouting and shining this summer. I've lived in this town for 24 of my 32 years, and have eliminated a pretty vast amount of territory that doesn't produce big ones annually. I'm basically hopping from hot spot to hot spot, county to county.

mheichelbech - you are right about that. One of the biggest bucks I've ever seen was shot and killed by a road hunter. When they flew out into the field to throw it in the back end (everything about it was illegal as the day is long... plus they were drinking beer at the time) a different truck came barreling over a hill across the chizel plowing trying to catch up to it. That's why I target big sections and unhuntable areas.

Peeps - 9 bucks isn't all THAT bad, but like I said to Seaz... I can see an awful lot of ground when I scout and shine. When I'm not seeing them, in most cases its because they aren't there at all (especially when the beans are green and they're hitting them hard)... not because they're holed up in hardwoods.
I have noticed they've shifted too... now they're hiding out in the thousands upon thousands of acres of corn around here.

All I can say is when I tell the locals that I know where (9) 3.5+ year old bucks are, they look at me like I'm crazy. Or far too dedicated. I was curious too see what everyone else sees.

Thanks to all who have responded so far

[Wlog]

Well we can't shine here but I usually know of 3-4 good 3.5+ y/o bucks when the season starts. Plus 2-3 more properties I have a good hunch on. 9-10 would be a fantastic year.

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[BuckyHunter13]

This is a good post to put things in perspective and compare how different situations and preparation levels measure up. I'm in about the same range. A pair of potential 5-6 year olds, a possible third, and 6 to 8 two or three year olds. Some are more huntable than others, but all are worth the effort to narrow down their locations before they hit the acorns.

[Lockdown]

[glow=red]This is a good post to put things in perspective and compare how different situations and preparation levels measure up[/glow]. I'm in about the same range. A pair of potential 5-6 year olds, a possible third, and 6 to 8 two or three year olds. Some are more huntable than others, but all are worth the effort to narrow down their locations before they hit the [glow=red]acorns[/glow].

That said, I've only got a couple spots with oak trees. 90% of the time, my hunting revolves around corn.

[BHC]

We have 3300 acres to hunt yr around. Thru trail cams we have 20-25 3+ yr olds at any given time. Only 10-12 will be 4+ yr olds. I move cams around throughout the summer to find an area holding 3-5 bucks I'd like to shoot with one or two real studs. This yr I've found an area about 600 acres with 5 bucks 4+ Yrs old and all are probly 127"-135". And then two around 120". Inside that area I've got 8-10 potential ambush sites to get it done. I could keep moving cams and find more, but that would take away from time spent focusing on these. I don't get to hunt 30+ days/ yr so I don't need 20 target bucks. I'll put in 10 or do super focused outings on these specific bucks. Before grad school it was more like 20-25 hunts, and I still used the same strategy, except I'd find 2-3 off day bucks I'd hunt when the situation was right to hunt my targets. I still found those this yr. Probly 5 other 120-130" deer in other areas on the property. So I'm about the same as you around 10, but I won't hunt the other five likely at all. A lot of guys ask me what I've got on camera and I like to tell them about the "other bucks" that keeps them away from me, but also helps them. But that's just part of hunting with a group.

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[seazofcheeze]

Seaz - thanks for the response. Man, that's not good if you are seeing less than I am. My main issue is habitat... yours sounds like pressure. What type of terrain do you have in your part of MI? Its mostly open farm country here, with mile roads on most section lines. That's part of what frustrates me is I can see a long ways and most of a section when I circle it, and the good ones just aren't in existence.

Yea, the main thing missing in my area is age. I think I could count on one hand the guys I know that would pass a 2 year old buck.

As far as terrain, we have a good mix. Lots of farmland, lots of wooded public with no ag, and even some semi-hill country around the river bottoms.

Of the best bucks I've seen all year, two are hanging out around a corn field (got them on trail cam). There is a alfalfa field next to the corn and I haven't seen either buck in that while glassing this year. Another buck I have on cam in a different area, I only saw once early this summer in an oat field. There is a bean field planted right behind our house and I've never seen him in it and this is right in his core area. I guess what I'm getting at, is I don't totally rule out areas that should hold a good buck even if I don't see one through the various means of scouting.

Also, if you have any decoy (brand) recommendations and/or tactics that you want to share, post them on my journal or send me a PM if you don't mind, thanks.

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[oldrank]

I am in southern Mi. Our buck herd is mainly 1.5 yr olds n could be alot better. Our DPSM is pretty high.. not sure of recent numbers but id expect it to be 30 or 40.. 2008 qdm map says greater then 45 dpsm. Some areas are far denser then others. Its mostly farm land.. A 120-130 inch buck around here is a trophy n will get the town talkin.

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[Lockdown]

Seaz I'm by no means a decoy expert but I'll post something in your journal later tonight. Gotta change rotors on my wife's car before I go pick my daughter up from daycare.

I am in southern Mi. Our buck herd is mainly 1.5 yr olds n could be alot better. Our DPSM is pretty high.. not sure of recent numbers but id expect it to be 30 or 40.. 2008 qdm map says greater then 45 dpsm. Some areas are far denser then others. Its mostly farm land.. A 120-130 inch buck around here is a trophy n will get the town talkin.

[ Post made via Android ]

Oldrank, 45 dpsm is mind blowing for farm country. Don't your farmers throw a fit?!? There's no way those numbers would ever happen out here. With numbers that high, and with a 120" buck being a big deal, your buck to doe ratio must be 1:10 or worse. That said, in 20 years of bowhunting I have one bow kill over 120" in MN. A 120" isn't the talk of the town around here, but people would definitely call it a "big one".

I don't know what the average dpsm is around here, but I'm very confident it is way less than 10. Seems to me I saw a layout of the DNR's deer population goals for MN (dpsm) and it was 1-3 for my area. I can't remember the numbers for sure but I'll have to do some googling when my daughter goes to sleep tonight.

As far as our bucks are concerned, bow hunting pressure is fairly low, but there are quite a few gun hunters. I'm sure way fewer than your part of the country. Most bucks get wiped out, but a few slip through the cracks. Our age structure is terrible, but some of the really smart ones reach maturity.

[Lockdown]

All I can say is when I tell the locals that I know where (9) 3.5+ year old bucks are, they look at me like I'm crazy. Or far too dedicated. I was curious too see what everyone else sees.

If I'm guessing right, 1 buck is 5.5+ (the monster trail cam buck), 1 is 4.5 MAYBE 5.5 but I doubt it, and the other 7 bucks I'm pretty certain are 3.5...

I'm covering a 50+ mile radius from my house