Buck Memory???

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Is a buck's memory good or bad???

They can't remember anything hardly at all- I've never seen any indication of a buck using his memory while I was hunting.
2
4%
Bucks appear to have enough memory to remember me nearly killing them when I missed , but that's about it.
2
4%
Bucks have good memories and react to my stand approach, near misses, other hunters before they even begin to arrive...
27
59%
Bucks have excellent memories. They demonstrate this to me often.
15
33%
 
Total votes: 46
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:05 am

Stanley wrote:I could never put a handle on how much a buck remembers or how much is survival instinct. Just about every buck gets killed so their memory is not as good as mine. You can tell they do learn to survive. After gun season where I hunt they are really different than before.


Again Stanley, I lean towards many of your statements - Good Stuff my friend!

Good post SB!!!

I lean towards #3 however, not all deer understand where the shot came from.
Perhaps either just a noise (that could echo around) or a hit/sting from a broadhead...
So to say "pinpoint stand" is possibly a spot/location, per say...?

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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby VT Outfitter » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:41 pm

Justin85 wrote:
VT Outfitter wrote:I believe that deer have a good short term memory, but poor long term memory. Not to say that a mature deer wont show signs of possibly remembering a stand location, it may appear to be that way. I think it has more to do with conditioning of the deer. An example would be a 3 year old buck that has been shot at from a tree stand, ran 20 yards, turn to look at what just happened, to see the hunter in the tree trying to knock another arrow moving around, and then busting out of the area blowing. Blowing will alarm other deer in the area that something went down, even the deer that didn't see the event will avoid that area after hearing the blowing. If this situation happens a few times in a season, deer may develop a habit of avoiding this area during day light hours or be very cautious when they enter the area. Deer, like most animals, are creatures of habit. A fawn follows the adult Doe to learn when and where to go. The glands in the deer feet give indication of who went down a trail and when. This is just my thoughts on the subject, and in no way do I have scientific evidence to back it up. This is my interpretation of my results from mistakes I have made in the past. Anyone have some real science evidence to share?



I think deer are conditioned as well as have some sort of memory. I don't think it's logical reasoning as much as it is conditioning and being habitual.


That said, I don't think your example is quite that accurate, based solely off of experience.

Example: deer #1 blows at me based on noise/sight (not bad wind). More often than not, I'll see more deer that sit, which are perfectly calm and content, that I have ZERO doubt were within ear shot of ole Loud Mouth. I think they often just blow off the blowing deer so to speak as a loud mouth paranoid. Even saw the biggest buck I've swwn while hunting, last year, walking calmly, but in brush, within minutes of one going haywire right before he was in sight.

Sorry for veering off topic....carry on.


Just saying I agree with your theory but not example :D

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Check this out, very funny to me to think about. Straight out of a websters dictionary.

1. remember.To bring to mind or think of again. To keep from forgetting.

2. memory. The power or process of remembering. The store of things remembered. Something remembered. The time within which past events are remembered.

3. condition. To put into proper condition for action or use. To adapt, modify, or mold to respond in a particular way. To modify so that an act or response previously associated with one stimulus becomes associated with another.

My take on this is this: You cant remember if you don't have memory, you cant have memory if you don't have a condition. It seems as though one of these words cant stand by itself alone, it has to involve all three. Thoughts?
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:44 am

VT Outfitter wrote:
Justin85 wrote:
VT Outfitter wrote:I believe that deer have a good short term memory, but poor long term memory. Not to say that a mature deer wont show signs of possibly remembering a stand location, it may appear to be that way. I think it has more to do with conditioning of the deer. An example would be a 3 year old buck that has been shot at from a tree stand, ran 20 yards, turn to look at what just happened, to see the hunter in the tree trying to knock another arrow moving around, and then busting out of the area blowing. Blowing will alarm other deer in the area that something went down, even the deer that didn't see the event will avoid that area after hearing the blowing. If this situation happens a few times in a season, deer may develop a habit of avoiding this area during day light hours or be very cautious when they enter the area. Deer, like most animals, are creatures of habit. A fawn follows the adult Doe to learn when and where to go. The glands in the deer feet give indication of who went down a trail and when. This is just my thoughts on the subject, and in no way do I have scientific evidence to back it up. This is my interpretation of my results from mistakes I have made in the past. Anyone have some real science evidence to share?



I think deer are conditioned as well as have some sort of memory. I don't think it's logical reasoning as much as it is conditioning and being habitual.


That said, I don't think your example is quite that accurate, based solely off of experience.

Example: deer #1 blows at me based on noise/sight (not bad wind). More often than not, I'll see more deer that sit, which are perfectly calm and content, that I have ZERO doubt were within ear shot of ole Loud Mouth. I think they often just blow off the blowing deer so to speak as a loud mouth paranoid. Even saw the biggest buck I've swwn while hunting, last year, walking calmly, but in brush, within minutes of one going haywire right before he was in sight.

Sorry for veering off topic....carry on.


Just saying I agree with your theory but not example :D

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Check this out, very funny to me to think about. Straight out of a websters dictionary.

1. remember.To bring to mind or think of again. To keep from forgetting.

2. memory. The power or process of remembering. The store of things remembered. Something remembered. The time within which past events are remembered.

3. condition. To put into proper condition for action or use. To adapt, modify, or mold to respond in a particular way. To modify so that an act or response previously associated with one stimulus becomes associated with another.

My take on this is this: You cant remember if you don't have memory, you cant have memory if you don't have a condition. It seems as though one of these words cant stand by itself alone, it has to involve all three. Thoughts?


Conditioning isn't possible if memory doesn't exist in the first place.

I have bucks that move into bedding areas around the last week of October / first week of November every year. I believe leaf drop, loss of cover and rising testosterone / doe family locations all are contributors to this "shift". There is no sign whatsoever of the bucks being in the area until this time period, and yet the bucks use the exact same beds / areas as they did the year before. They do not appear to have been "conditioned" to use these beds, rather their memory serves them well as to how to bed safely and interact with the does in these locations. Some of it is instinctual, but some of them move a great distance from their previous range. There are too many factors for long term memory not to exist, in my view.

Every year in Michigan's Upper Peninsula deer biologists document deer moving to "traditional" yarding areas and some of them have moved UNBELIEVABLE distances to be there, the same area as the year before. There are too many weather / environmental variables for the bucks not to know the way by memory.
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby VT Outfitter » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:01 am

Singing Bridge wrote:
VT Outfitter wrote:
Justin85 wrote:
VT Outfitter wrote:I believe that deer have a good short term memory, but poor long term memory. Not to say that a mature deer wont show signs of possibly remembering a stand location, it may appear to be that way. I think it has more to do with conditioning of the deer. An example would be a 3 year old buck that has been shot at from a tree stand, ran 20 yards, turn to look at what just happened, to see the hunter in the tree trying to knock another arrow moving around, and then busting out of the area blowing. Blowing will alarm other deer in the area that something went down, even the deer that didn't see the event will avoid that area after hearing the blowing. If this situation happens a few times in a season, deer may develop a habit of avoiding this area during day light hours or be very cautious when they enter the area. Deer, like most animals, are creatures of habit. A fawn follows the adult Doe to learn when and where to go. The glands in the deer feet give indication of who went down a trail and when. This is just my thoughts on the subject, and in no way do I have scientific evidence to back it up. This is my interpretation of my results from mistakes I have made in the past. Anyone have some real science evidence to share?



I think deer are conditioned as well as have some sort of memory. I don't think it's logical reasoning as much as it is conditioning and being habitual.


That said, I don't think your example is quite that accurate, based solely off of experience.

Example: deer #1 blows at me based on noise/sight (not bad wind). More often than not, I'll see more deer that sit, which are perfectly calm and content, that I have ZERO doubt were within ear shot of ole Loud Mouth. I think they often just blow off the blowing deer so to speak as a loud mouth paranoid. Even saw the biggest buck I've swwn while hunting, last year, walking calmly, but in brush, within minutes of one going haywire right before he was in sight.

Sorry for veering off topic....carry on.


Just saying I agree with your theory but not example :D

[ Post made via Android ] Image



Check this out, very funny to me to think about. Straight out of a websters dictionary.

1. remember.To bring to mind or think of again. To keep from forgetting.

2. memory. The power or process of remembering. The store of things remembered. Something remembered. The time within which past events are remembered.

3. condition. To put into proper condition for action or use. To adapt, modify, or mold to respond in a particular way. To modify so that an act or response previously associated with one stimulus becomes associated with another.

My take on this is this: You cant remember if you don't have memory, you cant have memory if you don't have a condition. It seems as though one of these words cant stand by itself alone, it has to involve all three. Thoughts?


Conditioning isn't possible if memory doesn't exist in the first place.

I have bucks that move into bedding areas around the last week of October / first week of November every year. I believe leaf drop, loss of cover and rising testosterone / doe family locations all are contributors to this "shift". There is no sign whatsoever of the bucks being in the area until this time period, and yet the bucks use the exact same beds / areas as they did the year before. They do not appear to have been "conditioned" to use these beds, rather their memory serves them well as to how to bed safely and interact with the does in these locations. Some of it is instinctual, but some of them move a great distance from their previous range. There are too many factors for long term memory not to exist, in my view.

Every year in Michigan's Upper Peninsula deer biologists document deer moving to "traditional" yarding areas and some of them have moved UNBELIEVABLE distances to be there, the same area as the year before. There are too many weather / environmental variables for the bucks not to know the way by memory.

Conditioning isn't possible if memory doesn't exist in the first place.----That is exactly what I was thinking.
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:14 am

VT Outfitter, your contributions to this thread have been exceptional- appreciate it.

Great posts from the members...
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby JoeRE » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:30 am

I agree that deer have a good short term memory but not as good when months and years go by. You can see the habits of deer change as hunting season progresses...every single year is about the same. That means they definitely don't remember and think "Oh its about that time of year again."

We hunters also sometimes apply human traits like high level deductive reasoning to deer which is definitely not the case. Cognitive function in a deer brain is much less powerful than a human brain, probably by an order of magnitude or more. Deer are not known for their brains in the animal kingdom.
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:36 pm

So far the pole shows a fair amount of respect for a buck's memory. I definitely thought there'd be more votes going toward the "little to no memory" category. Good stuff! 8-)
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:38 am

Excellent read.

I once read in Bugle magazine (Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation) many years ago about animals with more variety in their diets are more intelligent as it adds to higher brain function. The discussion was more about certain species being more intelligent than others not within a certain species. Example: cows eat grass and are not real smart; bear have a varied diet and are way more intelligent than a cow.

I don't know the relationship between memory and intelligence, but I would think a better memory would indicate some intelligence.

Within the deer species I would think there are smarter bucks and not so smart bucks, or ones with better memories. I also think age and experience would increase their memory to a point.

I cant beat Ellie in the memory game anymore (she is 10 now).
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby Terry » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:18 am

I voted that they didn't have a memory, but it's not exactly how I feel. I don't believe they remember specific events. They do however learn from negative experiences and somehow add it to their list of things to be paranoid about. Hard to explain what I am trying to say, hopefully you get it.
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:18 pm

I voted "Bucks have excellent memories. They demonstrate this to me often." I have seen it demonstrated many times over the years. If bucks didn't have good memories they wouldn't learn what they need to know.
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby Terry » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:40 pm

I want to add more to my original response. I do believe they have excellent memory, just not in the sense that we think. Similar to a homing pigeon that can always find it's way home or a salmon returning to it's birth stream. It is not a conscious thought, but more a growth of his instincts.
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby hoyt » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:15 am

Almost all I ever see don't seem to remember how to get back to the same spot. I only see them one time anyway.
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Re: Buck Memory???

Unread postby Bigburner » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:45 am

I think they remember where cameras are :D
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