WISCONSIN HIRES DR. JAMES KROLL TO HEAD WHITETAIL MANAGMENT

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Re: WISCONSIN HIRES DR. JAMES KROLL TO HEAD WHITETAIL MANAG

Unread postby Hodag Hunter » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:21 am

Dan's plan of balancing the age structure is a good one......but will only come or be accepted with "education".

His anolgy with muskies is some what flawed as this fish is targeted by a loyal following with a vast majority of the caught fish released by this group of fisherman.

Can't hardly use walleye as an example in northern WI as that flat out sucks vs. what it was just 10 years ago. The walleye guys are still in the education phase.......obviously other issues are at play also for the low walleye numbers....... it's just not all "keeping fish" by the hook and line fisherman but education will help.

This "musky revolution" came from great education and like Ken mentioned, took/will take a looong time. Using the musky example......roughly a 15-20 year swing of of releasing fish vs. keeping them by the "target fisherman."

I like the idea of DR. Deer coming in, but don't expect imediate results.

Really would like Dor to be the guy...... so I could get my 25 grand. ;) :mrgreen:


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Re: WISCONSIN HIRES DR. JAMES KROLL TO HEAD WHITETAIL MANAG

Unread postby dan » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:22 am

ozzz wrote:I like the one buck idea.

Maybe you can take one buck and more antlerless deer depending on the population of the area.


Thats exactly what I was trying to get across.. Bucks don't control the population does do. You can keep your numbers in check by giving out doe permits.

There is also the Carrying Capacity that needs to be thought of. So at some level Deer management has to be about the numbers. Now the argument can be at what level to set the numbers. Obviously in some parts of the state (North Woods, CWD zone) the numbers are probably currently too low.


Seriously the population in all of these areas is both high, and low... The areas the current DNR manages are too big for there managment tools. Take my zone for instance, if you look at Rome pond marsh. My guess is that the 3300 acre marsh recieves about 3000 different hunters a year.
There is a private land farmer a couple miles away who has 4000 acres and about 12 hunters.
Both properties were requiring for the last several years each hunter to take a doe before being able to take a buck... So the managment is set for 3000 does to be removed from a marsh that has about 25 does total... And 12 does to come off of a propertie that has 200 does... There needs to be a little more "micro" managment to stop over harvesting certain properties, or types of properies...
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Re: WISCONSIN HIRES DR. JAMES KROLL TO HEAD WHITETAIL MANAG

Unread postby tim » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:55 am

i did not just read dan using the harvest word :lol: u are the big buck serial KILLER not harvester!!! 8-)
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Re: WISCONSIN HIRES DR. JAMES KROLL TO HEAD WHITETAIL MANAG

Unread postby dan » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:57 am

tim wrote:i did not just read dan using the harvest word :lol: u are the big buck serial KILLER not harvester!!! 8-)

Somebody must of edited my post :?
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Re: WISCONSIN HIRES DR. JAMES KROLL TO HEAD WHITETAIL MANAG

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:15 am

dan wrote:
tim wrote:i did not just read dan using the harvest word :lol: u are the big buck serial KILLER not harvester!!! 8-)

Somebody must of edited my post :?

:lol:

This is a subject I would love to talk about around a fire with other Beast members (way to much to type). You guys will probably think I'm full of it (especially Dan ;) ), but I think I could enlighten you a bit on the subject of age and herd structure with out negative economic results. In fact it could actually be done with positive economic results and result in higher hunter satisfaction. Dan is definitely right about the DNR's management tools. They are woefully Inadequate IMO.

I can say one thing that won't take much typing. If I was a deer czar the first thing I would do in Wisconsin is to abolish EAB. Using it on such large areas with varying herd and hunter population dynamics is just plain bad science.
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Re: WISCONSIN HIRES DR. JAMES KROLL TO HEAD WHITETAIL MANAG

Unread postby Hunter74 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:34 pm

I'll be very interested to see what the deer Dr ideas are as well. In another post it was stated that there should not really be a size restriction and I somewhat disagree. I also somewhat disagree with saying that EAB is ineffective it failed miserably in our state because of the way it was conducted with almost no restriction. I believe having a balanced age structure is a great goal as well as having a more balanced buck to doe ratio. Basically I've thought for several years now that we should have sort of like a bonus tag type of system as well as restrictions or penalties put on the type and size deer you shoot. I'm not really advocating an antler size restriction but a restriction from taking yearling or "nub" bucks it made me sick to see so many shot the first couple years of EAB. An example of my idea would be along the lines of you get one tag that's an either sex tag and you can choose to shoot any deer you want. But the restriction would be if you shoot a doe; not an "antlerless" deer than you get a bonus buck tag and are able to shoot a buck as well. Or you can choose to shoot just a buck for the season and be done. The restriction would be a buck is a buck so if you happen to shoot a nub buck your done as well. Of course there would be exceptions to this for first year hunters. And for different zones that have high deer densities there would need to be more doe tags available. In a sense its making hunters think twice before shooting yearling deer because that's what made our EAB fail, it seemed like 50% of the deer being shot were nubs. I think this would be a good way to balance the buck to doe ratio but I don't know how much it would do for balancing the age structure

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