The school of public land hunting...

[dan]

A long, long time ago, I went on a couple out of state hunts in Illinois, Iowa, and some other great destinations and was having as conversation with a friend about what I observed.
It seemed to me that the hunting was incredibly easy for big bucks in some of these areas, yet the locals were having issues getting one buck down in a season... Me and my friends could go there and easily get into big bucks... My friend expressed he was seeing the same thing.
We both came to the conclusion, that our roots on public pressured land, and even the pressure we received on our private land, made us better hunters.
Guys who learn how to effectively kill mature bucks in heavily hunted public situations are forced to learn how to do every aspect of hunting correctly or fail. What it takes to kill a 2 y/o buck in pressured land, is equivalent to what it takes to take an adult deer on managed land.
You need to learn how to kill, how to draw your bow, how to set up perfectly, you have to learn to set up on top of deer bedding, etc. One error in your plan usually results in failure.
By the time you get all the bugs out of your system and you can kill an occasional beast on public, you really are a killing machine if put on the "easy" grounds.
I often hear people talk about who is the best at killing big bucks... Well, I wouldn't doubt it if "the best" guys are people none of us heard of cause they are stuck someplace like Mid Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc...

[kenn1320]

Interesting topic Dan, and one that seems to show up frequently in one form or another. I have a hard time getting on anything older then 1.5yr olds in Michigan and my out of state hunts are similar. I can walk along and find beds fairly easily. Id like to think I have a clue, but my results dont show that. Ive seen others comment that the locals dont know how to hunt, and it amazes me. There was a topic on here recently about who you would like to hunt with. At this point, I would like to just go out even not hunting and just see what a real buck killer does/thinks and where they would set up, versus what I would do. Im certain the difference between me and the guys that put antler on the wall every year is as simple as arranging the clues and connecting the right dots. However a part of me wants to say its just the ground they are hunting versus the ground Im on. Ive gone too many years for it to just be the ground Im on, gotta put a lot of the blame on myself. I feel confident I could do decent on marsh land, but thats not the terrain I hunt. Still looking forward to some farm land info(small woodlots, big open fields).

[jlh42581]

Interesting topic Dan, and one that seems to show up frequently in one form or another. I have a hard time getting on anything older then 1.5yr olds in Michigan and my out of state hunts are similar. I can walk along and find beds fairly easily. Id like to think I have a clue, but my results dont show that. Ive seen others comment that the locals dont know how to hunt, and it amazes me. There was a topic on here recently about who you would like to hunt with. At this point, I would like to just go out even not hunting and just see what a real buck killer does/thinks and where they would set up, versus what I would do. Im certain the difference between me and the guys that put antler on the wall every year is as simple as arranging the clues and connecting the right dots. However a part of me wants to say its just the ground they are hunting versus the ground Im on. Ive gone too many years for it to just be the ground Im on, gotta put a lot of the blame on myself. I feel confident I could do decent on marsh land, but thats not the terrain I hunt. Still looking forward to some farm land info(small woodlots, big open fields).

I dont know what I was thinking(this is an edit) you signed up over a year ago(i thought recently), have you seen dans offers to go scout as a group?

[jlh42581]

Dan, I think you are correct. If there was no internet, no one would know how good of a hunter spysar is. He shot 4 p&y bucks in one year and lives in NY. Thats dedication, persistence and knowing how to find deer.

[Dewey]

I think anybody that can kill a 2 1/2 + year old buck every year on heavily pressured public land definately knows what they are doing and should be considered a pretty darn good hunter.

I agree with the comment about some of the guys in other states that are great hunters but just don't have the quality deer like some of us here in the midwest do. If they came here I have no doubt they would be successful and kill bigger bucks.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Scot]

Interesting topic! Look forward to some of the commentary.

[Stanley]

Some guys got it some guys don't. There are more hunters that can't get the big one, than there are, that can get the big one. I was talking with a good friend of mine quite a few years ago. He said you arrow a big buck every year how do you do it? I told the guy "I don't shoot small bucks" as I looked at about 25-30 year & half old racks on his wall. The guy looked at me and said you "aren't going to tell me, are you"?
Another friend of mine lost his place to hunt about 20 years ago. I had a spot that 4 bachelor bucks were passing by on a regular basis. It was early October and the bucks were on a feeding a pattern. One buck was a 125 P&Y animal. I told the guy he could hunt that stand as I wasn't interested in taking that buck. I also told the guy it had to be hunted (without question) an East wind. I talked to the guy a couple weeks later said he hunted the stand twice and saw nothing. I asked him what direction the wind was from when he sat the stand. He said "west". I said no more.
Another really good friend of mine told me once "I was just plain lucky". He said "you can sit in a spot and arrow a big buck, I just don't have that kind of luck". I talked to him a couple days later, said "he was going fishing", I said "I'm going deer hunting".
Great topic for discussion.
So in my opinion it's not always the quality of land hunted but the quality of the hunter hunting that land, be it public or private.

[ttsbuck]

I think I can shed some light on this topic. I am 49 years old and did not discover Dan and his method of hunting beds until a few years ago. I always thought that the guys that scored on big ones had some special place to hunt. I spent more time trying to find better places to hunt rather than hunting my places better. I had to unlearn all of the flawed hunted methods I had always used. For instance cheating the wind, making noise on my approach to a stand because I figured any deer that would come my way would come from a long distance, not thinking about ground scent left by me, and over hunting stands. I also found myself hunting sign that I knew others had also found and were hunting. Even after learning and being aware of past mistakes I sometimes find myself relapsing to some of my previous mistakes. I used to hunt a spot only because there was good sign tracks,rubs, and scrapes. This year I have 6 stands ready based on buck bedding. I have my approach planned, and I know the wind direction I need for each and when I should hunt each one. I will hunt hunt each stand no more than twice. I feel pretty confident going into this season.

[PLB]

Dan, I think you are correct. If there was no internet, no one would know how good of a hunter spysar is. He shot 4 p&y bucks in one year and lives in NY. Thats dedication, persistence and knowing how to find deer.

Eric is a great hunter! He also realizes you have to hunt other states every season if you ain't fortunate enough to live in the midwest.

[ Post made via Android ]

[Zap]

The majority of bowhunters hunt the same stands over and over.....
The majority of folks around here add a bait pile at that stand.....

Anyone wanting to pack in/out and scout ready to hunt has a definate higher % of doing well. IMO.

Deer grow old all over the country.....rack size is not an indication of a smart deer, shoot 4yr old and older on a regular basis where you hunt and you are doing good. Regardless of rack score..

Do that regularly on new ground and you are doing very good.

Do that regularly on new public land and you are doing excellant.
The folks that do that put in the time, and have thought it thru........

Kill a nice racked buck every year in the same spot during the rut and you have a good spot.....and a nice buck on the ground.

For me.....I want to be able to pick a spot on a map, get in my vehicle, go there and have a good chance of killing a mature buck...regardless of time of year.

Easier said than done.

[Bucky]

My thoughts are it is a matter of how bad you want it.... The common ingredient between Dan, Spy, Dor, Muddy, RidgeRunner, Stanley, ANinja, and others here is they spend a ton of time hunting in decent locations. Most guys I know with a family hunt weekends and maybe a long week during the rut... When I hunted exclusively public land I think I went 13 days straight before killing my first big one and I wasn't gonna quit until it happened! Killing good bucks year in and year out is constantly on the mind of these hunters... I would bet there are many on this site that got close 2 killing a big one or just made a mistake at the moment of truth... Great hunters make very few killing opportunity mistakes because they are mentally prepared and confident they can make it happen. If not, they work on a particular area of hunting, scouting, stand placement, marksmanship, etc.

I agree a great spot can definitely improve yours odds, but those great spots don't typically fall in your lap, they require researching, physically searching, networking, and sometimes work or $$$ to gain access.... And that guarantees you nothing but an opportunity at better odds.

My 2 cents

[ Post made via iPad ]

[Bucky]

Stanley also made a great point.... If you don't have patience or the restraint to let that 100" one or two year old walk your never gonna get a shot at that 125"+ buck. Same goes for letting a 135" go in hopes of shooting a 150"+.... If your tagged out, you are out of the game in that location. Is it Sept yet... I'm getting the itch bad!

[ Post made via iPad ]

[BigHunt]

Some guys got it some guys don't. There are more hunters that can't get the big one, than there are, that can get the big one. I was talking with a good friend of mine quite a few years ago. He said you arrow a big buck every year how do you do it? I told the guy "I don't shoot small bucks" as I looked at about 25-30 year & half old racks on his wall. The guy looked at me and said you "aren't going to tell me, are you"?
Another friend of mine lost his place to hunt about 20 years ago. I had a spot that 4 bachelor bucks were passing by on a regular basis. It was early October and the bucks were on a feeding a pattern. One buck was a 125 P&Y animal. I told the guy he could hunt that stand as I wasn't interested in taking that buck. I also told the guy it had to be hunted (without question) an East wind. I talked to the guy a couple weeks later said he hunted the stand twice and saw nothing. I asked him what direction the wind was from when he sat the stand. He said "west". I said no more.
Another really good friend of mine told me once "I was just plain lucky". He said "you can sit in a spot and arrow a big buck, I just don't have that kind of luck". I talked to him a couple days later, said "he was going fishing", I said "I'm going deer hunting".
Great topic for discussion.
So in my opinion it's not always the quality of land hunted but the quality of the hunter hunting that land, be it public or private.

good point..... i agree 100 %

you have to want to do it.....

[Spysar]

Dan, I think you are correct. If there was no internet, no one would know how good of a hunter spysar is. He shot 4 p&y bucks in one year and lives in NY. Thats dedication, persistence and knowing how to find deer.

Well thanks Jlh, I'll take that as a compliment. Even though I don't think I'm any better than anyone on here.

I have experienced the same thing as Dan. I wouldn't say that my bucks have been easy though, but I have experienced getting on bucks and the locals are wondering how. Heck last year multiple people called the game warden(he told me) on us after seeing our buck pole...So they had to come check us out. One game warden I already knew because I helped him on another case,(thats another story where the bad guy wound up dead )and the other one I didn't know. Everything was perfectly legite.

Another local from a place I hunt is a great friend. He knows the area like the back of his hand. He's a highway superintendant and drives a lot. Well every year he tells us where new public land has opened, or suggests some small piece of land that might go un-noticed. He also tells us where he's seen big bucks crossing, etc. And every year he is amazed at the bucks we pull out. And then he says he wishes he could get one like that. Well duh! He dosen't even realize that he provided the info! All we did was figure the best access, scout it, and hunt it. I guess that's the hard part?

I don't really attribute my sucess from hunting public ground though. Here in NY my PRIVATE ground is 10 times crappier than PUBLIC ground in the midwest.

I attribute my sucess from the school of hard knocks.

When I started deer hunting, there was no internet, and no one in my family hunted at all.

My success comes from being a lifelong student of the deer and woods. Hunting is somehow in my blood.

I wasn't always a good hunter, in fact, I started out sucking. I was terrible at it. But I never gave up. My many, many failures drove me. I didn't even hunt for big bucks then. Any deer would be a success for me. Heck, I was bowhunting for three years before I realized there were sights for a bow!! I missed SO many deer those first years...I have to laugh now..

So if you want to kill nice bucks, you just need to study what the woods is telling you. You need the desire to do whatever is legally possible. You need to work. And you don't start at the top, you climb to the top.

[dan]

Good post Spy!