Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
- comeback_kid
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Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
I have heard this stated by a prominent habitat guy that it's b/c they don't like the brush rubbing on their sensitive antlers. In your experience is this true? I know of one top notch bedding area that doesn't hold bucks until fall.
- Dewey
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
Makes sense and seen that same pattern over the years. Bucks know the velvet horns are very fragile. Summer bedding is in much more open areas and bucks start showing up on cams in thicker areas much more often after velvet removal. Some related to hunting pressure obviously but also for the reason mentioned. At least that’s my experience.
- Twenty Up
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
I’d agree they definitely seem to avoid the more woody foliage.
But softer, pliable foliage like swamp grass, native grasses, soybeans, milo etc they will bed in that.
But softer, pliable foliage like swamp grass, native grasses, soybeans, milo etc they will bed in that.
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
I believe this to be true. The bucks definitely want to avoid all out flight through thick cover while in velvet. I don't know if this is just instinct to protect their headgear or if the velvet racks are sensitive.
From what I've seen there are summer bedding patterns that are consistent with this theory. Example... bedding down near a river during summer, then, bedding on the adjacent hill points come fall. The river bottom has lush, soft vegetation (and is cooler I'm sure).
However, I've also noticed that primary buck bedding is usually in openish areas within a high stem count area or on the edge of a high stem count area. And there is ALWAYS plenty of room to move around with a big sensitive rack. If you find multiple beds in an area that looks like rabbit cover, you have found a doe bedding spot. Bucks need room to move. So even when hard horned, they prefer room enough to move around without constant brush interfering with their racks. From what I've seen.
From what I've seen there are summer bedding patterns that are consistent with this theory. Example... bedding down near a river during summer, then, bedding on the adjacent hill points come fall. The river bottom has lush, soft vegetation (and is cooler I'm sure).
However, I've also noticed that primary buck bedding is usually in openish areas within a high stem count area or on the edge of a high stem count area. And there is ALWAYS plenty of room to move around with a big sensitive rack. If you find multiple beds in an area that looks like rabbit cover, you have found a doe bedding spot. Bucks need room to move. So even when hard horned, they prefer room enough to move around without constant brush interfering with their racks. From what I've seen.
- Marshbuster89
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
It’s a very interesting and believable theory for sure. That along with their “lazy” summer patterns is probably what leads to them to bed so close to food. Makes sense for sure.
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- austin1990
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
It's a believable theory and in some areas I hunt I believe it. But I know of a couple spots that are crazy thick that velvet bucks bed in. Pretty typical in this area for the bucks to have a hole in their horn, crooked tine, or knot on a tine and I think that's due to the thick vegetation.
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
Probably other factors at play too....more/thicker cover available this time of year opposed to fall.
Nearly zero human intrusion and hunting pressure.
I don't think they are completely dumb and are probably just like people and can be extremely lazy. Why travel/bed/live in the nasty stuff if you can have security right next to the food???
Are their nerve endings in antler? Hard or in velvet? Never really considered that they could be sensitive.
I understand they still have natural predators and still require secure bedding. But they can have that sitting under a shade tree in a treeline overlooking a field this time of year.
Nearly zero human intrusion and hunting pressure.
I don't think they are completely dumb and are probably just like people and can be extremely lazy. Why travel/bed/live in the nasty stuff if you can have security right next to the food???
Are their nerve endings in antler? Hard or in velvet? Never really considered that they could be sensitive.
I understand they still have natural predators and still require secure bedding. But they can have that sitting under a shade tree in a treeline overlooking a field this time of year.
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
Twenty Up wrote:I’d agree they definitely seem to avoid the more woody foliage.
But softer, pliable foliage like swamp grass, native grasses, soybeans, milo etc they will bed in that.
This. I also agree with what Jeff says about bucks avoiding high stem count areas during antler growth, however he can come across as sounding like they only hang out in open hardwoods and fields during this time. As Twenty mentioned they have no problem bedding in some higher step count habitat as long as the grasses, cattails, crops etc are not rigid
- Hawthorne
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
Yes and no. I have a pic of a nice buck coming out of an autumn olive and rose thicket last summer. If it looks like only a rabbit can walk thru it then yeah. If you can barely move thru it with some struggle then it’s nothing to a deer.I do think they prefer the open woods better in summer
- stash59
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
I have watched summer bucks quite a bit in past years. They do seem to be more careful with their antlers while they are in velvet. They seem very aware of what they can get through. Not just in the summer velvet stage, but hard horned too. I've watched bucks in fields that were in velvet. When a more dominant buck was guarding his choice spot of food. He would still display in a similar way as when he would be in a rut situation. But if it looked like it would actually come to blows. The head would come back. And if the lesser buck still pushed things. The more dominant would rear on it's hind feet and flail it's front hooves. Like when does fight.
So, yes, I believe they do use areas that provide less chance for damage to their antlers. But it also coincides with, less human pressure in the woods. And saving energy, so they stay closer to their food sources. Which are often more open areas, or areas with plants that are less damaging to antlers.
That being said. I've seen bucks and actually shot a young buck. With really messed up antlers. That had to have been caused from burrowing in, to something thick and nasty. I'm sure the young buck I killed was using a raspberry tangle for it's main bedding area. Even through the summer. Pressure from predators, personality, maybe even being lowest on the dominance totum pole. Could lead to some bucks bedding in these thicker, antler damaging bedding areas. Even during the velvet stage of their antlers.
On a side note. Out west elk and mule deer bachelor groups are often only seen in large open parks, or above timberline if it's available. If they're in the trees it's usually in the more open timber areas. During the summer velvet stage of the year.
So, yes, I believe they do use areas that provide less chance for damage to their antlers. But it also coincides with, less human pressure in the woods. And saving energy, so they stay closer to their food sources. Which are often more open areas, or areas with plants that are less damaging to antlers.
That being said. I've seen bucks and actually shot a young buck. With really messed up antlers. That had to have been caused from burrowing in, to something thick and nasty. I'm sure the young buck I killed was using a raspberry tangle for it's main bedding area. Even through the summer. Pressure from predators, personality, maybe even being lowest on the dominance totum pole. Could lead to some bucks bedding in these thicker, antler damaging bedding areas. Even during the velvet stage of their antlers.
On a side note. Out west elk and mule deer bachelor groups are often only seen in large open parks, or above timberline if it's available. If they're in the trees it's usually in the more open timber areas. During the summer velvet stage of the year.
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- ThePreBanMan
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Re: Velvet bucks avoid "high stem count" cover?
I've seen them turn their heads and walk gingerly through cover as well - even when hard horned. But then I've also seen them tear through and come out with brush hanging from their antlers as well.
I have a buck on my wall that has a tine which he must have broken or injured when in velvet.
I have a buck on my wall that has a tine which he must have broken or injured when in velvet.
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