Working with the wind in the mountains

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
  • Advertisement

HB Store


User avatar
Ognennyy
500 Club
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:47 pm
Status: Offline

Working with the wind in the mountains

Unread postby Ognennyy » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:29 am

The purple line above the "thick furs" waypoint represents 200 meters.
Red line represents my planned ingress.
Red stars are where I was guessed that bucks would be bedded. It was 30 degrees over night, coldest it's been so far this year, and it was a beautiful blue sky high pressure day. So figured they'd settle down on the southern slopes to warm up.

Earlier this year I scouted an area that looked like it would be heavily used during the pre-rut time frame; when leaves start coming down and a lot of the soft woody browse are starting to die off for the season. This location can be seen marked with the few waypoints "rub", "scrape", "reds", (red oaks), "thick furs". There was a west wind forecast so I chose to take the logging road around and approach from the east. But when I got to the point on my route where I was headed south on the eastern face of the mountain - 100 - 200 meters before my route shows a hard turn west - at around 9:30am with the sun really starting to poke up over the peaks, the wind gusts started blowing up the ridge (it was coming out of the east).

I'm not really sure what to make of this. When the wind wasn't gusting my milk weed would indeed slowly and gently drift up the ridge for about 10-15 meters before it fell to the ground. This kind of slow, gentle current is what I've come to identify through my experience as how thermals behave in the area where I hunt. But the strange thing is that there would be wind gusts that felt more like normal (atmospheric) wind, that would blow up the ridge as well.

What I'm looking for opinions on is:
1) Can thermals gust? I mean that's not possible right, on a zero-cloud day? It's not like god hit the sun's dimmer switch for a few seconds, then cranked it back up, causing a violent thermal updraft.
2) Does this up-hill wind I'm describing even matter? The whole time the wind was blowing up the ridge it was never stronger than 8-10mph even when gusting, and I could watch my milkweed fall on the ground most of the time. Sometimes it did drift off to where I lost track of it. But the theoretical bedding that I was targeting hunting were over 400m away to the west. Does scent travel that far?
3) If the answer to the last question is "Yes your scent was traveling that far and you got winded, newb" how in the world do you pull off the hunt I was planning? Can't approach from the west because of the west atmospheric wind we were getting that day. I thought about trying to swing wwwaayyy south toward the pond you can see in the bottom of the map. But decided against it because I would've had the same problem but with the two bedding locations I've indicated on the lower peak. Do you just stay on the logging road to the north until 3-4pm then run and risk busting them because of how loud you're being? Do I just stick to the original planned route, accept that the deer on the northern ridge are going to bust me, and hope there are some oblivious ones on the southern peak?

In the end I never even wound up hunting. My GPS died a few weeks ago after 7 years so I was old school map naving. I lost my way and around 3pm decided to just worry about getting back to my car. Turns out I had drifted way south, and while on my "safety valve" route (hold straight west to the stream, follow north) walked through the bedding on the lower peak and that was that. Looks like wind didn't matter afterall cuz I just went and dropped my scent directly on their bedding.

Image


User avatar
Ognennyy
500 Club
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:47 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Working with the wind in the mountains

Unread postby Ognennyy » Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:43 am

I guess I can just summarize the heart of my questions.

1) Can thermals "gust"? My experience with them has always been a gentle, consistent up-draft. But is it possible for a thermal to blow violently up the mountain in a way like normal atmospheric winds do?
2) How far up a mountain can thermals carry my scent? If I'm on a slope that's 1/4 - 1/2 mile long can thermals bring scent all the way to the top, even if I'm dropping milk weed and watching it fall to the ground 5 meters away?

Maybe the real question is; how truly does milk weed show the path of my scent? If I drop a milk weed and it floats 5 meters before hitting the ground, can I safely assume that is exactly as far as my scent is going and no further?
User avatar
backstraps
Moderator
Posts: 10110
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:44 pm
Location: Tennessee
Status: Offline

Re: Working with the wind in the mountains

Unread postby backstraps » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:14 am

I will take a stab at your questions

1. Can thermals gust… in the tall steep ridges on the Appalachians around me I have seen it happen so often that it’s practically common. I have had thermals so powerful the thermals easily overpower the predicted wind speed for the sit

2. Can the thermals pull your scent to the too. Absolutely can… if you are on the windward side of a hill or even if your on a leeward and the actual wind speeds are light and variable

The thing thats so tricky with thermals and the distance it can carry your scent is that it can and will change many times throughout a single sit.
It isn’t as simple as thermals rising and meeting wind and creating a tunnel in the steep ridges we hunt.

So many things can factor in to the thermal rise. The hilltop heights that are adjacent to you can change things. The foliage around you effects it (especially mountain laurel) etc etc etc


As for the accuracy of the milkweed… at the time you drop the milkweed it is accurate right then

Hunting falling thermals are usually a little more predictable in the mountains

Most of the long side ridge we hunt doesnt have a military crest… and thats why you will see bedding not be as consistent along a certain elevation line too

Hope that helps some and not create more confusion

Im sure others will chine in with better info for you
Maybe shoot brancher a pm he frequently hunta steep stuff in WV
User avatar
backstraps
Moderator
Posts: 10110
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:44 pm
Location: Tennessee
Status: Offline

Re: Working with the wind in the mountains

Unread postby backstraps » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:20 am

Also let me add, your map isnt really steep of mountainous like I am referring to but may help
User avatar
brancher147
500 Club
Posts: 1414
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:46 am
Location: West Virginia
Status: Offline

Re: Working with the wind in the mountains

Unread postby brancher147 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:36 am

I have never seen thermals gust and can’t think of a time they changed multiple times in a sit but I guess it’s possible. They can increase and overpower wind and can be enough to blow leaves on trees but they don’t change speed quickly and gust like wind. Wind can obviously switch and gust when mixed with thermals and this may be what you are experiencing.
Yes thermals can carry your scent all the way up a ridge even if your milkweed hits the ground quickly. Milkweed tells you direction but not distance.
Some do. Some don't. I just might...
User avatar
Tsom
500 Club
Posts: 832
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:25 am
Location: W. Central MN
Status: Offline

Re: Working with the wind in the mountains

Unread postby Tsom » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:59 am

I don't have enough experience with it to be sure but have experienced what you are talking about with your typical thermals rising becoming a stiff wind and even gusts ripping up the mountain 100 percent opposite of the prevailing wind. I was maybe half way up on small Mountain ridge with about 400-450 ft of elevation change.
User avatar
Ognennyy
500 Club
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:47 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Working with the wind in the mountains

Unread postby Ognennyy » Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:25 am

brancher147 wrote:Yes thermals can carry your scent all the way up a ridge even if your milkweed hits the ground quickly. Milkweed tells you direction but not distance.


I'm hearing that there's really no way for me to know exactly where my scent is winding up... That certainly adds a new twist on my obsession with Adirondack mountain hunting. Looking at the picture I've posted below, basically a mountain hunter must just assume that if you're standing at the southern tip of the triangle I drew, everything within the triangle is going to wind you? (EDIT: I mean under the same circumstances as the original post... 0930 on a blue sky high pressure strong thermal day)

You reply to a lot of my questions about Adirondack mountain hunting. I remember you used to live and hunt here, and now are in an area of WV and hunt in similar terrain. How would you, or how do you, personally go about setting up to hunt the large bench / flat from my original picture above ("scrape", "rub", "thick furs") for an evening hunt with the expectation of getting bucks that are potentially bedded on the northern ridge?

Or maybe the right question is, is that hunt possible given the terrain and circumstances (blue sky day with a big thermal effect)?
Hhhmmmm maybe the best question is: am I losing my mind, or just learning to think like a hunter? Cuz it sure feels a lot like I'm going crazy and it really hurts my head to think about all this.

Whatever.

Image
Last edited by Ognennyy on Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Ognennyy
500 Club
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:47 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Working with the wind in the mountains

Unread postby Ognennyy » Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:36 am

backstraps wrote:Also let me add, your map isnt really steep of mountainous like I am referring to but may help

Right on, the terrain here really isn't all that aggressive. Aside from the south-western tip of the northern ridge, I can walk right up and over most of these without much issue.


backstraps wrote:Hope that helps some and not create more confusion

It sounds weird but I'm starting to feel like the most helpful things people tell me are the ones that confuse me more. But seriously thanks for the response.
User avatar
brancher147
500 Club
Posts: 1414
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:46 am
Location: West Virginia
Status: Offline

Re: Working with the wind in the mountains

Unread postby brancher147 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:17 am

In the triangle I doubt just anything in there could smell you on an average thermal rise but at least a couple hundred yards above could smell you but it does also depend on what the wind is doing.

As far as the setup on that big bench. It is definitely possible with rising thermals. You just need a wind blowing away from bedding. A North or East or West wind could work but there are some winds that I am sure swirl there also and that just takes trial and error to figure out in different spots.

And you’re not going crazy you’re asking the right questions they are just very situational and very hard to give a concrete answer. I was asking the same questions when I started this forum and it just takes years to get some kind of handle on it-did for me anyway. The more I used milkweed and more I thought about it the more it came together. But ADK’s mountains are different and probably have different challenging wind scenarios than I am used to as the mountains go every which direction and have large flat areas and swamps added in between as well as different terrain cover like spruce and fir thickets.
Some do. Some don't. I just might...


  • Advertisement

Return to “Deer Hunting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 90 guests