I fell...

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Kokes
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Kokes » Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:12 am

glad your OK Muddy... last year I had some debris in the buckle which caused the strap to let lose, luckily I noticed it before I stepped on the platform. To me, its hard to imagine how it happened after you were set up and already in the stand, but it goes to show you how important wearing a harness really is... thanks for posting, and again happy you are ok...


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muddy
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby muddy » Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:44 am

Kokes wrote:glad your OK Muddy... last year I had some debris in the buckle which caused the strap to let lose, luckily I noticed it before I stepped on the platform. To me, its hard to imagine how it happened after you were set up and already in the stand, but it goes to show you how important wearing a harness really is... thanks for posting, and again happy you are ok...


Not only set up and using it, but sitting there for nearly 2 hours before it slipped
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:08 pm

Glad You had your harness :!: :!:
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby raisins » Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:15 am

I'm glad you are okay.

Please everyone, always wear a harness and stay attached somehow from the time you leave the ground. Too many people only attach once they've stepped onto the stand, when the climbing and stepping onto the stand might be the most dangerous parts.

Any treestand with a versabutton can be hung instead using amsteel daisy chains, which are much stronger and do not have a cam buckle as a point of failure (with the cam buckle probably being weaker than the webbing also).

I use amsteel daisy chains on my sticks and saddle platforms and attach them using a trucker's hitch technique. For platforms, I use 1/8" amsteel which has a very high break strength.

The end of daisy chain (end loop) is put over the button, the daisy chain tag end is wrapped around the tree, it is then brought under the button and daisy chain already on versabutton. It is pulled back onto itself after making this turn, you then find an amsteel loop and put the tag end through it, pull tight and bring this tag end back to button, wrap it several times behind the amsteel on the button, cam the stand open and it will wedge everything as tight as a guitar string. Then wrap the daisy chain around the button until you run out and then finish with a half hitch somewhere.

It is also lighter and has no metal buckle to make noise.

Here's how one person does it for sticks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ31lTQ5oWc

he doesn't wrap behind like i do though since sticks don't cam.

Here's an amsteel daisy chain, but they are easy to make.

https://customamsteelproducts.com/colle ... y-the-foot
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:25 am

Dang glad you are ok. Thanks for the reminder.
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Hatchetman » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:32 am

Dewey wrote:I had a damp strap freeze and then would slip. Any chance this is what happened?

Also when you say using two straps next time do you mean two on the same versa button? Because using an upper and lower on each versa button would be the same result if the top one failed. The bottom one would likely do nothing to keep you on the stand.


I agree somewhat with that statement, but really think this through...
Yes it is true that if your top strap totally failed, the bottom strap, in it's stock position, would likely not have saved you.
But then would it have failed in the first place had the bottom strap been on?
Realize for one strap users.. there is a S*#T ton of pressure on that ONE cam buckle...
If that ONE buckle fails, your going for a ride...
I have always used two straps, and have taught both my adult sons to do so always as well.

The important part to using two straps is doing it correctly.
You can make things actually more dangerous for yourself by installing the second strap wrong!
Here's how I do it...
1) Put top strap on first.
2) Lift front of stand way up and push down on the seat and the front of the stand to get moderate tension on the strap.

( this is where most one step users method is different. Most will get on the stand to push it down as far as they can or even kneel on the seat and with their toe lift up the front of the stand so the stand slips down a little bit which puts more tension on the strap. They then cam the stand back down which puts even more tension on the strap & buckle. They do this to try and keep the stand from wobbling on the tree when they're are on it.)

3) Put bottom strap on and cinch tight.
4) HERE'S THE CRITICAL PART... Lift front of stand up only 2-3" and re tighten bottom strap. (you'll only get a1/4 - 1/2") Push stand back down and you'll see the tension on the strap that slight camming just did.
5) Look back up at the top batwing and make sure it is still contacting the tree decently. Grab the seat and give it pull side to side to make sure its still tight on top. If the seat and bat wing shifts around too much, you cammed the bottom strap too much. Go back down to the bottom and lift the front of the stand slightly and release a tiny bit of tension on your bottom strap. go back up and recheck your top.

This may sound like a lot of horsey dick'n around but once you do it a few times you'll get a feel just how much to cam that bottom strap which is the key.

This 2 strap method does these two major things for you.
A) Attaches the stand tighter to the tree than you'll ever be able to achieve with one strap.
B) Disperses the extension force generated to two cam buckles instead of one from your weight and the cam actioning of hanging the stand.

Now, I'm no physasist ,and I don't know what these cam buckles are rated for, but just remember if your only 180lbs fully loaded and you are doing extreme camming with your stand hanging you are putting WAY more than 180 lbs on that little Chinese made cam buckle...

Next year I am going to dabble around with seeing if I can move my lower versa button up an inch or two. I honestly think that would make the stands even safer..
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Tsom
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Tsom » Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:15 am

Hatchetman wrote:
Dewey wrote:I had a damp strap freeze and then would slip. Any chance this is what happened?

Also when you say using two straps next time do you mean two on the same versa button? Because using an upper and lower on each versa button would be the same result if the top one failed. The bottom one would likely do nothing to keep you on the stand.


I agree somewhat with that statement, but really think this through...
Yes it is true that if your top strap totally failed, the bottom strap, in it's stock position, would likely not have saved you.
But then would it have failed in the first place had the bottom strap been on?
Realize for one strap users.. there is a S*#T ton of pressure on that ONE cam buckle...
If that ONE buckle fails, your going for a ride...
I have always used two straps, and have taught both my adult sons to do so always as well.

The important part to using two straps is doing it correctly.
You can make things actually more dangerous for yourself by installing the second strap wrong!
Here's how I do it...
1) Put top strap on first.
2) Lift front of stand way up and push down on the seat and the front of the stand to get moderate tension on the strap.

( this is where most one step users method is different. Most will get on the stand to push it down as far as they can or even kneel on the seat and with their toe lift up the front of the stand so the stand slips down a little bit which puts more tension on the strap. They then cam the stand back down which puts even more tension on the strap & buckle. They do this to try and keep the stand from wobbling on the tree when they're are on it.)

3) Put bottom strap on and cinch tight.
4) HERE'S THE CRITICAL PART... Lift front of stand up only 2-3" and re tighten bottom strap. (you'll only get a1/4 - 1/2") Push stand back down and you'll see the tension on the strap that slight camming just did.
5) Look back up at the top batwing and make sure it is still contacting the tree decently. Grab the seat and give it pull side to side to make sure its still tight on top. If the seat and bat wing shifts around too much, you cammed the bottom strap too much. Go back down to the bottom and lift the front of the stand slightly and release a tiny bit of tension on your bottom strap. go back up and recheck your top.

This may sound like a lot of horsey dick'n around but once you do it a few times you'll get a feel just how much to cam that bottom strap which is the key.

This 2 strap method does these two major things for you.
A) Attaches the stand tighter to the tree than you'll ever be able to achieve with one strap.
B) Disperses the extension force generated to two cam buckles instead of one from your weight and the cam actioning of hanging the stand.

Now, I'm no physasist ,and I don't know what these cam buckles are rated for, but just remember if your only 180lbs fully loaded and you are doing extreme camming with your stand hanging you are putting WAY more than 180 lbs on that little Chinese made cam buckle...

Next year I am going to dabble around with seeing if I can move my lower versa button up an inch or two. I honestly think that would make the stands even safer..

That's exactly how I hang my xop vanish. Rock solid and not camming it over with body weight. I've never liked the idea of putting that much stress one one strap myself.
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Jimmy wallhanger
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Jimmy wallhanger » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:22 am

I have a buddy who does rescue for a living. He told me to have the least amount of slack in your tether as possible, this helps a fall become a slip of a few inches.

My harness has some tension when im seated, it allows me to lean with no worries, and i feel I could doze off with no issue
"I don't care if you use it or not, I could care less, There's no money in it for me, Im not making any money from scent-lok... I'm making a little bit of royalties from the saddlehunter suit"
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Dewey » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:27 am

Jimmy wallhanger wrote:I have a buddy who does rescue for a living. He told me to have the least amount of slack in your tether as possible, this helps a fall become a slip of a few inches.

My harness has some tension when im seated, it allows me to lean with no worries, and i feel I could doze off with no issue

Also is a nice secure feeling when you need to lean out from the stand a bit to take a shot. That’s helped me kill a few deer I otherwise wouldn’t have had a shot due to fear of falling.
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Jackson Marsh
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Jackson Marsh » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:34 pm

Jimmy wallhanger wrote:I have a buddy who does rescue for a living. He told me to have the least amount of slack in your tether as possible, this helps a fall become a slip of a few inches.

My harness has some tension when im seated, it allows me to lean with no worries, and i feel I could doze off with no issue



This is good advice. I usually like to feel slight tension when I sit down, but I do get sloppy with it and need to do a better job of being consistent on tether height.
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Bucky » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:44 pm

:shock:

Glad you had harness on! I watched my son fall from climbing sticks…. Scared the holy out of me. Now we try to hunt from the ground instead. Adds a new challenge too
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Jimmy wallhanger
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Jimmy wallhanger » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:31 am

Jackson Marsh wrote:
Jimmy wallhanger wrote:I have a buddy who does rescue for a living. He told me to have the least amount of slack in your tether as possible, this helps a fall become a slip of a few inches.

My harness has some tension when im seated, it allows me to lean with no worries, and i feel I could doze off with no issue



This is good advice. I usually like to feel slight tension when I sit down, but I do get sloppy with it and need to do a better job of being consistent on tether height.


I like to feel a bit of tension when Im sitting, it also makes off side shots alot cleaner as the tether is not getting tangled in your draw arm/elbow.
"I don't care if you use it or not, I could care less, There's no money in it for me, Im not making any money from scent-lok... I'm making a little bit of royalties from the saddlehunter suit"
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby WiscoDisco » Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:50 am

KRONIIK wrote:
muddy wrote:
KRONIIK wrote:Muddy, I'm curious about your harness setup.
Conventional harness with rear attachment point between shoulder blades?
Or is it Rock-climbing harness with front attachment?


Conventional, rear attachment between blades and straps around thighs/crotch. Chest strap and waist strap.


I asked because I know some guys who have experienced short drops similar to yours, who have also suffered soreness and bruising from the shock when they hit the end of the slack.
Supposedly falls are less painful in rock climbing rigs, because the thigh muscles/buttocks take the forces instead of whiplashing your spinal column as a rear-attachment harness does.

Many recommend a dynamic (stretchy) tether to soften that shock, regardless of harness type used.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
(I prefer a RC harness, but I don't currently have it set up with a dynamic tether; think I will look into it.)




I fell in a similar situation in 2018. Permanent hang on. The cables rusted and broke where they attach to the stand posts. The platform fell out from under me like a trap door. I had my tree strap high enough above my head that when I sat down I could feel it start to snug up. This way when I fell I went the least amount of distance. I was wearing a muddy safeguard with a bungees type tether. Other thinking I broke a finger for 2/weeks I was fine. I moved 100 yards to a climber stand and shot a buck an hour later. :)
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Re: I fell...

Unread postby Sparkey » Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:39 am

muddy wrote:Public service announcement.

People... check and double check your equipment. If you use 1 strap on your stand then please read this and start using 2.

Yesterday I went in and set up normally, except i only had 1 strap for my stand. 99% of the time I use 2 for safety but yesterday I was 1 short and didnt put much thought into it. A few hours in I was enjoying my morning of seeing 8 bucks when I suddenly felt my stand move slightly. At this point things went into super speed slow motion and the next thing j knew I was dangling from my harness and scrambling to get things straight. A brand new cam strap (used on XOP, LW, LWCG, and Beast stands) had let 12-16" of strap slide thru, tossing me out of the stand. My head hit a branch and the .momentum cartwheeled me and I ended up dangling for many minutes before I was able to pull myself around and get situated.

I climbed down and sat at the bottom of the tree for awhile to calm down before I climbed back up to look at the strap. It appeared totally fine and functioned normally. I dont know what happened but will never use 1 strap again when I can use 2.

Today my head feels like I was hit by a boxer and my neck is stiff and sore from hitting that branch. Side of my face has a nice abrasion and my shoulder and legs both hurt from the dead fall drop stop of the harness.

Don't be an friggin moron, wear a harness. Check and double check your equipment. If you can, use a lineman belt. When it happens, it happens FAST, you will not be able to catch yourself.

I am a careful hunter, yet this is the 2nd time I've been saved by a harness. It's not IF, but WHEN.

glad u came out clean thanks for the psa


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