Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

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phade
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Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby phade » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:29 am

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OK, this is going to be long. LONG.

Been looking at this forum for a few days and this is my first post. Seems like a great place for information and I’m a huge student on the scouting/logistics side of hunting.

This place belongs to my FIL. He sits on only about 7-8 acres of land but we can hunt the corn field and woods south of it. I have shown the big view and the smaller one for comparison. The N/S portion of the road is higher in elevation than either side of the woods by about 25 feet…so there is a drop off going into each woods. No clear indication of deer crossing the road. I’ve just now looked at this to hunt during bow, so I’m drawing on gun season information and a gun season scouting trip.

• Yellow dots: Game cam pics of said mature buck in two consecutive years in October and Late November. Pics are shortly after dark…45 minutes to 1.5 hours.

• Blue dots: Current stand or ground blind sites

• Green dots: Scrapes: the two towards the south appear to be a primary scrape location.

• Purple dots: Rubs. N/S rubs indicate movement to North. E/W rubs indicate movement to East. HOWEVER, some of the N/S line has rubs on the opposite direction – but a 4:1 ratio in favor of northern movement.

• Black dots: Potential stand sites – only trees capable of hanging a stand. Very thick and could not locate a suitable ground blind location except for treestand location in the center of the ground.

• White lines: Travel paths known to date. Likely more...just need to get in there and find the rest.

• Yellow circles: Doe sightings and doe sign – appears to be a lone doe family group of 3-4 each year.

• Red dotted line – hunting foot traffic during gun season – lost cam at yellow dot that meets foot traffic.

• Thin red solid line: THE DEALBREAKER. This is the town/village line. Cannot hunt south of the line. Our property line extends slightly into village and includes the scrape area – but no hunting allowed.

The open marshy sections between the woodline and the canal are reedy and get very tall (over 10 feet). I have not been able to fully explore it because of water. I plan to get in there shortly with good weather and hip boots to traverse it.

The concentration of trails and rubs are in very tight cover – so much so I was on hands and knees much of the time. Could not locate a logical place to set up in that area or access without a ton of disturbance. I can drop in from the road to get to the potential stand site on the N/S trail and access the other potential spot via the trail running parallel to the train. The lack of rubs and scrapes around the center potential stand site kind of tosses me for a loop.

The N/S trail is also tight, but I can hunt it. I can see a fairly long way directly down that trail when leaves start to drop…but the stand tree is tight to the trail and my shot options are going to be limited. This trail is practically invisible to the road because of the elevation.

I did NOT find a bed of any sort. Not buck or doe. Because I don’t see any sign of road crossing, I have to assume this buck is somewhere south of the town line in an area I have not scouted yet. I thought for sure I’d find doe beds in the area around the center potential stand site, especially with no immediate rubs or scrapes…but no dice. The trails there seem a little weaker but do not show any large tracks to make me think the buck uses it.

So, where is he bedding and where else do you see that I can set up (if it is possible to get a ground set or a stand in)? I'm 99% confident the buck is bedding in this section.

I considered the possibility he is bedding across the street, but it is busy car-wise and my family lives right there with no sighting of deer crossings in 20+ years at that juncture - they cross further east along that road, no tracks or trails showing the crossing, the significant elevation change with the road above the woods on either side, and the amount of available cover is good. I suspect the marsh and the small thick brushy area to the west of it is the location.


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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby Bucky » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:16 am

First off welcome :D

I can almost guarantee you the buck is crossing the road at some point. He may be bedding on your 7-8 acres of ground though. The trasition form the woods to the tall cattails is going to be a popular response as to where to look initially.

Can you explain the "lost cam" and hunting foot traffic red lines. Are others hunting surrounding properties? Does it get pressured heavily?
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby phade » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:08 am

Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to participating.

Funny you mention the road issue. I, naturally, thought the same thing. However, I am convinced deer are not crossing over the road in that section with any regularity. There are multiple factors, including the elevation change, the houses, traffic, and imo, something that was interesting once I figured it out...the underpass of the bridge. I've been told of a few instances where deer have been seen going under there. I have not seen it, personally, and sign is difficult to determine because of rail-grade rocks used. My FIL did set up a cam (prior to learning what I know once I scouted it) along the road drop-off to see if they would cross and he did not get a single deer photo during the time he ran it there during October and November. I think the elevation and bridge opening really limit any deer traffic over it - sort of like a fence crossing with one small section being down and deer walking out of their way to cross at that point. I want to set a cam there to witness it, but FIL won't do it due to vagrant traffic along the tracks and theft concerns.

It is actually rural. The village has a few thousand people, but certainly not metropolitan by any stretch. Hunting pressure is moderately high - they will push the adjoining land to the east (up to cornfield) throughout the season.

My inclination was to the black spot site closest to the road in October. If he is bedding along that marsh - and I can't hunt him - I think that's my best shot (unless I am missing something) to intercept him during the last minutes of light if I can get in there unnoticed. He seems to prefer the northern trail leading to corn as that is where most of his pics were taken.

Sign is somewhat weak around the yellow dot you mentioned. That was my initial choice before learning anything about the land on foot. The cam was stolen sometime during the first few days of archery season two seasons ago, hence I think someone bowhunted in there that was not supposed to. Both yellow circles are not bedding areas. They are just signs of doe activity (feeding and staging mainly). If they were bedding areas, the yellow dot would be prime to intercept the buck as the rut swings into gear. Foot traffic is probably highest there on the map than anywhere else after inspection.

I guess all of that leads me to think the marsh is likely the bedding area and possibly the small brushy section to the west of it. Hope that helps. I have to assume there's some dry spot in there that's holding him....until I can confirm it this off-season.

I'm pretty versed in hunting broken woodlots in ag land. This is slighty different for me with marsh ground as I hav enot hunted it since I was a teen, and I'm very open to any suggestions. I'll likely be out there on Saturday morning to walk some of it. Last time I went in there, I almost lost an Alphaburly to the muck by the scrapes...gotta love those moments.
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby Bucky » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:26 am

I see you were able to read my 1st post before I edited... I re-read what you had written and figured there was probably more pressure than I originally thought.

The only way to know for sure if the buck is there is to find a bedding area (sounds like your are already planning this) or to get aggressive with game cameras which can blow your chance at shooting the said deer.

Another trick to figuring out a buck like this is to run cameras immediately after the hunting season = Late Nov/early Dec before they change things up and go into winter survival mode. That way you could push right into suspected bedding and set up a cam... my experience is "mature" bucks will possibly relocate for a time if this is done but will come back (often they don't = they stay right there)

My experience with woodlots that are small such is this one is that they don't take much pressure to alter deer movement through them. So, your black dot right off the road seems like a decent choice based on sign/access. With the rut in full swing I would be tempted to come in off the canal (water) and hunt in the NE or SE (depending on what lies to the South) corner where the woodlot necks down with some type of Westerly wind - again undectable. If pressure is extreme to the East in that woodlot it would change my approach. But plowing through the super thick woodlot to set up on the edge of cattails would be my last resort given this hunting scenario.

Good luck
Last edited by Bucky on Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby phade » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:34 am

The cam onslaught was my preference, too. Losing a cam to theft put my FIL on a tight rope. It was my cam he borrowed and he felt terrible because I told him to pull it before archery opener. I've got the cams to do it. I run about 15 or so at a given time. He just prefers that I don't so he doesn't have to feel like poo again. I told him it wasn't his fault, but still, you know how that goes.

I'm trying to picture your last comment about coming in from the canal path, are you talking about the blue dot closest to the power line? There's a stand there now (used for gun occassionally by the FIL).

I can access almost anywhere there...from the N (houses above the ground are family), the W, and the S. East is possible, too, although I'd need a afternoon set to do that due to a request from a neighbor (doesn't want the truck in driveway while leaving in a.m.).
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby Bucky » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:55 am

I'm talking from the East. I guess you could accomplish the same thing coming in from the North as long as you stay tight to the canal. Skinny spots like this one won't tolerate much foot traffic. I would try to keep foot tracks in the wood lot to a minimum. Sounds like this land has been heavily pressured though in the past with your FIL, you, and possibly others hunting it. In that case the said buck you are hunting has probably seen/smelt many intruders and you might have to go to a Dan Infalt type approach = aggressive to kill him.

Good luck finding his bedding area... from there you can follow the tails out of the cattails, look for a staging area or other locations to ambush, and clear a tree out now. Access sounds difficult though...
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby Ack » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:36 am

If I had to make an educated guess on where this buck is bedded, it would be on that small "island" within the marsh, just south of the solid red line, or by the lone bushes in the SW corner of the marsh. Also, with all of the rubs parallel to the road that buck is probably scent checking for does.....me might be crossing the road, he might not be, but he is definitely making a loop through that area for some reason. When you scout the marsh, be sure to check every clump of cover you can, large or small.....those are going to be the places where he will most likely bed.
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby jlh42581 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:42 am

Never under any circumstance under estimate where a deer will go to seek safety. I watched a buck and three doe's bed in a roundabout this year for the entire rifle season.
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby dan » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:50 am

So, where is he bedding

I marked blue lines and dots where I would expect you to find buck beds...

where else do you see that I can set up

I would not be picking the hunting stand spot without 1st finding the buck bedding, or at least walking the land... I would set up as close to the buck beds as possible after looking from the bucks view and checking his trail to and from bedding.


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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby MOBIGBUCKS » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:08 pm

Welcome to the forum Phade! :)

Out of curiosity, what aerial photo website did you use for those pics of your hunting area? That is way better than what I'm using! I can't find any sites that have wintertime aerials for where I hunt.

Like the others have said, try to walk and find as many beds on that land as possible.
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby phade » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:41 am

Thanks, all. I plan on being out there tomorrow to do some searching.

Dan, you hit on the lone green tree in the middle of the reeds. That stood out to me as one of the places to check out based on some the info I've read on the marsh hunting threads here (someone posted about finding a tree rubbed up at the bedding site and it sorta clicked that that spot might be a bedding location). It will be quite interesting to see if that buck is bedding closer to the canal path as human scent would blow right to him at those blue dots you made. Lots of people would pass him undetected, and it's not an easy place to traverse.

Mo - Yes, that feature is pretty nice to have in an aerial, huh? :mrgreen: Believe it or not, it is Bing maps. I like it better than Google Earth; however, not every area will be as detailed. Go to Bing/Maps, find your area as normal and then click on bird's eye view. Sometimes you have to increase the zoom to get it to switch over from Aerial to Bird's Eye View. You can rotate the vantage points (N/E/S/W)...chances are one of them will have the view when leaves are off. It's not 100% of the time, but often, if Bing has the Bird's Eye View for your ground.

The place in Ohio I hunt is somewhat rural but within 20 minutes of a sizeable city...but it only has the N and S views in Bird's Eye and both are summer time.

If you get a solid Bird's Eye View, sometimes you can pick out the actual stand tree you need to be in. I've killed a few deer by locating trees from that map service. You can actually see deer trails in certain situations, too.
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby MOBIGBUCKS » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:26 am

phade wrote:Thanks, all. I plan on being out there tomorrow to do some searching.

Dan, you hit on the lone green tree in the middle of the reeds. That stood out to me as one of the places to check out based on some the info I've read on the marsh hunting threads here (someone posted about finding a tree rubbed up at the bedding site and it sorta clicked that that spot might be a bedding location). It will be quite interesting to see if that buck is bedding closer to the canal path as human scent would blow right to him at those blue dots you made. Lots of people would pass him undetected, and it's not an easy place to traverse.

Mo - Yes, that feature is pretty nice to have in an aerial, huh? :mrgreen: Believe it or not, it is Bing maps. I like it better than Google Earth; however, not every area will be as detailed. Go to Bing/Maps, find your area as normal and then click on bird's eye view. Sometimes you have to increase the zoom to get it to switch over from Aerial to Bird's Eye View. You can rotate the vantage points (N/E/S/W)...chances are one of them will have the view when leaves are off. It's not 100% of the time, but often, if Bing has the Bird's Eye View for your ground.

The place in Ohio I hunt is somewhat rural but within 20 minutes of a sizeable city...but it only has the N and S views in Bird's Eye and both are summer time.

If you get a solid Bird's Eye View, sometimes you can pick out the actual stand tree you need to be in. I've killed a few deer by locating trees from that map service. You can actually see deer trails in certain situations, too.



Thanks for the tip Phade!! I will check it out.
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby phade » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:37 am

Bringing this back from the dead...been there three times to scout.

Found a buck bed
I know why he is bedding there
I can get to him with the predominant wind and possibly set up on him within pretty close distance.

Problem is getting a shot as he enters and exits this bed from/into the reeds within one step. I'll have to illustrate in a new map later tonight. Bed was located along the reeds and on the blue line Dan noted.

He was there recently, too, lots of winter coat hair in the bed.
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby jlh42581 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:09 am

Cut another spot to shoot now, he will be back on the pattern by fall.
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Re: Here's a Buck Puzzle to Solve...

Unread postby Stanley » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:49 am

Welcome to the Beast.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.


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