Definition a good spot ? (Kill Tree). Hot sign.

[Rob loper]

Im referring to scouting and setting up on hot sign
Whats everyones take on a good public spot? (Kill tree)?
I know most hunt different areas terrains, or even tactics.
I myself would label a great spot as this.
Close to bedding probably within 100 yards or closer.
A spot either over looked or way off the beaten path.
Good mature buck sign- tracks, big droppings, large rubs old and new, Don’t necessarily have to have scrapes but it doesn't hurt the more sign i guess the better.
I try to now look at the terrain that is between this good spot and known bedding . Pm hunts mostly but can be considered for am hunts because pressure dictates how early bucks go back to the bedding areas.
A lot of times where i am from.
Bucks will bed right on the transitions of clearcuts , swamps, or marshes. Especially early to beat the bugs.
I think most spook more deer along transitions early than we realize we do. Entry ways are so important.
This spot or (kill tree) must be have a travel route between the bucks bedding and this spot that he feels safe or comfortable traveling through during daylight.
Sufficient cover and security.
I have done this so many times in last few years without realizing it. I think alot of guys do.
They find some awesome big sign and just setup then see zilch and think what the heck?
When i have a doh moment like this i realize i would have scouted 100 yards farther i would have known or told myself .
Wow an older deer would rarely cross through this in daylight to get to that so called great spot.
Im wondering how many people do a bit more scouting before setting up on hot sign?
Going a little extra past that hot sign to see if the terrain has the things to make a buck feel safe to get to that good spot.

[oldrank]

I am not a pro or a big buck killing master but I seem to have a knack for getting a close shot.

There seems to be a couple things I do. I used to be the guy that the buck would skate me right out of range. Lately I've noticed I have improved on that.

One thing is to build your spots over the years and constantly tweak your kill tree until you get it perfect. I even make adjustments during the season or even during a hunt. Some trees I am looking to cover as many possible areas he might come through. That would be if I had multiple bedding possibilities or funnels or anything that could have a buck coming from multiple directions. In that case I look for the spot where everything come together.

With that being said, I also think with bed hunting I am focus more one one specific spot. I now can kinda feel where the buck will move to when he gets up. I am usually only focused on one particular area and if the buck does come from that area it will put him in my lap.

[headgear]

Posted this in another thread but it applies here as well, thinking back to all my encounters over the years I would say somewhere around 80% came from smoking hot sign on a first time sit. Many times I should have been setting up but I would try and push closer thinking I had to get closer and blow them out but that is part of that endless learning curve.

[Evanszach7]

It depends on the phase of the season and terrain type (farm, hill, big woods, etc). But, most important to me is the lack of hunter sign/pressure. If I didn't know the bedding this year, Ive made myself walk past a lot of sign until I bumped deer. Its cost me a few hunts, but its saved me a ton of sits that probably wouldn't have amounted to what I wanted.

On the main properties I've hunted the past 3 years I've found enough beds and sign that my OnX is hard to look at. But the past 2 seasons have been mostly lackluster. Preseason scout, some in season scouting, setup in predetermined kill trees or on hot sign. But, the best hunts I've had this year were from bedding I bumped last year, or this year. I knew when the beds are being used, and figured out why right now.

The pieces I hunt are so pressured the deer are used to being bumped, let you walk by, or have the best bedding and rarely get bumped. Im trying to find the last one and set up on that immediately or in future seasons. Some guys can probably post season scout, find beds and sign, and get a good idea of when to hunt it. Im either impatient or was misreading it a lot; had to change it up and get overly aggressive.

[oldrank]

Oh, and as for hot sign, I look for tracks. Most rubs and scrapes are fools gold IMO. I am looking for fresh tracks. Most of the beds I hunt have little sign that would let you know a buck is in the area. There may be sign on his travel routes but seldom by the beds.

[MichiganMike]

The tree that offers the best cover for you
Is on fresh sign coming out of bedding
there is a quartering wind blowing out of bedding
Good security cover surrounding-but has shot lanes

[Rob loper]

The tree that offers the best cover on fresh sign coming out of bedding -with a quartering wind blowing out of bedding.

Wind in your face or bucks face?

[MichiganMike]

The tree that offers the best cover on fresh sign coming out of bedding -with a quartering wind blowing out of bedding.

Wind in your face or bucks face?

Out of bedding preferably- but not in my face. More of a quartering wind coming out. But a quartering wind going into bedding is OK too, as long as its off his travel route or where you project him coming from. Defintely NOT in his face in my opinion. You might get lucky and maybe he wont react to your scent- but not likely.

A scenario I have that is fresh in my head is the buck I shot last year. He was aged at least 5 1/2 years old by my taxidermist. He laid down a rub line in heavy, heavy marsh security cover. He had a travel route that looked like a cattle route in mud. Anyway- I was able to avoid the doe bedding that he was monitoring and walked his runway up and as close as I could to where he was bedded- while still getting into a climable tree. It was sketchy- but I did. He was bedded approx 80 yds to the SE of me. I was facing NE to get a shot (im left handed). Wind was W/SW so it was blowing from behind me over my right shoulder. At times it would kick and swirl and shift W/NW and I thought oh crap. It wasn't ideal, but I had to get in there because I knew he was in there. His travel route headed NW and about 15 yards from my tree he stopped in the brush. He turned around and circled out to about 20 yds back East of me and started to get on an alternate runway he had to try to wind me. Fortunately I cleared a shooting lane that covered each runway. I caught him JUST before he hit my scent stream to the NE and got him.

[Rob loper]

The tree that offers the best cover on fresh sign coming out of bedding -with a quartering wind blowing out of bedding.

Wind in your face or bucks face?

Out of bedding preferably- but not in my face. More of a quartering wind coming out. But a quartering wind going into bedding is OK too, as long as its off his travel route or where you project him coming from. Defintely NOT in his face in my opinion. You might get lucky and maybe he wont react to your scent- but not likely.

Ok thats what im really seeing here. If the wind is in my face. The buck isnt there. No advantage.
If the wind is doing like u describe. Pretty good chance he there. Now if he uses the exit trail your hunting ? Thats a different story

[MichiganMike]

The tree that offers the best cover on fresh sign coming out of bedding -with a quartering wind blowing out of bedding.

Wind in your face or bucks face?

Out of bedding preferably- but not in my face. More of a quartering wind coming out. But a quartering wind going into bedding is OK too, as long as its off his travel route or where you project him coming from. Defintely NOT in his face in my opinion. You might get lucky and maybe he wont react to your scent- but not likely.

Ok thats what im really seeing here. If the wind is in my face. The buck isnt there. No advantage.
If the wind is doing like u describe. Pretty good chance he there. Now if he uses the exit trail your hunting ? Thats a different story

Yup- thats pretty much what i have experienced. I edited my last post and mentioned a scenario. I should draw a map though- would of been easier lol

[Rich M]

The more I think about it, the more I think the bucks skirting around hunters is from hunters making noise when getting into position/stand.

[Rob loper]

The more I think about it, the more I think the bucks skirting around hunters is from hunters making noise when getting into position/stand.

I agree 100%.
Wind swirl, noise, even seeing you somehow.
Thats why when people say older deer ( does to) are mostly 100% nocturnal. At least In my areas and from what i have experienced i have disagree.
I mean im sure there are extreme times of pressure that maybe keep them laid in a bed until way after dark. Relentless deer drives all day will probably make a buck or most deer almost stick tight for quite some time.
Normally hunting pressure I think they still get up and may move the last closing 20 minutes or so even 30 minutes,
Of course (very cautiously) but if they see, smell, or hear something they just don't like they still get up snd move but Just go another way.
So many hunters ask me via text, email, im. Hey Lope? see this map? How would i enter this spot?
I always say as quietly and as most hidden as you can.
I walked earlier in the year this season 2-1/2 hours to get 150 yards. No shot. My problem is and has always been tree selection. I honestly get picked off quite a bit. I think i go to high and get skylined. Then other times im 30 yards too far. But thats hunting.
I will say now that i use saddle more. I have been picked off quite a bit more than using a stand.
For of course reasons of movement allowance.
Cant sit in a tree with cover all around me and swing around 360.

[MichiganMike]

The more I think about it, the more I think the bucks skirting around hunters is from hunters making noise when getting into position/stand.

I agree 100%.
Wind swirl, noise, even seeing you somehow.
Thats why when people say older deer ( does to) are mostly 100% nocturnal. At least In my areas and from what i have experienced i have disagree.
I mean im sure there are extreme times of pressure that maybe keep them laid in a bed until way after dark. Relentless deer drives all day will probably make a buck or most deer almost stick tight for quite some time.
Normally hunting pressure I think they still get up and may move the last closing 20 minutes or so even 30 minutes,
Of course (very cautiously) but if they see, smell, or hear something they just don't like they still get up snd move but Just go another way.
So many hunters ask me via text, email, im. Hey Lope? see this map? How would i enter this spot?
I always say as quietly and as most hidden as you can.
I walked earlier in the year this season 2-1/2 hours to get 150 yards. No shot. My problem is and has always been tree selection. I honestly get picked off quite a bit. I think i go to high and get skylined. Then other times im 30 yards too far. But thats hunting.
I will say now that i use saddle more. I have been picked off quite a bit more than using a stand.
For of course reasons of movement allowance.
Cant sit in a tree with cover all around me and swing around 360.

Yeah pressure has a lot to do with it. I go in spots that hunters wont even think of going. Hopefully it stays that way! The deer seem pretty casual up until the first couple days after gun opener. After that, its a different story.

[seazofcheeze]

Oh, and as for hot sign, I look for tracks. Most rubs and scrapes are fools gold IMO. I am looking for fresh tracks. Most of the beds I hunt have little sign that would let you know a buck is in the area. There may be sign on his travel routes but seldom by the beds.

This guy gets it!

I would add, I preferably want to see those tracks heading into or out of a known or suspected bedding area.

[ODH]

Oh, and as for hot sign, I look for tracks. Most rubs and scrapes are fools gold IMO. I am looking for fresh tracks. Most of the beds I hunt have little sign that would let you know a buck is in the area. There may be sign on his travel routes but seldom by the beds.

This guy gets it!

I would add, I preferably want to see those tracks heading into or out of a known or suspected bedding area.

I just want to add an example and say first I agree completely. I really focused on this in November this year. The only thing that gave older bucks away in November (in my area) was tracks. The only older buck I could find leaving any other sign was freshening a series of scrapes daily 11/16-19, appeared to be in the early morning darkness on the way back to bedding. Only with the benefit of snow was I able to track him back to the bed. The scrapes were about 250 yards from the bed. His route from the scrapes had several big rubs on it, most about 50 yards from the scrapes, but they were last touched about 2 weeks prior (guess). Even though he was hitting the scrapes he didn’t rub those trees despite walking right past them multiple days in a row. I/we did not get that deer. None of the other bucks we chased were leaving any sign that we could find except their large tracks here and there. All were still either with or looking for does at that time (11/15-25).