thoughts on Earn a Buck??

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Rutnstrut
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby Rutnstrut » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:41 am

"From everything I just read on Wisconsin, the heard was almost double the population goals back in 2000. They estimated 1.8m deer and wanted that number dropped to 1m. Now in 2010 post hunting season, many parts of your state are still well over the population goals, while some areas are under."
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wil ... nt_pop.pdf

That is of course assuming that their pop estimates were correct, which they were not and are not now.


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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby dan » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:55 am

Interesting the data doesnt break down the license sales by age, but the trend seems to be fairly consistent. Wisconsin is not loosing hunters any faster then the other states. I hear people in Michigan say the same thing,


I really don't care what the "data" says... I know that both my sons just about gave up hunting because of going a whole season not able to shoot a doe just to earn the right to do what they are really out there for... Both would of shot does had they come in, but really a kid is dreaming of that big buck that could come around the corner at any second... And lets hope it really don't, because they are not allowed to kill it, even if it would be there very 1st deer...

if they cant shoot a buck, they dont want to hunt. Pretty sad outlook on hunting if you ask me.......

I don't know what planet your from, but if you told me I couldn't ever shoot bucks again I wouldn't hunt... Matter of fact, condem me for not wanting to just hunt does, but if they outlawed me being able to shoot 6 year old bucks or older I would quit hunting right now... What would be the point? I might never shoot another 6 year old or older buck in my life... But really, thats what I am dreamoing about when I hunt. Matter a fact, some people like beef better than venison and really don't like killing things, but do enjoy buck hunting... Who the hells buisness is it to tell them they have to murder a doe in order to hunt?
My son James has not bow hunted in a couple seasons because of this crap and is just now strarting to get a renewed interest if I take him on my road trips cause the EAB area is not for him. Dan Jr has not hunted in years after it started getting so tough...
EVERYBODY has different reasons for why they hunt and what they kill. And if you ask me its going a little to far for the DNR to mandate that they change there beliefs and traditions.


If the numbers are low, dont shoot any. The DNR is responsible for selling permits to get the population where they want it, but it is the hunters who pull the trigger. All to often they dont realize they are managers of the herd, and if given rope, many will hang themselves.

So we should all quit hunting because of a bad politition running our DNR?

Nobody is forced to kill a deer.

So we should all quit hunting ??? See I don't agree with telling someone "NO ONE FORCED YOU TO KILL THAT DOE" I don't think that no one should be forced to give up a season because of horrific managment.


The goal was to lower the population and until they came out with EAB, the hunters were not getting the job done


Well there goal was wrong, and the people dissagreed with killing deer for insurance purposes rather than managment, and the people were managing the way felt was correct.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT IF YOU WANT THE POPULATION LOWERED THAT BAD JUST GIVE OUT 10 FREE TAGS WITH EACH LICENSE RATHER THAN CHARGING FOR THEM... PEOPLE IN AREAS THAT HAVE LARGE POPULATIONS WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT THEMSELVES. I PERSONALLY DON'T NEED A POLITITION TELLING ME HOW I SHOULD HUNT WHAT I AM REQUIRED TO KILL.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby BackWoodsHunter » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:00 pm

Rutnstrut wrote:"From everything I just read on Wisconsin, the heard was almost double the population goals back in 2000. They estimated 1.8m deer and wanted that number dropped to 1m. Now in 2010 post hunting season, many parts of your state are still well over the population goals, while some areas are under."
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wil ... nt_pop.pdf

That is of course assuming that their pop estimates were correct, which they were not and are not now.



That's also assuming our DNR doesn't do the majority of this backwards...but wait they do!
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby DropTyne » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:23 pm

goldtip5575 wrote:Another downfall of EAB was it made honest hunters dishonest.Picking up roadkills,same doe reg.more than once,tagging other people does that didnt need EAB stickers.Or just plain and simple shooting a mature buck and having someone else tag it.How many of you would let a 180 inch pass just cuz you didnt have an EAB sticker?


I have a few things I would like to touch on in regards to this. First and foremost I have an acquaintance that actually shot a 190"+ buck that did not have a earn a buck sticker. It was opening day, it was the first deer he saw. He proceeded to drive the buck in the bed of his truck and registered it in a non earn a buck area. Long story short he got caught, he was 18 years old at the time, a neighbor and a few trail cam pics got him caught. He is a good guy, works hard, and was raised right, but the situation was too much to handle. Luckily for him the dnr officer had mercy on his soul. Do I defend his actions? No, the law is the law. Does it make sense that he was not allowed legally to shoot that buck while just 20 miles up the road he could have legally shot that buck all day? Not at all, at least not to me.

Would I do the same thing he did? I would like to think i wouldn't, but please don't tempt me...........

The next thing I would like to address is this:

I personally feel that standard EAB can be sound management, but UNLIMITED EAB like what is going on in the CWD zone is tragic. They are completely different

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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby lungbuster » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:39 pm

I have no problem with EAB so long as kids under 18 are allowed to kill whatever they wish.......... For my situation EAB allowed me to thin our herd of too many does and allowed me to fill the freezer, now I did not go willy nilly and kill as many does as I could, I took an assesment of our herd and determined what I felt was an appropriate number of does to take each year. These were doe fawns and adult does only (no button heads) and even though I had multiple buck tags each year, I used only 2 per year max, (most years I didn't kill the buck I was after and didn't punch a buck tag).

Now I have private land so my situation is much different than those hunting public, if I were hunting pulic with EAB , my thoughts on the subject would no doubt be different.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby magicman54494 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:46 pm

lungbuster wrote:I have no problem with EAB so long as kids under 18 are allowed to kill whatever they wish.......... For my situation EAB allowed me to thin our herd of too many does and allowed me to fill the freezer, now I did not go willy nilly and kill as many does as I could, I took an assesment of our herd and determined what I felt was an appropriate number of does to take each year. These were doe fawns and adult does only (no button heads) and even though I had multiple buck tags each year, I used only 2 per year max, (most years I didn't kill the buck I was after and didn't punch a buck tag).

Now I have private land so my situation is much different than those hunting public, if I were hunting pulic with EAB , my thoughts on the subject would no doubt be different.


What you described could have been done without EAB. The same thing could have been done just by allowing extra antlerless tags.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby dan » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:34 pm

What you described could have been done without EAB. The same thing could have been done just by allowing extra antlerless tags.

Exactly what I was thinking... I also have an issue with a guy owning a farm and having to manage the herd, or destroy the herd the way the DNR thinks he should... Oh yea, thats right, he should just give up hunting if his $250,000 hunting property if it can only support buck hunting at the moment... Right? Cause the DNR is not making him pull the trigger.

Don't take no offense, just trying to get my point across, "careful, what you wish for"
I thought EAB sounded good too when I 1st heard about it... But its not.
EAB is better a tool each land owner can impliment with his hunters and decide if a kid is exempt, and exactly how many does should or could be taken... Each property is different and can support a different number taken.

Think about it like this, you have 60 acre property and 4 hunters, two that have a kid that comes along. On any given year aproximatly one or two bucks get shot... Now, no bucks can get shot unless each person shoots a doe. Each hunter is hunting the property way more than he should just to make his requirment, and 60 acres can't support 6 does a year being killed, not to mention the ones not recovered... And then you got the neighbors on each side with simalar size propertys and twice as many hunters and the one or two that shoot extra does besides there EAB requirement and soon, you have no deer.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby kenn1320 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:26 pm

What you described could have been done without EAB. The same thing could have been done just by allowing extra antlerless tags.


Yeah that has worked real well in parts of Michigan. They sell unlimited doe tags and don't have a means to protect bucks. So your neighbors shoot their 1.5yr old bucks, and at the end of the season shoot all the does. Bummer EAB wasn't in those areas, then at least a couple bucks might have made it thru. :(

Dan you said if I don't hunt Wisconsin I wouldn't understand and I can appreciate that. However your shooting big bucks all the time, and I don't even see em driving down the road, let alone in the woods hunting or getting one. Ive been at this for 28yrs and haven't even gotten lucky one time, yet watch every Tom, Dick, and Harry shooting 1.5yr bucks like its going out of style. Guess I'm just frustrated and am ready for the DNR in Michigan to do something, anything.............The way my hunting seasons have gone, I despise opening day of gun season. It pretty much means, now you wont even see a 1.5yr old buck to amuse you while you are in the stand. Heck even our does head for a hole somewhere. And to think I'm one of those "lucky SOB's" who gets to hunt "private land".
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby dan » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:55 pm

I hear you ken, but the way to get mature bucks is not to kill more deer, its to limet buck harvest... One buck rule and education would be a better option.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby GRUD » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:36 am

Indiana states they do not manage for trophies, only herd management.

The proposal is for Urban Areas only, from Sept 15-30. Outside these dates you can kill your buck with your regular license. If you kill a buck, you can try and harvest an Urban Doe which earns you an Urban Buck with archery.

I feel this is reasonable since it only affects the urban zones with archery for a couple of weeks. This is proposed because guys just keep shooting the urban bucks and never taking any does out of these areas.

I still would rather they leave it alone. It seems that people just dont want to shoot does though. Over 500 deer vehicle collisions in my county per year.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby Southern Man » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:46 am

kenn1320 wrote:
What you described could have been done without EAB. The same thing could have been done just by allowing extra antlerless tags.


Yeah that has worked real well in parts of Michigan. They sell unlimited doe tags and don't have a means to protect bucks. So your neighbors shoot their 1.5yr old bucks, and at the end of the season shoot all the does. Bummer EAB wasn't in those areas, then at least a couple bucks might have made it thru.


I disagree with that. If a hunter wants to shoot 1.5 yo bucks, then that's his right. Alot of people do here. Just because I choose not to, doesn't mean people people should be forced to my way of thinkin. It just doesn’t work that way….except for gays and abortions. Not everyone is into big horn huntin. That's no different than EAB forcing you to kill does to get a buck, actually worse in my opinion. Older bucks may be scarce but they're there somewhere. Hunt where they are.

In my end of KY we have 1 buck tag, I repeat 1. And unlimited does. A regular deer permit comes with 1 buck and 1 doe permit. You can buy 2 antlerless more for $10 and as many of those as you want. That 1 buck tag is coveted. Alot of people make it count or have tag soup for the year. Accordoing to the last meeting with the game dept, we're doing good with doe harvest....for now. Our 1.5 yo buck harvest is still high, higher than they want, but the doe harvest runs at about 60%. The herd here is doin well and 3.5 yo bucks are pretty common in alot of areas.

Dan said it best. Limit buck harvest and more education.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby dan » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:30 am

Indiana states they do not manage for trophies, only herd management.

Sound deer managment manages for a diverse age group... If 80% of your bucks are 1.5 or younger they are not managing properly.
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby dan » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:37 am

Funny thing is, the DNR can manage fish properly with size limits and slot size and can turn an average lake into a fairly decent fishery. But they just can't understand how to manage whitetails.
Private land owners have managed there herds awesome, despite the DNR, but the DNR can't even open its eyes to see that...
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby kenn1320 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:40 am

I disagree with that. If a hunter wants to shoot 1.5 yo bucks, then that's his right. Alot of people do here. Just because I choose not to, doesn't mean people people should be forced to my way of thinkin. It just doesn’t work that way….except for gays and abortions. Not everyone is into big horn huntin. That's no different than EAB forcing you to kill does to get a buck, actually worse in my opinion. Older bucks may be scarce but they're there somewhere. Hunt where they are.

In my end of KY we have 1 buck tag, I repeat 1. And unlimited does. A regular deer permit comes with 1 buck and 1 doe permit. You can buy 2 antlerless more for $10 and as many of those as you want. That 1 buck tag is coveted. Alot of people make it count or have tag soup for the year. Accordoing to the last meeting with the game dept, we're doing good with doe harvest....for now. Our 1.5 yo buck harvest is still high, higher than they want, but the doe harvest runs at about 60%. The herd here is doin well and 3.5 yo bucks are pretty common in alot of areas.


And again, KY is one of the best up and coming sleeper states for big bucks, and nowhere near the hunter density that Michigan has. Its not a persons "right" to shoot any deer, its a privilege that can be taken away at any time. As long as the laws do not protect some or all of those 1.5yr old bucks, then your point is valid, they can shoot it and its nobodys business but theirs. Unfortunately Michigan isnt crawling with 3.5yr old bucks like KY is. PA is about as close of a comparison to MI as you can get and they went from one of the worst states to the top 10 with APR's. Funny how people will complain you cant tell me what buck to shoot, but when they put a size limit on fish, thats ok. What about no spike rule for elk, thats ok, but dont tell me I cant shoot a whitetail deer if it has spikes. Just peoples perceptions I guess.

Dan I agree EAB isnt the perfect solution, but even if its half a step in the direction of protecting bucks Im willing to accept it. Mi talked about OBR, but they cant figure out how to make up for the lost revenue. They talked about raising the license cost(currently one of the cheapest in the US) $1 and the hunters raised about it. Many want their cake, but dont want to pay for it. If I were King for a day, Id love to have buck hunting on even years only. Boy talk about a diverse age structure in about 3yrs. Of course many would not hunt the odd years.............
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Re: thoughts on Earn a Buck??

Unread postby BackWoodsHunter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:47 am

kenn1320 wrote:
I disagree with that. If a hunter wants to shoot 1.5 yo bucks, then that's his right. Alot of people do here. Just because I choose not to, doesn't mean people people should be forced to my way of thinkin. It just doesn’t work that way….except for gays and abortions. Not everyone is into big horn huntin. That's no different than EAB forcing you to kill does to get a buck, actually worse in my opinion. Older bucks may be scarce but they're there somewhere. Hunt where they are.

In my end of KY we have 1 buck tag, I repeat 1. And unlimited does. A regular deer permit comes with 1 buck and 1 doe permit. You can buy 2 antlerless more for $10 and as many of those as you want. That 1 buck tag is coveted. Alot of people make it count or have tag soup for the year. Accordoing to the last meeting with the game dept, we're doing good with doe harvest....for now. Our 1.5 yo buck harvest is still high, higher than they want, but the doe harvest runs at about 60%. The herd here is doin well and 3.5 yo bucks are pretty common in alot of areas.


And again, KY is one of the best up and coming sleeper states for big bucks, and nowhere near the hunter density that Michigan has. [glow=red]Its not a persons "right" to shoot any deer, its a privilege that can be taken away at any time.[/glow] As long as the laws do not protect some or all of those 1.5yr old bucks, then your point is valid, they can shoot it and its nobodys business but theirs. Unfortunately Michigan isnt crawling with 3.5yr old bucks like KY is. PA is about as close of a comparison to MI as you can get and they went from one of the worst states to the top 10 with APR's. Funny how people will complain you cant tell me what buck to shoot, but when they put a size limit on fish, thats ok. What about no spike rule for elk, thats ok, but dont tell me I cant shoot a whitetail deer if it has spikes. Just peoples perceptions I guess.

Dan I agree EAB isnt the perfect solution, but even if its half a step in the direction of protecting bucks Im willing to accept it. Mi talked about OBR, but they cant figure out how to make up for the lost revenue. They talked about raising the license cost(currently one of the cheapest in the US) $1 and the hunters raised about it. Many want their cake, but dont want to pay for it. If I were King for a day, Id love to have buck hunting on even years only. Boy talk about a diverse age structure in about 3yrs. Of course many would not hunt the odd years.............



I think if the DNR took away this "privelege" to hunt then they'd have a real management issue on their hands....


Also, I think you are missing the point on EAB it is NOT a step in any direction but backwards...the only way it may benefit you is that it would keep frustrated hunters out of the woods but that would be AFTER 5-6yrs of slaughter when the woods have even LESS deer than you have now. You wouldn't see any of the guys you complain about driving around with the 1.5yr old bucks they shot because the year before they would have shot off all the nubbins and there won't even be any young bucks. EAB is not a step, half step, or any form of progression in the way of proper deer management, quality deer management or big buck management.
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