Cedar Swamp Area Help

[fishlips]

Here is a place I plan on scouting soon. The area is mostly cedar swamp. I picked out this spot because it stuck out in the vast sea of cedar that make up most of this property. It's a bit of a haul back to this spot (about a mile through thick stuff), but this is one of the few breaks in the trees that I could find. I am just starting to get the hang of scouting these areas and have found that when you find a change in scenery, there is usually some bedding close by. I highlighted some areas in red that I think could hold some bedding areas. Has anyone else had any experiences hunting these types of settings and have any input on where any other potential bedding sites might be? It's a tough spot to scout due to access issues, but I think it could be a very good spot for that very reason.

One thing I have found in one area I have looked at is that there is a lot of bedding sites in a relatively small area. My guess is that part of the reason for the density of beds is due to how thick the area is and how conducive it is to keeping deer safe. Another thought I had is that these areas are full of white cedars which might attract hungry deer in the winter being taht this area does not have much else for forage.

[headgear]

I'd say you have a good place to start, just about any transition in a big swamp like that is worth a look. Another place I find a lot of swamp/cedar swamp bedding is near any big hills that bump up against the edge of the swamp. They don't have to be huge hill country type hills but I have had luck with anything that will create any kind of thermal just before dark. Even better if you can find a slight point of swamp with hills on two sides because the bucks can work thermals in two directions.

[fishlips]

Thanks for bringing up the points idea. I have a few of these places that I know of where I gun hunt. The ones I know of are not significant changes in elevation, but they are noticeably higher. I would assume too that ones that are thicker as you get out the point might be better.

I have definitely learned that scouting these cedar swamps are a whole different animal. They are so thick in spots and you'd think they could bed any where. But it does appear that like anywhere else, when you do find a bed, they are bedding there for a reason.

One addtional question though, how close are you able to set up on these deer if you are hunting in the afternoon? I mean I have done it before where I set up really close, but I also got out there very early in the morning.

[headgear]

Points of high ground jutting out into the swamp would of course be another good spot to check, I was talking about areas of the swamp that bump up against larger hills. The bucks will bed in the swamp for cover/protection but sometimes that isn't enough by itself, if they can work an evening thermal when getting out of their beds in the evening that makes a bedding area even better. They don't always work this way but I have found enough of them to keep an eye out for this kind of setup.

Here is an example from a bed I found a few years back, the two yellow dots are beds in a cedar swamp. They are close to a large hill to the south and another hill to the northeast, this creates a kind of thermal mixing zone where the buck can stage and smell everything on one or both hills.


Here is another example of a bedding area I found last weekend. The buck is bedding in tamarak/spuce swamp just off a point of high ground, I marked his beds in yellow. There was also a series of rub lines going to and from this bedding area, I believe he was working the bottom edge of this hill so he could catch downward thermals and smell everything above him just before dark. The top of the hill is a nice oak flat that gets some decent hunting pressure. The blue arrow would be the thermals working their way down to his bedding/staging area just before dark.

[Singing Bridge]

Great examples, headgear- especially for heavy pressure areas. Most hunters think the bucks will be bedded on the points in the thermal tunnel... but the high ground is overrun with hunters and the bucks in many of my areas will not tolerate it. They move off of the high ground and just into the cedar swamps to take advantage of the heavy cover, thermal shifts at dark and the flow of air currents through the swamps themselves. The lazy hunters do not want to penetrate the nastiness of the cedar swamps, and the lack of human scent has bucks with a couple of birthdays behind them taking advantage of these conditions.

I will add that in my high pressure areas, you'd better be close to the bed to catch daylight movement- If you think you can sit next to or in the "lone white oak" a short distance away on the high ground and catch a good buck in daylight... good luck with that.

[Singing Bridge]

fishlips wrote: I highlighted some areas in red that I think could hold some bedding areas. Has anyone else had any experiences hunting these types of settings and have any input on where any other potential bedding sites might be? It's a tough spot to scout due to access issues, but I think it could be a very good spot for that very reason.

As headgear pointed out, the outer edge of the swamp creates excellent transition areas and I might add that elevation next to the swamp isn’t necessary at all. Something as simple as a point of high ground jutting out into the cedar swamp will likely have buck travel and bedding near the tip of the point.

Once you are within the cedar swamp, we are talking a whole different game here. The cover borders on being truly impenetrable, and a miles long “sea of cedars” leaves most hunters lost and crying.

Waterways such as creeks, rivers, bogs, beaver ponds, lakes and just plain old impassible muck areas will create edge, buck travel and bedding inside the interior of cedar swamps. Get your topo of the area out, as a creek that is completely invisible from the air will have buck travel, rubs, scrapes and potential bedding in areas that favor it. Creeks that you can simply step over will contain all of these buck patterns. During the rut the bucks use these tiny creeks for food, water and as “highways” to reach various doe families within the swamps themselves. They have no need to see the puny little creek whatsoever- they can smell it like we smell a cake coming out of the oven. Without any visual of the micro-waterway they know exactly where they are based on smell in these super dense and low-visibility areas. If it’s an actual river going through, even better. There are also “rivers of air currents” that flow through these giant swamps that bucks will take advantage of for travel and bedding, but it takes a lot of experience in the interior of one of these giant swamps to understand what the bucks are doing (years).

Some other types of bedding are where mature cedars but up against younger cedars. I can often see nearly 70 yards in a very mature stand of cedars. Where the young cedars starts, or other types of heavy cover appear, you will find a transition line that bucks use for travel, rubs / scrapes and potential bedding. If you find a tree blown down along this type of transition- look closely for buck bedding.

Hope that helps, these are but a few of the potential bedding areas contained within these deep, dark and wet cedar swamps.

[Singing Bridge]

fishlips wrote: One addtional question though, how close are you able to set up on these deer if you are hunting in the afternoon? I mean I have done it before where I set up really close, but I also got out there very early in the morning.

I set up as close as I can without spooking out the buck. I have shot a cedar swamp buck when he stood up in his bed, and I've shot another when he stood up and walked 18 feet, among others (gun). I set up to cover a runway / transition with my bow just as close, if possible.

[headgear]

I think its also important to note that the bedding can change as the season progresses along. Early season you will find more bucks on the edge of the swamp. However once the pressure ramps up they still might bed on the edge but it could be in more remote locations or in those areas they have several advantages over the hunters like mentioned above. By the time the pressure is high some of those deep transitions or islands could get hot.

[Singing Bridge]

As far as interior cedar swamp bedding areas, a lot of us that hunt these areas take the basics for granted and assume that these types of interior bedding areas are already being considered... and I find that to be a big mistake with hunters that are new to this type of environment. Take a look at the interior of your big cedar swamp and look for the slightest elevation change- it can lead to bedding. A lot of the cedar swamps I hunt do not have any changes on the topo for miles... but some do. If you are lucky enough to find a slight change in elevation on the topo that edge can lead to buck travel and potential bedding.

Another thing we take for granted is that when you travel the interior of this sea of green, you watch the treetops for changes in habitat type. A rise in elevation of a foot may not show on the topo, but it may hold hardwoods that are much taller than the surrounding cedars. These islands of "high" ground can lead to edge / travel and bedding. I call them an island even though they are surrounded by cedars / water / muck and almost no visibility. The bucks treat them just like the hardwood island was surrounded by marsh or water, something a lot of cedar swamp hunters never catch on to. These bedding areas are so secure from invasion by hunters or a predator that bucks often use them in any wind direction. An aerial photo will often give this type of bedding area away, as the trees look a lot different from the surrounding super thick cedars... but not always, it pays to watch the top of the treeline for potential change whether you are scouting or hunting. You may not pick off this type of area the first couple of times through...

[Singing Bridge]

Very large cedar swamps also have unique behavior by "transient" bucks during the rut. There are "local" bucks in the interior that spend most of their life there but gun season in super-pressure states have a lot of bucks bee-lining for the big cedar swamp during the evening following the opening day of gun season. I call these bucks "transient" bucks, and they head for the big cedar swamps when pressure heats up. You can literally drive around the exterior of a big cedar swamp after dark following opening day of gun season and have bucks run across the road in front of you headed for deep swamp. They holed-up on opening day when the army of hunters invaded but now they move out. I have a friend that shot a buck with his rifle thirteen years in a row on the second day of gun season between 9am and noon... never on opening day and this was in deep swamp. That is by far too much of a coincidence to not be influenced by the gun season pressure.

You will also here a lot of "yeah, but those bucks are normally younger that relocate like that and they don't have a great security zone in the first place..." maybe, maybe not. Some of those buck that relocate are very mature, but what really happens with the mature buck most of the time is they remember being displaced in years past in this way. They remember the lack of hunter intrusion and scent in the interior of these big cedar swamps from when they were younger and that the swamps contained does that they could interact with while having little interference from hunters- even during gun deer season. The result is that a lot of high ground mature bucks relocate to my swamps around the last week of October, a major shift in bedding. In essence, they have relocated for the rut by remembering the doe families and the lack of pressure from hunters. They shift around the activity of the does right on through November inside these huge swamps. A lot of guys never figure this out.

[Schubox1265]

Good stuff right there, SB. Thanks.

[headgear]

Another thing we take for granted is that when you travel the interior of this sea of green, you watch the treetops for changes in habitat type. A rise in elevation of a foot may not show on the topo, but it may hold hardwoods that are much taller than the surrounding cedars. These islands of "high" ground can lead to edge / travel and bedding. I call them an island even though they are surrounded by cedars / water / muck and almost no visibility. The bucks treat them just like the hardwood island was surrounded by marsh or water, something a lot of cedar swamp hunters never catch on to.

Another great tip SB, I pretty much ignore topo maps when scouting these interior swamps, all you need to know can be found on aerial photos and getting your feet wet. Those tiny elevation changes can be great bedding and never show up on topo maps.

[KLEMZ]

Singing Bridge and headgear, great responses as usual!
My opinion is that cedar swamps and tamarack swamps are so difficult to figure out that most hunters don't even try. Topo maps and aerial photos help some, but these areas tend to be so homogenious that the only way to truly figure things out is to scout on foot. And that takes physical work. Given that, I think cedar and tamarack swamps hold the potential to be home to some of the oldest bucks there are!

About the only thing I feel I can add to the great points already made is that interior dry areas hold the GREATEST potential to be the favored bedding area of mature bucks. More so than bedding next to trees on the outer transitions. I say this because it takes a bit of luck to have various trees on the wet trasnsitions, with dry laying areas, to cover all wind directions within a small enough area to form a "primary" bedding spot. But, with an interior dry area, (not just a dry oval next to a tree, but a whole area that is dry with trees and brush that allows them to bed with cover to their back no matter what the wind), you are likely to find a favorite laying spot for a smart old buck no matter what the wind direction. And that is a buck you can hunt.

[headgear]

Singing Bridge and headgear, great responses as usual!
My opinion is that cedar swamps and tamarack swamps are so difficult to figure out that most hunters don't even try.

Have to agree Klemz, I work several areas that have large tamarack and cedar swamps and they are a puzzle. Sometimes I get lucky and find a bed on a traditional island or clump of high ground or on a transition. However I just know I might be missing the best bedding in the area. A lot of times I find hundreds of beds in these kinds of settings so the deer have tons of options and they might even bed a bit more random knowing they are fairly safe just about anywhere in that kind of mess, the bigger they are the worse it gets. Just have to keep on attacking them.

[dan]

Don't let the "hundreds of beds" fool you... Mature bucks prefer certain features. The transitions and the edges are still where your going to find the mature bucks bedded most of the time. I have a huge tamerack / dogwood swamp with mixed cattails I am hunting with a large number of deer. Although I can find "beds" and trails every where, the biggest bucks almost usually come out of the same sections that have the key bedding ingredients. Sometimes it takes a little more work cause its not easy to see from ground level, but the biggest bucks should lay claim to the transition areas that are remote and lack pressure the most.