The Element - Map Scout Challenge

[RidgeGhost]

I dont post much anymore, but for this one, I have to. This youtube channel, The Element, has been doing map scout challenges to teach folks how to scout and hunt. That's great.

The issue is, they are now showing detailed maps, calling out the names of the public lands they scout, and posting cell cam pics of bucks from these spots. Last year they posted a kill video from one of the locations.

Why are they doing this? In my opinion, because they have found a way to make a living with youtube and onXmaps supporting them. They are now free to travel around and hunt wherever they please and they air it all out. Sounds great. Unless you are the guy that is limited in hunt time or travel and these guys land on the local public ground you hunt. They air out your access points, a few of your spots, and publicize trail cam pics of big deer. All that hard work you've put in scouting is now overwhelmed by the guys watching these vids that will swarm your setups.

I'm fortunate to be able to travel and hunt a lot of places. If a spot I hunt ever got show time from these guys, I'd just move on. But not everyone can do that.

I may ruffle some feathers here, but I dont think this is sustainable. I think folks making money by airing out public land spots is wrong. Anyone could post up their spots and let everyone have the free ride, but we dont. We dont because we work too hard for it and most of us have limited time.

To The Element guys - I enjoy some of your content. The videography is good quality and your hunts are exciting. But stop with the public land details. It's no less effective to demonstrate scouting techniques on a piece of private ground or a lease that gets high pressure. Some guys on public land are really grinding and working hard for what knowledge they have. It's not right to give handouts to those that haven't earned it.

[thwack16]

[rhagenw]

Well said and I agree!

[Primetime41]

100% agree. I' was already on the fence about profiting from the use of public lands, and this is definitely a step too far IMO.

[greenhorndave]

There are going to be people who use it as a cheat, which is unfortunate.

But it does show examples of the “why” behind spots and that is something that people can apply to their own areas. I get what you’re all saying, but the educational value is the flip side of that coin and no other mapping videos are near as good that way when viewed in that light. It’s not even close.

[RidgeGhost]

There are going to be people who use it as a cheat, which is unfortunate.

But it does show examples of the “why” behind spots and that is something that people can apply to their own areas. I get what you’re all saying, but the educational value is the flip side of that coin and no other mapping videos are near as good that way when viewed in that light. It’s not even close.

Teaching the "why" behind a location is certainly a valuable tool. That being said, there is no need to provide a WMA name, the full map, trail cam pics, etc. in order for someone to learn.

Do you believe that, if The Element boys only had 5 days to hunt and one small local WMA to hunt on, they would publicize their information the same way they do now? I'm betting not. They would ruin their own chances, and no one wants to do that. But, if its 6 states away and you have no ties to it, does that make it ok? Nope.

Who are they doing this for? The hardcore public land guys are right here. I dont think they want handouts.

People are forgetting that anything worth having takes hard work.

[Lockdown]

There are going to be people who use it as a cheat, which is unfortunate.

But it does show examples of the “why” behind spots and that is something that people can apply to their own areas. I get what you’re all saying, but the educational value is the flip side of that coin and no other mapping videos are near as good that way when viewed in that light. It’s not even close.

Teaching the "why" behind a location is certainly a valuable tool. That being said, there is no need to provide a WMA name, the full map, trail cam pics, etc. in order for someone to learn.

Do you believe that, if The Element boys only had 5 days to hunt and one small local WMA to hunt on, they would publicize their information the same way they do now? I'm betting not. They would ruin their own chances, and no one wants to do that. But, if its 6 states away and you have no ties to it, does that make it ok? Nope.

Who are they doing this for? The hardcore public land guys are right here. I dont think they want handouts.

People are forgetting that anything worth having takes hard work.

I agree they don’t need to post the WMA name or even the state. Nobody will learn more because they know the WMA name.

[greenhorndave]

There are going to be people who use it as a cheat, which is unfortunate.

But it does show examples of the “why” behind spots and that is something that people can apply to their own areas. I get what you’re all saying, but the educational value is the flip side of that coin and no other mapping videos are near as good that way when viewed in that light. It’s not even close.

Teaching the "why" behind a location is certainly a valuable tool. That being said, there is no need to provide a WMA name, the full map, trail cam pics, etc. in order for someone to learn.

Do you believe that, if The Element boys only had 5 days to hunt and one small local WMA to hunt on, they would publicize their information the same way they do now? I'm betting not. They would ruin their own chances, and no one wants to do that. But, if its 6 states away and you have no ties to it, does that make it ok? Nope.

Who are they doing this for? The hardcore public land guys are right here. I dont think they want handouts.

People are forgetting that anything worth having takes hard work.

I agree they don’t need to post the WMA name or even the state. Nobody will learn more because they know the WMA name.

Definitely agree with that. They could fix that by just doing a zoom in on the features they’re looking at, then relating them to what they see with boots on the ground. There might be some reason they have for getting so specific on WMA name, but I agree they could do the teaching without it.

[mipubbucks24]

Not going to lie, the one buck they posted of the public in Michigan made me think about checking out that area. But it’s just not my style, I want to find it on my own. I just don’t know if they are showing real spots or just representing it as real spots. They only seem to say the name on areas they don’t really plan on hunting. Also can’t believe they have not had cameras stolen, or vandalized at the least. Anyone trying to follow stuff like this and kill deer may have some short term success but they are not learning woodsman-ship and in the end it will stunt their growth. They guys that consistently get it done don’t need coordinates from anyone.

[rfickes87]

I say just let it be. I get what you're saying but for those folks that actually do try and cheat, they won't be successful. They will be met in the same areas by other cheaters and it will ruin that area by over pressuring it.

There is so much content on the web now and YouTube on how to hunt big bucks on public land. Everyone and their brother has done a podcast now or runs their own podcasts. Everyone has their own Youtube "how to" shows on the subject, teaching you where on maps to sit. But IMO they all learned it from Dan. And now I feel that knowledge is all getting watered down by these other sources like the one you're mentioning. If you go back to him, and truly listen to everything he says, nothing about this comes easy. You still MUST put in the work ON YOUR OWN, there is no other option to be successful.

[Primetime41]

I say just let it be. I get what you're saying but for those folks that actually do try and cheat, they won't be successful. They will be met in the same areas by other cheaters and it will ruin that area by over pressuring it.

There is so much content on the web now and YouTube on how to hunt big bucks on public land. Everyone and their brother has done a podcast now or runs their own podcasts. Everyone has their own Youtube "how to" shows on the subject, teaching you where on maps to sit. But IMO they all learned it from Dan. And now I feel that knowledge is all getting watered down by these other sources like the one you're mentioning. If you go back to him, and truly listen to everything he says, nothing about this comes easy. You still MUST put in the work ON YOUR OWN, there is no other option to be successful.

I agree with a lot of this. All of these Youtube show/podcast guys think they're doing something groundbreaking, but in reality they're just doing/regurgitating things that have been talked about on the Beast for years. And the viewers who watch these shows and then go hunt those spots likely won't have any long term success in those areas (or others). But imagine you've been watching a nice buck on one of these properties and now a month before the season opens these guys share pics and information on an area that they probably don't even intend to hunt. No doubt that's gonna rub a lot of public land hunters the wrong way.

[Boogieman1]

I don’t like it but it really doesn’t bother me. When someone travels to a strange Wma for a couple days and shows all their findings. They basically are only showing a tiny piece of the puzzle that might not have even worked for them. Doesn’t really effect a local who knows that ground like the back of his hand. I don’t think the clowns who are looking for easy spots would ever be successful anyway. It’s of my opinion that u could tell one of those type hunters to sit right here from daylight til dark and u will get a crack. Suspect over 90% of them couldn’t pull it off.

[Stingray713]

Those Element guys are soft man, can’t even listen to or watch them. Soft.

[PK_]

Depends on the type of public. There are some places so vast, so pressured and so difficult to hunt that it truly makes no difference. Other places it could be devastating to the local hunters.

Hopefully they know the difference. Nothing is sacred these days.

[Hawthorne]

Not going to lie, the one buck they posted of the public in Michigan made me think about checking out that area. But it’s just not my style, I want to find it on my own. I just don’t know if they are showing real spots or just representing it as real spots. They only seem to say the name on areas they don’t really plan on hunting. Also can’t believe they have not had cameras stolen, or vandalized at the least. Anyone trying to follow stuff like this and kill deer may have some short term success but they are not learning woodsman-ship and in the end it will stunt their growth. They guys that consistently get it done don’t need coordinates from anyone.

Thats hilarious they chose that area. The most popular public land in the most popular county. Within an hour drive from 5 million people in metro Detroit