Public Land Puzzle

Discuss the science of figuring out our prey through good detective work.
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Singing Bridge
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Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:14 am

Thought it’d be interesting to take a look at a public land puzzle. Check out the rubs, from the same buck and what comes to mind? Young buck, really open cover, is it high pressure or low? The rubs are consistent and you can walk from one to the other. Are you thinking wilderness area, because rub lines like this are rare where you can walk from one rub to another on public land?

This rub line is on heavy pressure public land (not uncommon at all), to the left or west of the rub line is a large thicket that serves as a doe bedding area for a lot of deer- with a prevailing wind, the downwind edge of a doe bedding area. In other words, it goes down the edge of where thick cover hits open cover- a transition line that you hear Dan talk about. Straight behind the rub line a hundred and fifty yards or so away is a marsh with thigh deep water and muck. Out in the marsh are tiny islands the buck uses to bed, one of his favorite core bedding areas.

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When I found the first couple of rubs I said to myself, “two-year old young buck.” The rubs are smooth, without gouging or digging from the base. There’s really no tine marks above the rubs to speak of. But, the size of the trees caught my attention too. The smallest diameter tree was just over 3”, most of the rubs were on even larger trees. Sometimes young bucks like to rub bigger trees than average, I told myself. Plus, there’s a lot of rubs which screams “two year old” too. The bases of the rubs are 20 to 24” above the ground- still thinking two year old. Lastly, I found the bucks fresh tracks on more than one runway. Solid- 4 fingers wide and walking tracks. Hmmm, could this be older than two I asked myself? A three year old or older on heavy pressure public land in Michigan is a target animal, a rare beast unfortunately- this buck would be a target next fall either way.

What’s my final analysis, a big two year old or possibly older? Let’s see, lots of rubs and they are smooth without much tine marking or gouging and the base is just over 20 inches above ground- sure seems like a two year old! But, the trees are consistently larger than two year olds in this area normally pick on, and the tracks are definitely bigger than the average two- I’m going to be an optimist and say he's older than two last fall! By all means, kick in your feedback and opinions!


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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby solocam88 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:06 am

That second rub picture almost looks fake, like the scarring is too straight and perfect on the tree.
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:38 am

solocam88 wrote:That second rub picture almost looks fake, like the scarring is too straight and perfect on the tree.


It does look weird- what you can't see in the pick are some subtle scratches in the rub itself and above and below it. I should call this guy the "Rectangle" buck. :)

When hunters make fake rubs, with a square axe, machete, limb or whatever- they can't help themselves typically and will scratch the tree quite a bit taller than this short little rectangle. I've scouted a couple of other bucks that rub very similar to this.
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:43 am

Rub hight dictates age rather than tree diameter... However after reading this:
The bases of the rubs are 20 to 24”

If your saying by "bases" you mean where the rub starts, I am saying 3 1/2 when the rub was made.
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:35 am

dan wrote:If your saying by "bases" you mean where the rub starts, I am saying 3 1/2 when the rub was made.


Yep, that's what I'm saying- and Dan provided another piece of the puzzle. I also agree that rubs that start over 20" off the ground can also help indicate a three year old- AND that rub height is typically more important than the tree diameter(it's really easy to agree with Dan, isn't it? :) ).
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:47 am

When I talk about rub height I generally refer to the center of the rub rather than the base cause it seems that some bucks rub longer distances up and down trees.
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:11 am

Dan I'm curious as to your opinion on decent sized trees that have been scratched up by bucks, like that third pic. Routine for all bucks, or more of a tendency for younger or older bucks? Usually I find a pretty decent buck in the area when I see this, but I've also had button bucks scratch twigs too.
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:22 am

I would still use hight as the main indicator. I would also try to find a track, and look for small tine marks for other clues....
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby Spysar » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:40 am

What time of year did you find the rubs? Some rubs are weak like they are just trying to get rid of velvet. Some bucks just kind of rub a little scent on the tree. As the urge to breed intensifies the rubs look like a bomb went off. After breeding starts rubbing starts to drop off a bit. It only makes sense that rub height matches the height of the buck. Rubs are just one small peice of the puzzle. You need to find other puzzle peices, or actually see the deer to get a better idea. That's why deer hunting is so much fun. There's lots to interprate about the sign being left and what made it.
A buck will see you three times, and hear you twice, but he's only gonna smell you once.
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby Indianahunter » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:50 am

I am not saying this for sure about these particular rubs, but very large trees that are all shredded up has been an indication of community rubbing in my experience. I have literally watched 5 Bucks come through in one day and rub on the same large tree. However I did notice larger bucks rubbed higher and so I have to agree with Dan on this one. I don't get nearly as excited about large trees being rubbed anymore unless they are really high.
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:05 pm

Indianahunter wrote:I have literally watched 5 Bucks come through in one day and rub on the same large tree.


That must have been something to see, Indiana- 5 bucks hitting the same large tree on the same day- awesome. 8-)
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:19 pm

Spysar wrote:That's why deer hunting is so much fun. There's lots to interprate about the sign being left and what made it.


I couldn't have said it better, Spysar. 8-)
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:31 pm

The thing that makes hunting whitetails so fun is that they are hard to predict. There are no "always" or "never" words in a true deer hunters vocabulary... All we can do is work off of what they do "most" of the time in a given situation.
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby Indianahunter » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:48 pm

It was a really fun day, too bad the biggest buck that day was maybe 95 inches...LOL. Seeing deer is always fun, and watching them behave normally as when you are not there is just awesome for me.
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Re: Public Land Puzzle

Unread postby martin peters » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:37 am

Bridge,,, Nice rubs, especially for a high pressure area. I know you will be putting in some more time on this puzzle if you haven't already got your trees picked out. The rubs....big enough. Four finger wide walking track.....WOW !! If you need me to recon him for you just P.M. the g.p.s. numbers to me and I'll check him out this Oct. for you. :lol: Give me a call when you wack him I think you will need help getting him out. M.P.


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