Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

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KLEMZ
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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby KLEMZ » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:51 am

Motivated wrote:Another question for the podcast might be, "how do you like to hunt in light and variable winds?"


I also would like to hear you're take on this. Wishful thinking on my part I'm sure, but, you mentioned beautiful fall days (high pressure weather) and thermals rising straight up, is this an opportunity to dive in close to a great wind sensitive spot? If yes...how long into the day before the wind starts getting squirrely? I have always avoided my "best spots" on light and variable forcasts.


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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby sojourner » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:03 pm

Bigburner wrote:
sojourner wrote:Thanks Bigburner.

I have one area that that perplexes me with wind. Say there is a generally East / West powerline. Both sides are swampy with some rise in elevation to the north. If wind is predicted as west, when I drop milkweed while on the powerline, the milkweed steadily floats East. It when I get just inside the woods to the north or south, the wind is not stable in its direction or “speed” (how fast and where it moves the milkweed). Then getting further into the woods (away from the powerline) it does not behave as erratic.

I am guessing it is tied to topography and the absence of canopy on the power line, but just don’t know how to crack this nut.

Can you shed some light on topography with regard to power lines / gas lines in the woods?

Thank you.

Hi sojourner. Good question. So one thing that first pops out to me is the fact that whatever wind is passing down that power line especially if it is aligned, its getting compressed. Read up on a topic called Venturi effect. This happens in a lot of cases. one physical feature would be your power line. Another one i can think of would be a saddle in a ridge line where the wind is passing between the two peaks. Also, it doesn't just occur when passing between vertically situated objects. The wind can become compressed and pick up speed on a horizontal plane when it encounters a rise or slope as well. In your case, when the wind is passing down the power line, it goes from high pressure to low pressure and as it gets compressed it increases in speed. And the closer you get to the power line, the tree line is causing turbulence from the friction of the wind being passed through and across an uneven vertical surface. it is rolling out to the sides in that zone and causing all sorts of swirls in the form of eddies and once you get far enough into the woods that effect dissipates. So, for you being in that zone, since its a static physical barrier I don't know what you can do to combat that. You know that tendency exists. Its just tough spot and some spots may only be right on certain times. If you where finding bedding in there I could see why a buck would like it because he could situate his bed to capitalize on those characteristics and be out of there before you even had an inkling that he was around. One thing I will preface with all the info. Milkweed is your friend. The most honest friend you'll ever hunt with :lol:


Thanks Bigburner! I will be further looking up the Venturi effect. First look to me is that the effect speeds up the wind in the constricted space at ground level of the power line relative to the tree line on each side. That makes sense to me. I don’t know if it is right or not.

This YouTube is interesting and mentions Venturi effect twice.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0SFaaMVHDg8

I use milkweek, but I think I don’t use it enough. I guess I should be throwing it out more frequently than I do.

Great topic and thanks for sharing your expertise!
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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby backstraps » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:33 am

Thanks BB for a super descriptive post


I have read over it a few times and I think I have a better understanding of a few things.

When guys describe things and relate them to a hunting scenario or story...I can more easily grasp the point being made.

There are a few box canyons/ thermal hubs I attempt to hunt and always seem to get busted

You mention hunting the open end...sometimes these canyons are very long
In your podcast or here, do you have a couple of examples of how you hunt these areas?
Any examples, either successful hunts or even hunts with a visual of the buck would be awesome if you would share.

Another.... in these bluebird days, do you have tactics to still get in and hunt? Reason for that question is early season in my areas are majority of bluebird, light and variable days.

Thanks again BB! Great stuff
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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby greenhorndave » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:28 am

backstraps wrote:Thanks BB for a super descriptive post


I have read over it a few times and I think I have a better understanding of a few things.

When guys describe things and relate them to a hunting scenario or story...I can more easily grasp the point being made.

There are a few box canyons/ thermal hubs I attempt to hunt and always seem to get busted

You mention hunting the open end...sometimes these canyons are very long
In your podcast or here, do you have a couple of examples of how you hunt these areas?
Any examples, either successful hunts or even hunts with a visual of the buck would be awesome if you would share.

Another.... in these bluebird days, do you have tactics to still get in and hunt? Reason for that question is early season in my areas are majority of bluebird, light and variable days.

Thanks again BB! Great stuff

The other challenge with that comes in the form dry vegetation being LOUD. And light variable makes sound carry.
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Sometimes when things get tough, weird or both, you just need to remember this...
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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby Jackson Marsh » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:01 am

That was very well done Bigburner. I am looking forward to your podcast.
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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:17 pm

There is no doubt that this post is a highly technical presentation of information. I suggest printing it out or filing it in a word file or something similar. There is some great information in it.

When I was talking with Erich on this topic my head was exploding and I was thinking of how I could get him to share it. The answer is in the thread. It is sometimes good to get blown away with technical information and then say to yourself, this is complicated. You then have to simplify it to apply it. The answer is in the thread. Milkweed. That is how the longhaired madman figured all this out. Bigburner new this stuff, but didn't know how to apply it initially. dan has helped us all with this topic. So don't get overwhelmed, just embrace it. Write down a few basic things, and drop your milkweed and continue to learn.
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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby Bigburner » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 am

Pretty much what it comes down to. Milkweed put the visuals to all this stuff into play. The info is to preemptively have you thinking how a piece of ground you are hunting will react to given conditions prior to hunting it or during. Don’t get too overwhelmed in the process. I didn’t learn this stuff over night. It was hours in a classroom or standing in a front of a class instructing. And thousands of hours apply it in the field over two decades. I just really appreciate everyone’s time and consideration. The comments have been great and I’ve been keeping track of the all the questions and have some applicable info for those of you who fielded them. I was just glad I could further open some eyes to what we deal with out there. All the hard work and dedication it takes to put a nice buck on the ground garners a lot of respect in the Beast community because everyone knows it’s earned and I think that is outstanding.
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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:52 am

Just started rewatching (is that a word?) Hill Country Bedding in the shop to see if I could soak in a little more of this stuff.
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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby Rob loper » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:16 pm

Eric is the bomb, great people. Met eric late 2017.
When i first joined this forum, we eventually realized we lived in same area and we never realized that our daughters actually became friends. They still are.
We used to talk quite a bit and Erich actually took me out in a state forest piece that he hunts and works in.
He showed me specific locations and explained a-lot of why , whens , and where’s.
Very, very knowledgeable man. Helped a-lot.
It was a-lot to take in but he explained a-lot of things in a more simple way.
Like i said we were getting to be friends but for some reason we just stopped communicating. No clue why but sometimes life gets in the way. Shame.
Ive been really trying to learn and share what ive learned since i joined in 2017. I still suck but im seeing a ton of more bucks but im horrible at tree selection. To be honest i sm too dar or im too close or i get picked off a ton.
I am quite a big fella.
I average 40-55 hunts a year 3 kids,jobs, and other just wont allow me to get much more yet.
Im not complaining or making excuses at all just saying.

Me and Erich are both from Delaware and live in the southern part of it. Our state is super small we have a ton of pressure on public and most of our public is accessible from all directions.
The pressure of course gets worse and worse as the season closer to rut. The the pressure just explodes with gun season opening early to mid November.
So with that said its that much harder to find the pockets of bedding that are undisturbed.
The bucks shift slot. And i mean alot. Timing is super critical here.
There are access roads and walkable ditches on or throughout most of our state forests and even some of our marshes.
It is just about impossible if you have just an inkling of direction concept to get lost here. You may get Turned around for a spell ? Yea but ya gotta just stop listen for a dog bark, passing car , or a leaf blower, you will hear it.
The bright eyes i find on the way out of some of these small parcels i find just puzzle me. Lol. Its crazy.
Small makes the deer live close to us and just about among us
They see and hear people every day.
They watch us and in my opinion keep tabs on a-lot of things. ( pattern us).
In most of our pieces of public in Delaware if you walked 2 miles or even a mile back , you would probably end trespassing on someones property. Or you would end up on the Delaware bay.
Now of course you yes you can walk a mile looping around or scouting transitions or some public areas but in my experience here. There are very few miles deep public properties. At least in sussex or kent counties that i know of.
I scout 3-4 days a week probably 8 months a year.
The other 4 i glass or observe places or check easy access cams.
Basically there is not many pieces i haven't walked in my county.
Erich is so right and most of the big boys are bedding using wind and eyes to watch in front of them.
Wind and sight bedding in my opinion especially during pressured times.
They seem to love to see and smell whats out ahead of them with a huge nasty obstacle to their back or tucked up under a holy tree that has nasty briars intertwined within its branches within a moist dark pine thicket that stays cool and just sucks thermals/scent from every direction. ( in my opinion Bullet proof bedding)
The beds i find are usually 30-50 yards inside of thick pines growth areas like described above. Then some like Erich described around small ponds or large lakes.
Bucks Back to lake watching and smelling in front.
Also i want to note from the best of my knowledge From what I've read and found out Delaware does not have many predators.
A Few coyotes here a ton of foxes, but as far as i know at least Kent and Sussex counties have no wolves, bears, cats of any sort. Humans are a deer’s main predator.
With that said the winds and thermals are super super important and with the different thinned Pine areas,
pine thickets , huge briar holes, big clearcuts, farms areas snd marshes butted up to pretty much all of this make the wind and thermals so much more important.
Access to some of these areas are so key because eyes are watching almost everywhere. Looping around a piece to get to the back of a parking lot is alot of times what ya gotta do. Its slot of extra time and work.
But hopefully very rewarding.
Also most of our public is surrounded or butts up against large chunks of private farms. So I am also finding that ( most) not all ( most) big mature deer are bedding or retreating to the large chunks of private and using slot of the public at night.
Erich is definitely one that really knows his stuff and imo if he posts you probably should read it.
Thermals , winds, and a-lot of this stuff is really for some people confusing snd to most you can explain this to a science or even simplify it to them but i think it is something that most people must see with their own eyes to make it click.
It can be simple one day then an hour later be super complex or hard. I do not ever listen to the wind direction from the weather man. I assess where i want to hunt and try ti figure how the wind is swirling in that area. Because i don't care what the weatherman says.
The wind swirls in the woods almost everywhere
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Bigburner Call out Wind, Thermals, topography

Unread postby OH nontypical » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:02 pm

Fantastic amount of well thought out information here. I hunt a lot of hill country and have been for a long time. I still sometimes struggle to understand how bucks use the wind in hilly country.

Thanks for sharing!!


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