Tim talks north woods scrapes...

[KLEMZ]

Your welcome guys! I hope lots of people find that information helpful.

I've been realizing that the secondary logging trails are an important travel influencing pattern for bucks for a few seasons now. I also was starting to suspect that scrapes are more important than I had given them credit for. When I watched Tim's video a light bulb went on. DUH! The majority of the scrape areas I find are actually on or just off of a secondary logging trail.

Think of it. Scrapes are destinations a buck wants to visit even in daylight. Secondary trails are corridors of secure easy walking that a buck is drawn to. Find a secondary trail running close to bedding habitat that also has scrapes on it! What more could a hunter do to define where to kill a "nomadic" (big woods, north woods, south woods) buck?

[stash59]

My northwoods experience is pretty limited compared to you and klemz Tim. And plenty of other Beasts. But all of my northwoods mature buck encounters occurred. At, near scrapes or on buck travel corridors, between scrape areas. I called/determined these corridors by rub lines and rub clusters. Sometimes these encounters occurred on scrape lines. All of the close encounters were near or right on the transitions of open/semi open to thick. Didn't know that was a key element at the time. But the old logging roads I sat. Where it was more open. I never saw a deer, let alone a buck. Even on scrape lines that appeared to be hit daily. I'd have to look at a Lidar map of the area. To see if any of those spots had old logging roads or narrow gauge tracks at one time. Some I know for a certainty were the edge between wet and dry land. I was hunting the 1st 2 weeks of November. If I could have actually hit something back then. I'd have some proof to show. But I always choked. So you just have to take my word for it.

[Tim H]

My northwoods experience is pretty limited compared to you and klemz Tim. And plenty of other Beasts. But all of my northwoods mature buck encounters occurred. At, near scrapes or on buck travel corridors, between scrape areas. I called/determined these corridors by rub lines and rub clusters. Sometimes these encounters occurred on scrape lines. All of the close encounters were near or right on the transitions of open/semi open to thick. Didn't know that was a key element at the time. But the old logging roads I sat. Where it was more open. I never saw a deer, let alone a buck. Even on scrape lines that appeared to be hit daily. I'd have to look at a Lidar map of the area. To see if any of those spots had old logging roads or narrow gauge tracks at one time. Some I know for a certainty were the edge between wet and dry land. I was hunting the 1st 2 weeks of November. If I could have actually hit something back then. I'd have some proof to show. But I always choked. So you just have to take my word for it.

Thanks for the comment Chuck! I hope you're doing well!

One of the benefits of the secondary trails (at least by me) is they are actually a lot of the time a transition in the terrain. The loggers for whatever good reason would have these trails near the transitions. Probably because they are cutting their trees up until they hit a swamp/marsh or whatever. The deer already like the transitions for travel and bedding. The older trails that were formed allowed the deer quick access on a route that takes them places quickly and quietly through the land. It's certainly not a slam dunk but it opens up opportunity to get on some bucks in daylight given the circumstances are in your favor.

[funderburk]

Good video, Tim! Scrapes are so interesting and it seems that hunters can either completely misunderstand them and waste a ton of time hunting over them, or they seem to understand the bigger picture and utilize that information to consistently take mature bucks over scrapes. You’re definitely the latter. I’m a scrape nerd and really enjoyed this

[swwave24]

Nice job Tim!

Enjoyed listening to your perspective on Bigwoods scraps.

[Tim H]

Good video, Tim! Scrapes are so interesting and it seems that hunters can either completely misunderstand them and waste a ton of time hunting over them, or they seem to understand the bigger picture and utilize that information to consistently take mature bucks over scrapes. You’re definitely the latter. I’m a scrape nerd and really enjoyed this

Thanks Funderburk! I also find scrapes fascinating. Learning and deciphering scrapes to me is a big part of woodsman ship and hunting whitetails. It's the same with any sign that you find whether it's beds, rubs, or tracks. The more you really study the sign that the bucks give you, the better hunter you'll be in the end. Thanks for the compliment and good luck next season!

[Bonecrusher101]

I’ve got a chunk of big woods here in TN, that I struggle figuring out. I’ve killed one good buck in it, and have seen some studs but I’m never consistently on the deer like I am with some of my other public lands.

This one is mostly mature hardwoods, but also has areas of swamp and briars and cane thickets especially when one of the giant trees come down in a storm and opens up the canopy. Everything you mentioned applies!

There’s very few deer, but they have potential to reach maturity better than some of the other areas I hunt. The deer also seem nomadic, and bedding Is extremely hard to pinpoint and from what I’ve been able to see is that the deer don’t keep consistent bedding.

I feel like watching your video was a complete DUHH!!! Moment for me when I’m walking around lost trying to pinpoint constant bedding. I need to focus on what the deer are giving me, which is fresh scrapes that are isolated and have adequate cover for daytime activity. Thank you much for making this video! Very informative!

Thank you sir! Don't get me wrong. I love bedding areas. Especially Doe bedding areas in pre rut time, but they are just harder to find with a low density of deer. I think the term nomadic means a little bit different for everyone. Some it means across the country. For me I'd think a few miles away is nomadic. But Magic Man Todd Havel believes in a rut circuit. I also believe that. The deer might leave but in a few days they usually are back. Thanks for watching! I appreciate it!

Is there a link or podcast on rut circuit? I’d love to learn more about that! Thanks again for the video.

He probably talks about it in this podcast with Kevin Vistisen.

https://youtu.be/Hc9OmztpIHI

Thank you!

Wow, it took me a few days and I had to break it down into a few sections to try to digest all of that podcast! This explained so many things I was seeing in on one property but not on another in correlation to the size of the wood lots.

This podcast puts a different spin on a J hook and why might they do it. This podcast also describes why trying to find bedding in certain areas is so sporadic. It also touches on why bucks won’t worry sometimes about travel direction verses wind direction.

This was very enlightening to me. I need to focus on why and how deer use different areas. I get tunnel vision and fall into the trap of thinking if it worked on a farm area it should work in a 10k acre mature hardwood forest which isn’t the case.

[perchsoup]

Very interesting topic. Lots of good stuff to think about.

Do you employ this tactic all year, given the scrapes tend to be used all year? Or do you mainly focus on it only during the rut? It seems like a great tactic if you find the right spot but how do you decide to sit the trail rather than a bed for example? Is it the time of the year? Lots of questions, sorry. Or what percentage of the bucks you shoot or how many bucks have you shot doing this?

[Tennhunter3]

Alot of great info.
Primary Scrapes have definitely changed how I hunt during rut.

[Singing Bridge]

Once again, great post Tim. I have a short, unedited video clip that I will have to dig out showing the recovery of a big woods buck off an overgrown logging trail and primary scrapes.

Bridge

[MichiganMike]

Great info and footage! Awesome work putting this together. Really hits home over here in Michigan too. Thanks for sharing

[KLEMZ]

I am bumping this thread because I stumbled across some new mapping information that might help someone. Knowing the location of overgrown logging roads in the northwoods (those not on maps or kept open by people), is an important opportunity to find hidden travel corridors where mature bucks travel and make scrapes in daylight hours.

Lidar hillshade views have the hi resolution detail to show all manmade changes to the landscape...including logging skid roads from 125 years ago. Well, I just noticed that Caltopo has a big portion of the country covered with the hi rez lidar hill shade views. However, it is not 100% coverage. Look at the picture and you can see the difference between the left side detail and the right side. The right side is the standard detail of normal google terrain view, the left side is Lidar generated detail.



Check out your hunting area and see if it is in the Lidar areas. This is located in Caltopo in the "Normal" view.

[Dewey]

I like Lidar for hills. Really gives a great feel for the terrain much more than a topo ever could.

[Tim H]

I like Lidar for hills. Really gives a great feel for the terrain much more than a topo ever could.

I’m glad Klemz showed me the lidar. The detail is amazing!

[greenhorndave]

Yeah, I’ve heard one of the Southern Outdoorsman podcast guys talking about it but haven’t looked into it. Seems like an interesting tool