Opening a can of Worms....

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PAbowhunter10
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Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby PAbowhunter10 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:45 am

Recently I have seen a number of articles and heard a number of complaints from traditional and compound bowhunters (vertical bowhunters) that crossbows are getting out of hand with the technology and capabilities. Essentially comparing them to firearms because of there range and ease of use. Most if not all vertical bow hunters have to put in countless hours during the season and post season to become proficient enough with their equipment to kill deer within a limited range. I personally do not have an issue with crossbows IF (and that a big IF) they are being used by individuals who do not have the capability to draw a traditional or compound bow; children, elderly, handicap, etc. But recently there just seems to be a very big increase in archery hunters as well as harvest numbers do to the use of crossbows during the Fall 2-month long archery season. I'm all for more people getting out into the woods to enjoy Gods creation, but this is starting to get out of hand in my opinion. States need to address this by putting a shorter crossbow season in that can coexist with the standard fall archery season. Even the owner at my local pro shop states that they have sold twice as many crossbows than vertical bows in the past three years. He complains because he has spent the past three archery season fixing crossbows minimizing his time to get in the woods.
Well there you go, I opened it, lets here your thoughts. :naughty:


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Ghost Hunter
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Ghost Hunter » Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:00 am

Last season I was not able to pull bow on two different hunts which by luck were decent bucks. I hurt my right shoulder. Could not even come close to even drawl it back halfway. I was staring crossbow straight in face. I was willing to do it to still be able to hunt. But since December I have be working out about four or five days a week. My shoulder strength has increased. Pain has sub sided for most part. So yes, I would and probably will a few years down road.

I shot crossbow for a couple years before I picked up a compound bow in 1997. Haven't looked back since. But will be doing it some day in future. So, for me to each their own. Really don't care.
I'm reason they call it hunting and not shooting.
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oldrank
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby oldrank » Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:08 am

If a grown man has a lick of coordination he can shoot a compound accurately in a few hous. Might take a few days for muscles to develop some memory but that's about all.

Numbers are up a bit but I wouldn't say that's a bad thing.

As for hunting with one there are a few advantages. Accuracy and not having to draw. That's about where it ends.

Cross bows are easier to shoot. Accuracy is instant once the scope is dialed in.

Compound are easier to shoot than trad bows.

Carving a bow out of a stick is harder than buying a recurve...

Killing a deer with a rock is hard too... in the end it's all just deer hunting. We adapt n adjust to laws.

I have used both for alot of seasons. I recently bought a new compound and plan to hunt with it this year on public. I will use my crossbow if I'm blind hunting. In my mind I don't see much of a difference. My beef is with a buck not with what others are using or doing.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:12 am

I love bow hunting so my views are probably very different than most. I mean I love it so much I enjoy learning the history of if it. There was not always an archery season as some believe. Actually a hardcore group of bow hunters fought for it. The deciding factor was we want to handicap ourselves with bows and arrows. To do so and strictly hunt with a bow requires more time than some just picking up a rifle and sniping one off. Law makers agreed and so we had a bow season where one didn’t have to worry about using the easiest weapon possible due to a small window of opportunity. We had xtra time which leveled the playing field.

In the years to come what happened was big business found away to profit on a close range/primitive season. The folks who didn’t wanna spend the time to become efficient could now purchase a product flying under radar disguised as archery equipment. Billions of dollars were made. Now archery season has become a right everyone should be able to take part in. Rifle that shoots darts who cares? For the record I don’t hate the elderly or children. Have seen no evidence where these gadgets got more people in the woods or sold more license. Just the same people in the woods during bow season. The season that was set up for difficulty.

It’s not just kill numbers and crowded lands in what used to be a relaxing bow season. It’s draw hunts, bow only archery public. Right now Iowa is a every 4 or 5 year pull. If they allowed x-bows I guarantee you it would triple in the amount of years it would take to get pulled. So no I don’t get it and it ticks me off.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby szwampdonkey » Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:13 am

Not sure if it’s opening a can of worms just stating your opinion? I actually agree with you on this topic. Sitting there with a scoped crossbow ready to fire leaning on a steady shooting rail for twenty minutes while that buck works his way toward you so you can pull the trigger with zero additional deer spooking movement isn’t exactly the essence of archery hunting. I don’t think anyone can argue you need to put in the same amount of time or effort to become proficient with a crossbow either.

All that being said, they have their place and i’m all for using them if that’s your thing and you don’t have any interest in actually bowhunting. But, seeing as they lie somewhere in between bows and rifles in efficiency and ease of use i think thy should also be regulated somewhere in between those two weapons. Traditional rifle season is shorter for a reason as there would be no deer left if you had a 4 month long rifle season assuring a nearly 100% kill rate for licensed hunters.

Give crossbow users a month in November to get it done, rifle a week to 9 days, archery 3-4 months and call it good. If you can’t get it done with your weapon of choice in those time frames there is always next year.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Stingray713 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:31 am

I can only speak to where I live and hunt. In Virginia, crossbows became legal for anyone to use in 2015. Deer kill numbers generally stayed the same, although they fell 9% last season.

Haven’t noticed much of an increase in pressure. Just a lot of guys hitting it hard opening weekend and then hanging it up until muzzleloader season.

I think creating more opportunities for people to hunt is a good thing as long as it doesn’t negatively affect the resource.

Guys run deer with dogs where I hunt so no I’m not too worried about a guy with a crossbow hurting my chances.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Chuck B » Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:09 pm

Ghost Hunter wrote:Last season I was not able to pull bow on two different hunts which by luck were decent bucks. I hurt my right shoulder. Could not even come close to even drawl it back halfway. I was staring crossbow straight in face. I was willing to do it to still be able to hunt. But since December I have be working out about four or five days a week. My shoulder strength has increased. Pain has sub sided for most part. So yes, I would and probably will a few years down road.

I shot crossbow for a couple years before I picked up a compound bow in 1997. Haven't looked back since. But will be doing it some day in future. So, for me to each their own. Really don't care.



So you are cool if people just use a rifle then all fall long? You really don’t care right?
If you aren't green and growing, you are ripe and rotting
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Ghost Hunter » Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:17 pm

Chuck B wrote:
Ghost Hunter wrote:Last season I was not able to pull bow on two different hunts which by luck were decent bucks. I hurt my right shoulder. Could not even come close to even drawl it back halfway. I was staring crossbow straight in face. I was willing to do it to still be able to hunt. But since December I have be working out about four or five days a week. My shoulder strength has increased. Pain has sub sided for most part. So yes, I would and probably will a few years down road.

I shot crossbow for a couple years before I picked up a compound bow in 1997. Haven't looked back since. But will be doing it some day in future. So, for me to each their own. Really don't care.



So you are cool if people just use a rifle then all fall long? You really don’t care right?



I didn't mention rifle in my post. I thought topic of discussion was crossbows.
I'm reason they call it hunting and not shooting.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Chuck B » Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:35 pm

Ghost Hunter wrote:
Chuck B wrote:
Ghost Hunter wrote:Last season I was not able to pull bow on two different hunts which by luck were decent bucks. I hurt my right shoulder. Could not even come close to even drawl it back halfway. I was staring crossbow straight in face. I was willing to do it to still be able to hunt. But since December I have be working out about four or five days a week. My shoulder strength has increased. Pain has sub sided for most part. So yes, I would and probably will a few years down road.

I shot crossbow for a couple years before I picked up a compound bow in 1997. Haven't looked back since. But will be doing it some day in future. So, for me to each their own. Really don't care.



So you are cool if people just use a rifle then all fall long? You really don’t care right?



I didn't mention rifle in my post. I thought topic of discussion was crossbows.



You are implying that you “just worry about yourself” right?
If you aren't green and growing, you are ripe and rotting
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Ghost Hunter » Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:42 pm

Chuck B wrote:
Ghost Hunter wrote:
Chuck B wrote:
Ghost Hunter wrote:Last season I was not able to pull bow on two different hunts which by luck were decent bucks. I hurt my right shoulder. Could not even come close to even drawl it back halfway. I was staring crossbow straight in face. I was willing to do it to still be able to hunt. But since December I have be working out about four or five days a week. My shoulder strength has increased. Pain has sub sided for most part. So yes, I would and probably will a few years down road.

I shot crossbow for a couple years before I picked up a compound bow in 1997. Haven't looked back since. But will be doing it some day in future. So, for me to each their own. Really don't care.



So you are cool if people just use a rifle then all fall long? You really don’t care right?



I didn't mention rifle in my post. I thought topic of discussion was crossbows.



You are implying that you “just worry about yourself” right?


Not at all. I'm implying that if someone wants to hunt with crossbow that is fine with me. Actually, being thoughtful of someone that wishes to do so.
I'm reason they call it hunting and not shooting.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby A5BLASTER » Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:49 pm

PAbowhunter10 wrote:Recently I have seen a number of articles and heard a number of complaints from traditional and compound bowhunters (vertical bowhunters) that crossbows are getting out of hand with the technology and capabilities. Essentially comparing them to firearms because of there range and ease of use. Most if not all vertical bow hunters have to put in countless hours during the season and post season to become proficient enough with their equipment to kill deer within a limited range. I personally do not have an issue with crossbows IF (and that a big IF) they are being used by individuals who do not have the capability to draw a traditional or compound bow; children, elderly, handicap, etc. But recently there just seems to be a very big increase in archery hunters as well as harvest numbers do to the use of crossbows during the Fall 2-month long archery season. I'm all for more people getting out into the woods to enjoy Gods creation, but this is starting to get out of hand in my opinion. States need to address this by putting a shorter crossbow season in that can coexist with the standard fall archery season. Even the owner at my local pro shop states that they have sold twice as many crossbows than vertical bows in the past three years. He complains because he has spent the past three archery season fixing crossbows minimizing his time to get in the woods.
Well there you go, I opened it, lets here your thoughts. :naughty:


Your opening post smells heavily of liberal Karen sause.

Stop making excuses for your/their shortcomings and focus more on being a better hunter/woodsman.

I would say your freind that is running the archery shop is a liar. He would speed just as much time fixing vertical bows. People who get into running bow shops know going into it they just gave up all or nearly all of their hunting season in exchange for peoples money to fix them up and keep them hunting.

Hate to break this too you but a crossbow is still archery, it still uses a stick and string with a broadhead on the end of it and it still kills by opening up holes in the vitals for blood loss.

Are they faster to learn how too be accurate/
deadly with then a vertical bow? Sure. Do they take the effort too keep your skills honed like a vertical bow? Yes it does. It's just like anything else. If you dont stay on your practice routine, your skill level starts too drop.

Anybody who says it's easier too hit with a crossbow compared too a vertical bow. I invite them too come shot my 7 pound rigged out excalibur freehand and hit the heart shaped bullseye at 40 yards, then shot it with a vertical bow right after. I promise you a crossbow in of its self is not any more or less accurate then a vertical bow.

It's the indian not the bow.

Fact of the matter is they still operate inside the same yardages a vertical compound does 0-100 yards, a persons personal etichical hunting range doesnt need to change simple because he changed archery weapon types.

Let's be frankly honest here. Vertical bow hunters who complain and whine and cry about crossbows. Aren't doing so because they have to practice more or because they are more deserving. They are doing so because they are jealous that crossbows have surpassed them in speed and there is no possible way to make a vertical bow as fast as a crossbow without it being a ticking time bomb.

Personally I have both vertical bows and now excalibur crossbow to use and I prefer the crossbow. Why you ask? Because I'm an American living in America and I dont have too be like you/them, long as I'm operating inside the laws. I could care less what you/them use or think of what I use.

If we as hunters would less about everybody else's tools/ethics and focused more on miding our own buisness and enjoying our hunting for ourselves the hunting community and hunting rights in this country would be in much better shape.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Moose » Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:52 pm

Just because someone chooses to use a crossbow doesn't automatically make them a deer killer. If deer numbers start falling dramatically just because people are using crossbows then we will have a big problem. Im for All hunting that is done legally no matter what method they use even if it's not my preferred method.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Chuck B » Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:55 pm

Ghost Hunter wrote:
Chuck B wrote:
Ghost Hunter wrote:
Chuck B wrote:
Ghost Hunter wrote:Last season I was not able to pull bow on two different hunts which by luck were decent bucks. I hurt my right shoulder. Could not even come close to even drawl it back halfway. I was staring crossbow straight in face. I was willing to do it to still be able to hunt. But since December I have be working out about four or five days a week. My shoulder strength has increased. Pain has sub sided for most part. So yes, I would and probably will a few years down road.

I shot crossbow for a couple years before I picked up a compound bow in 1997. Haven't looked back since. But will be doing it some day in future. So, for me to each their own. Really don't care.



So you are cool if people just use a rifle then all fall long? You really don’t care right?



I didn't mention rifle in my post. I thought topic of discussion was crossbows.



You are implying that you “just worry about yourself” right?


Not at all. I'm implying that if someone wants to hunt with crossbow that is fine with me. Actually, being thoughtful of someone that wishes to do so.



Ok, so my sarcastic comments were not really directed at you. I just am sick of the “worry about yourself” arguments that I hear on this site all of the time.

Yes, I agree, if all we had to do was worry about ourselves that would be nice. Unfortunately, life doesn’t work that way. There are rules/laws in place for a reason.

I think crossbow season should be significantly shortened. The harvest numbers are way out of wack. Shooting a deer with a crossbow is SIGNIFICANTLY easier than shooting a deer with a compound (yes even a fancy new compound). As Boogie mentioned, the archery season (the length) was not designed for crossbows. It was designed to be this long because of the difficulty of shooting a bow.

I am fine with people over a certain age (not sure on age), disabled, kids using a crossbow during archery. And would be fine with a 2 week crossbow season. But I think being able to use a crossbow the whole archery season really goes against the true “meaning” of archery season.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Stingray713 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:01 pm

Chuck B wrote:
Ghost Hunter wrote:Last season I was not able to pull bow on two different hunts which by luck were decent bucks. I hurt my right shoulder. Could not even come close to even drawl it back halfway. I was staring crossbow straight in face. I was willing to do it to still be able to hunt. But since December I have be working out about four or five days a week. My shoulder strength has increased. Pain has sub sided for most part. So yes, I would and probably will a few years down road.

I shot crossbow for a couple years before I picked up a compound bow in 1997. Haven't looked back since. But will be doing it some day in future. So, for me to each their own. Really don't care.





So you are cool if people just use a rifle then all fall long? You really don’t care right?[/quote


I’m indifferent as to whether crossbows should be allowed, but I haven’t seen any evidence they are wiping out deer herds like people are using rifles all fall. If someone shows me some actual data saying otherwise then I’m sure I’d change my tune.

Deer harvest or archery harvest numbers going up alone doesn’t do it. Neither does an archery shop owner complaining about his increase in sales.
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Re: Opening a can of Worms....

Unread postby Swedishbowhunter » Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:11 pm

I just wish Wisconsin would have left the xbow's for the people with a permit and/or over 65 or 55. I would have even been open to the idea of allowing there use during muzzleloader season. I feel they were rammed down our throats, with no re-guard for what WBH had worked so hard to get. Now that they are here, my biggest gripe about them is people that use them who suddenly believe they are "bowhunters", that they are one and the same. I just wish they would embrace what they are, crossbow hunters, when they are fortunate enough to harvest an animal, I wish they would be proud of it and admit they used a xbow. It seems a lot like to post their trophy pics on social media and say he look at my "bow" buck, instead of just saying xbow. They know it is different, but they dont ever want to admit it. Now that there here, gun hunters are getting discouraged with the number of bucks left available to them when gun season opens. You are starting to hear rumblings of making WI a 1 buck state, shortening the season, & other lame ideas.


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