New product - looks innovative!....???

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kenn1320
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby kenn1320 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:01 am

Also think of the HUGE MESS you would have on your hands if you gut shot a deer, heck even a quartering away shot could open up everything.


Think of how much quicker that animal would go down.

Gee with all the negativity on this product, I might just have to order some. The only down side I see is that to work properly they are counting on the entrance hole not allowing the fletching to pass thru it, causing it to strip off and expose the wire/blades. For those worried about a pass thru, "IF" the shot is broadside, your broad head should already be poking out the other side of the animal before the fletchings make contact with the entrance side. This system is 10x better then any of the broad heads that don't open till they are inside, like the swacker or the aftershock heads. At least this is giving you a typical fixed blade hole on the way in, but adding devastating tissue damage on the inside. For a typical perfect shot, I agree its not needed, but if it puts the animal down in half the time, I'm for it. Unfortunately for "ME", I rarely get pass thru's, so this product wouldn't change 90% of my situations. I rarely get perfect broadside shots, but rather like to wait a bit when I can and get a slight quartering away shot. I then put that head thru the lungs and into the opposite shoulder. I break a lot of legs with this shot placement, but am starting to think there are better ways. Its hard for me to purposely aim back, but that would give me pass thru's. Im thinking when I slam that opposite shoulder, the animal gets a kick in the but and heads out of there full boogie. If you get nothing but meat and or tickle a rib, he might only run 30yds and wonder what just happen. Pro's and con's for every situation I suppose.


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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby Stanley » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:33 am

kenn1320 wrote:
Also think of the HUGE MESS you would have on your hands if you gut shot a deer, heck even a quartering away shot could open up everything.


Think of how much quicker that animal would go down.

Gee with all the negativity on this product, I might just have to order some. The only down side I see is that to work properly they are counting on the entrance hole not allowing the fletching to pass thru it, causing it to strip off and expose the wire/blades. For those worried about a pass thru, "IF" the shot is broadside, your broad head should already be poking out the other side of the animal before the fletchings make contact with the entrance side. This system is 10x better then any of the broad heads that don't open till they are inside, like the swacker or the aftershock heads. At least this is giving you a typical fixed blade hole on the way in, but adding devastating tissue damage on the inside. For a typical perfect shot, I agree its not needed, but if it puts the animal down in half the time, I'm for it. Unfortunately for "ME", I rarely get pass thru's, so this product wouldn't change 90% of my situations. I rarely get perfect broadside shots, but rather like to wait a bit when I can and get a slight quartering away shot. I then put that head thru the lungs and into the opposite shoulder. I break a lot of legs with this shot placement, but am starting to think there are better ways. Its hard for me to purposely aim back, but that would give me pass thru's. Im thinking when I slam that opposite shoulder, the animal gets a kick in the but and heads out of there full boogie. If you get nothing but meat and or tickle a rib, he might only run 30yds and wonder what just happen. Pro's and con's for every situation I suppose.


Two negatives never make a positive. ;)
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby kenn1320 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:32 am

Two negatives never make a positive. ;)


Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.... :lol:
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby GRUD » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:39 am

did I miss something? What is technology? :lol:
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby dan » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:07 am

I wonder how you target practice with them?
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby kenn1320 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:29 am

I wonder how you target practice with them?


Same as any other arrow. If your blowing thru the target right now, your ruining your fletchings and need a better/new target. If you blow thru with this your target is finished. :lol: I emailed the company asking some more questions, haven't heard back from them. I'm assuming those wires are razor wire the full length, but would like to know for sure. A big concern would be gutting the animal if it was still inside and no exposed shaft. You would have to be very careful. I noticed they are not recommended for standard rests or whisker biscuit containment type rests. I don't think they would work well with my rest. :(
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:42 pm

Whats funny, is I bet, most (maybe all of the people with questions or comments) DID NOT play any of the video clips to answer your questions... Yes including you Dan...

How did compound bows come to fruition?
As an example should Forge should go out of business --> it's not a conventional bow according to the hearty old time recurvers out there.
Fingers verses releases?
Climbing sticks?
Expandable broad heads?
I guess I could go on about innovation and reasons why innovation happens, but most of you got it all figured out :mrgreen:

I believe all the questions (IF you read carefully or pay attention to detail) are answered, however, if you KISS through the website ;) , I'm sure you'll miss it's intent whether you agree or not doesn't hurt my feelings any
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby dan » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:29 am

Ok Ed, you got me cause I had not taken the time to look at the videos... To be fair, I went back and did so...
I would still worry a bit about safety shooting. I was surprised by the accuracy, but noticed a difference between arrow groups which would force a guy to practice with and sight in with the hunting set up...
As far as "devastating killing power" the deer did not drop quick, it got a 100 yards similar to when I put my muzzy thru it. The turkey did not get a pass thru and survived long enough to get a little way. My point with that is if you get a pass thru in a non-lethal area it will stop in the meat and not pass thru leaving the arrow inside the game causing a slow infection death rather than the possibility of healing.
I do think it solves some of the issues with expandables and penetration by using a fixed head, but I foresee some yahoos out there using this with expandable heads.
I read your comparison to compounds vs stick bows, and somewhat agree. But I was born and raised in the compound era, now I am not that into change, or improving what already works great for me.
For my style of hunting, I don't think I would kill any more deer than I kill now using it. When a deer I want to shoot gets in range and offers a shot I know I can make I take it... I am not going to take my shots any different because of that arrow/nock. It don't extend my range... If you want to try it, go ahead... I would be interested in your report afterwords.
Also, me personally, I never rush out and buy something that is brand new on the market... Working in the proto-type design industry and thru years of using stuff whether its hunting or cameras or whatever has taught me that company's that have money invested in product development rush out to get money back from those products and sell them to the open public to fast before adequate testing has been done.
I would wait a year or two for all the bugs to come out if I were interested, which Im not...
I have no offense to those who want to try it, or to the manufacture. Just have my doubts, and not really into big wound channels. Its more of a chess game for me, and if the buck don't offer the shot I know I can make with my equipment, I don't take it.
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby Stanley » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:49 am

Edcyclopedia wrote:Whats funny, is I bet, most (maybe all of the people with questions or comments) DID NOT play any of the video clips to answer your questions... Yes including you Dan...

How did compound bows come to fruition?
As an example should Forge should go out of business --> it's not a conventional bow according to the hearty old time recurvers out there.
Fingers verses releases?
Climbing sticks?
Expandable broad heads?
I guess I could go on about innovation and reasons why innovation happens, but most of you got it all figured out :mrgreen:

I believe all the questions (IF you read carefully or pay attention to detail) are answered, however, if you KISS through the website ;) , I'm sure you'll miss it's intent whether you agree or not doesn't hurt my feelings any

I watched the videos. My concerns are the hunter getting hurt field dressing, with those thing in there.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby Zap » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:56 am

There is a video?





:lol:
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby Stanley » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:27 am

Zap wrote:There is a video?





:lol:

Plural.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:26 am

dan wrote:Ok Ed, you got me cause I had not taken the time to look at the videos... To be fair, I went back and did so...
I would still worry a bit about safety shooting. I was surprised by the accuracy, but noticed a difference between arrow groups which would force a guy to practice with and sight in with the hunting set up...
As far as "devastating killing power" the deer did not drop quick, it got a 100 yards similar to when I put my muzzy thru it. The turkey did not get a pass thru and survived long enough to get a little way. My point with that is if you get a pass thru in a non-lethal area it will stop in the meat and not pass thru leaving the arrow inside the game causing a slow infection death rather than the possibility of healing.
I do think it solves some of the issues with expandables and penetration by using a fixed head, but I foresee some yahoos out there using this with expandable heads.
I read your comparison to compounds vs stick bows, and somewhat agree. But I was born and raised in the compound era, now I am not that into change, or improving what already works great for me.
For my style of hunting, I don't think I would kill any more deer than I kill now using it. When a deer I want to shoot gets in range and offers a shot I know I can make I take it... I am not going to take my shots any different because of that arrow/nock. It don't extend my range... If you want to try it, go ahead... I would be interested in your report afterwords.
Also, me personally, I never rush out and buy something that is brand new on the market... Working in the proto-type design industry and thru years of using stuff whether its hunting or cameras or whatever has taught me that company's that have money invested in product development rush out to get money back from those products and sell them to the open public to fast before adequate testing has been done.
I would wait a year or two for all the bugs to come out if I were interested, which Im not...
I have no offense to those who want to try it, or to the manufacture. Just have my doubts, and not really into big wound channels. Its more of a chess game for me, and if the buck don't offer the shot I know I can make with my equipment, I don't take it.


All I asked from everyone on my last comment was simply understand before casting a judicial view points.

Dan - you have a few good observations and thank you for making a more educated stab the second time around. Believe it or not you have a cult following that listenes to every word you type like its gospel. I know you may think differently, but some readers may not.
I too never buy anyting the first year or two as I've been burned numerous times in my unwise adolecence and is why I mentioned testing first...

Bottom line is... If we never have a deer jump a string or are ever off target more than 1-2" we wouldn't need to have broadheads over 1 3/16" diameter either. Why have a bigger broadhead?
Why faster bows if we hunted at 30 yards.
Oh-Yeah --> to increase our odds - hmmm:)
Expect the Unexpected when you least Expect it...
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:30 am

[/quote]I watched the videos. My concerns are the hunter getting hurt field dressing, with those thing in there.[/quote]

After I knicked my first knuckle badly on a broadhead that found the far shoulder of my kill I started to pay attention to those sharp things when I didn't find a complete pass through. :lol:
Kind of like when someones breaks a glass in their home and cuts themselves, the second time around usually goes a little smoother and with less blood on their kitchen floor:)
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Re: New product - looks innovative!....???

Unread postby Stanley » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:03 am

Edcyclopedia wrote:
I watched the videos. My concerns are the hunter getting hurt field dressing, with those thing in there.[/quote]

After I knicked my first knuckle badly on a broadhead that found the far shoulder of my kill I started to pay attention to those sharp things when I didn't find a complete pass through. :lol:
Kind of like when someones breaks a glass in their home and cuts themselves, the second time around usually goes a little smoother and with less blood on their kitchen floor:)[/quote]
True that.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.


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