Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

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<DK>
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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby <DK> » Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:53 am

That varies based on the region, deer population and terrain. Not everyone sees the same thing and some places in the country its just not going to work like it does for others..

There are multiple collar studies that show that they can bed in many different specific spots but can still be the same general area.

I havent listened yet but did he mention if they went through and checked the wind direction for each bed spot ? Even if they did, if its hill country then it may not be accurate based on the spot he lives.


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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby dan » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:40 pm

Im working on a study right now and a camera watched one bed for several months within a bedding area... So, clearly, the target buck can be there, but not be caught on the camera... The target buck was caught in the bed 5 days during the 2021 season. That may sound "random" but when you factor in that this bed is best during a rut phase. I figure rut just starts getting interest around here oct 15th... thats the date I start morning hunting more... And I think it ends near Nov 15th... yes it still goes on after that, but not with the same intensity. least not around here. so when you figure that the target buck was in that bed 5 days out of that 30 day period, thats a 1 in 6 chance of killing it if you hunt within that window. And thats "IF" IT DID NOT BED ONE OF THE OTHER BEDS AND NOT SHOW ON THE CAMERA. Which I am sure happened as many times as he did get caught on camera which would make it 1 out of 3 odds... Any way you slice it, 1 out of 6, or 1 out of 3. Those odds are pretty good for a guy hunting 10 or 20 spots/bucks like that a year...
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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby Chuck B » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:48 am

dan wrote:Im working on a study right now and a camera watched one bed for several months within a bedding area... So, clearly, the target buck can be there, but not be caught on the camera... The target buck was caught in the bed 5 days during the 2021 season. That may sound "random" but when you factor in that this bed is best during a rut phase. I figure rut just starts getting interest around here oct 15th... thats the date I start morning hunting more... And I think it ends near Nov 15th... yes it still goes on after that, but not with the same intensity. least not around here. so when you figure that the target buck was in that bed 5 days out of that 30 day period, thats a 1 in 6 chance of killing it if you hunt within that window. And thats "IF" IT DID NOT BED ONE OF THE OTHER BEDS AND NOT SHOW ON THE CAMERA. Which I am sure happened as many times as he did get caught on camera which would make it 1 out of 3 odds... Any way you slice it, 1 out of 6, or 1 out of 3. Those odds are pretty good for a guy hunting 10 or 20 spots/bucks like that a year...



And, if you haven’t already, you need to factor in wind on those days. He might have only bedded there on predominately northernly winds (for example). And if so, it could be much more predictable.
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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby Coalcracker » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:20 am

Bio1 wrote:So I had access to collar data for an older buck that I was able to follow on a daily basis that had a point taken every 2 hours. I found that buck had 13 different “beds” he used with some regularity and they did indeed change with food and pressure and the rut (he shifted a decent way during rut and came back after rut) and was also wind based to some degree. I say “beds” as some were worn and others were not as discernible. It was fun to pull him up in the morning while I was drinking coffee and guess where he would be bedded. I was right about 1/2 the time based on the wind. In the summer of his 5th year the collar died. I still got him on camera a couple more years after that and knew it was him due to his ear tag even though the collar dropped off. This dude lived on public his whole life (at least when the collar was active and he was darted on public originally). I never did hear of anyone killing him but I quit getting him on camera so who knows? I learned a of a lot from him for sure. I am sure he wasn’t getting passed by hunters as he was pretty damn nice - he just had things figured out. Unfortunately the battery life is only a couple years on those collars. I would loved to have followed him til he died.

Bio1


You happen to be part of the PSU study?

I've looked at countless radio collar examples from their studies over the years and many of those involved bucks over 2.5 years old, some into mature ages on public land. They certainly show "home" turf in the fall with expanded range for the rut and generally a lot less movement once rifle season starts. Some of the bucks also had "hideouts" once rifle started. The "hillside" doe example was also very intriguing and one in which researchers actually walked in to the general area and took pics of where she hid during bear/deer rifle season. Its funny to watch some of them and see when bear season starts. Lines running, sure can tell when a drive came through. Helpful information and another tool we can use if we choose. The bed hunting approach has grown on me a great deal. I'll keep scouting and hunting like I've been the last couple seasons. It works.
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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby Bio1 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:37 am

Coalcracker - I am not. I’ve worked with a number of universities over the years as a wildlife biologist and have helped out some of the deer researchers with study sites/darting deer, etc. on various projects. I’ve read the PSU studies you referenced. All interesting stuff!

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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby dan » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:39 pm

Chuck B wrote:
dan wrote:Im working on a study right now and a camera watched one bed for several months within a bedding area... So, clearly, the target buck can be there, but not be caught on the camera... The target buck was caught in the bed 5 days during the 2021 season. That may sound "random" but when you factor in that this bed is best during a rut phase. I figure rut just starts getting interest around here oct 15th... thats the date I start morning hunting more... And I think it ends near Nov 15th... yes it still goes on after that, but not with the same intensity. least not around here. so when you figure that the target buck was in that bed 5 days out of that 30 day period, thats a 1 in 6 chance of killing it if you hunt within that window. And thats "IF" IT DID NOT BED ONE OF THE OTHER BEDS AND NOT SHOW ON THE CAMERA. Which I am sure happened as many times as he did get caught on camera which would make it 1 out of 3 odds... Any way you slice it, 1 out of 6, or 1 out of 3. Those odds are pretty good for a guy hunting 10 or 20 spots/bucks like that a year...



And, if you haven’t already, you need to factor in wind on those days. He might have only bedded there on predominately northernly winds (for example). And if so, it could be much more predictable.

exactly
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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby Lockdown » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:15 am

Great thread!

I have ran cameras over beds multiple times and the results have always surprised me. Way less use than I figured. I did have one cam on an exit trail 10’ away from a bed that got a good buck leaving right at dusk with a fair amount of regularity. Then we hunted it and he never came back.

This was a bed in a fence line where it intersected with a low spot. Nice little buck bed tucked in there. It was not secure AT ALL. Early season bedding that saw use when the corn was standing.

That property ended up getting all the trees cleared off it the following year due to a waterfowl program, so I never got to research any further.
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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby Trout » Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:03 am

I've heard the experienced guys on here say more times than I can count that, "mature bucks don't do anything on accident." I think anytime you don't understand something, it's easy to say it was a random event, but after you ask questions and put more of the pieces together, you find out that these deer are sly as foxes. I watched a YouTube video of a bear chasing a buck the other day on the edge of a golf course and the camera guy was in a spot he could get the whole thing on film. That buck put in 1/10th the energy of that bear did and easily got away. That buck could see the bear the whole time and put himself in a position where he could predict what the bear was going to do and then react accordingly. These deer are masters of survival.

A buck with few bedding options would make it easier to predict beds, but it would also be an easy animal to hunt so he wouldn't last long, but he would last longer than you'd think just by shear familiarity with his surroundings and how to use them to his advantage. All of that is anything but random.
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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:16 am

I've run a lot of cameras, hunted a lot of states and Id say it varies based on a lot of variables.... overall I think mature bucks vary their beds within several core bedding areas far more often than using the same bed in most of the states I've hunted. Honestly, if a buck uses the same bed over, and over, and over, and is using a consistent food source like in ag areas, and the hunter has that knowledge in advance, that buck should be dead more times than not.
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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby MichiganMike » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:22 pm

To me I guess it depends on the age class of buck your hunting. I didn’t listen to the podcast but if he’s talking 2.5 or 3.5 year olds during rut, then yeah it’s probably fairly unpredictable. But an older buck, I don’t think it’s that unpredictable. They’ll Stick to a core area where their safe and secure. Closer to rut they’ll position where does are moving through , but typically it’s not outside of their core area. They know what’s going on, what time of year, where to position, when to move and when not to.
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Re: Buck bedding randomness, too unpredictable to hunt ?

Unread postby PK_ » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:46 pm

The podcast was really good. He never said that it was too random to hunt. He specifically said it’s just what the data showed in the area of the study and will differ in other regions with more topography and/or less cover it would be surely be more predictable.

Interesting about the scatter plot in early season vs rut but he said the same thing most said on here, once pressure increased, bedding tightened up and was likely focused on doe groups during rut. I really enjoyed it.
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