Ranch Ferry.

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EllieTheChubb
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby EllieTheChubb » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:45 pm

Trout wrote:
EllieTheChubb wrote:
Trout wrote:I think with stuff like this, it's easy for guys like "us" to think everyone else is hunting with similar arrow setups. Most of "us" probably arent shooting the lightest arrow our bow can safely shoot like a lot of "regukar" guys are.

Let's say I shot 70#, 29" draw and a 400 grain arrow with a rage hypodermic on the front. That's a fairly light whitetail setup, even for non Ashby system followers. With that setup, a guy needs to pick his shot placement carefully or any bone, including ribs, could create an issue. Pass through shots are possible, but non-pass through are probably more common.

Anyone in that department is gonna really benefit from watching ranch fairy and thinking about a heavier setup- even if they stick with my mechanicals and only go up to 475 or 500 grains. Even if they only go up to 450 grains.

The longer I'm around the archery industry, the more I see that big pendulum swing from one side of the spectrum to the next, and back again. Current cam technology has about reached its limit. Bows arent getting much faster anymore, so its time to sell us on heavier arrows. When someone invents a new cam that pushes new limits on speed, it will be time to sell us on speed again. What's interesting to me on the current heavier arrow fad is it's not being pushed by the industry as much as it is guys on internet forums.

Last thing I will say is more efficient arrow setups are good for hunters and deer, even if they are overkill, and that's a good thing to see people excited about.



You're definitely right there. If you just shoot some box arrows and 100g BH you are probably just above or below 400g. Thats like shooting low brass in a shotgun. Adding an extra 50-100g will quiet your bow down and increase your penetration.



That's the thing, that's not even a "box" arrow. There are pro shops setting people up.with arrows like that every day. I actually use that example because my local pro shop tried setting me up with almost exactly that arrow. There are thousands of guys pit there shooting stuff like that at deer.



It probably goes back to the aluminum days. Folks shot a heavy arrow and didnt know it.

I dont know off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure my current weight is around 500g 15%+ foc. (Far from what RF pushes) I personally wouldnt want to shoot anything lighter. I guess I just take it for granted that hunters put a little extra on it.


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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby The_Real_Jmill » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:10 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:
The_Real_Jmill wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
The_Real_Jmill wrote:I will say all hunters should use whatever hunting setup floats their boat as long as they are proficient and it is legal.

But I do find it intriguing so many are jumping on the wagon to completely overhaul their arrow setups for whitetail. Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.

There is no magic in heavy arrow setups, yes they penetrate better but the hunter still has to do their part making an accurate and ethical shot.



In a perfect world where the animal is perfectly broadside, unobstructed, not moving, doesn't jump the string, etc... Sure. Heavy, high FoC arrows really aren't going to help in perfect situations like that. They're for situations like quartering to shots, or partially obstructed shots where the only angle at both lungs is through the shoulder, or for when we make a mistake and hit "a little too far forward". When everything goes absolutely perfect, even a light arrow with a field point will kill a deer. But that's not what we're discussing.


You say perfect and I would say ethical.

I don't take quartering too shots or shots where deer are moving or vitals are obstructed and I don't think anyone should regardless of setup, but to each their own. I've only ever taken broadside and quartering away and all within 25 yards, this is what I was taught and it has served me well in my 15+ years of bow hunting.

If altering equipment is to make up for poor decision making/shot attempts then it is being done for the wrong reason.

Accidents happen but a low percentage shot is a low percentage shot.

No magic in this game, just smart well placed shots.


If you only take "ethical" shots at animals at close range presenting wide-open unobstructed broadside shots while never moving, you must not have killed many deer in that 15 years of hunting. Regardless of what one person considers "ethical" or not, in the real world ____ happens as they say. As Dr. Ashby's roughly 30 years of study have scientifically shown, when it does happen and you hit that bone, you want that weight and you want it up front.

Physics don't lie son...


So were at the point in the discussion where you have to talk down to me and question my hunting success??

FWIW I've killed 40+ in those 15 years, all of which (including the two bucks in my avatar shot 30 min apart on a heavily hunted piece of public land) gave me "perfect" broadside/quartering away unobstructed shots.

I've had to let plenty of deer walk, but I owe it to the animal not to take a low percentage shot.

I still stand by what I said take high percentage ethical shots and it really doesn't matter with the right equipment setup, take poor low percentage shots and expect poor results.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby MrT » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:28 am

EllieTheChubb wrote:
Trout wrote:I think with stuff like this, it's easy for guys like "us" to think everyone else is hunting with similar arrow setups. Most of "us" probably arent shooting the lightest arrow our bow can safely shoot like a lot of "regukar" guys are.

Let's say I shot 70#, 29" draw and a 400 grain arrow with a rage hypodermic on the front. That's a fairly light whitetail setup, even for non Ashby system followers. With that setup, a guy needs to pick his shot placement carefully or any bone, including ribs, could create an issue. Pass through shots are possible, but non-pass through are probably more common.

Anyone in that department is gonna really benefit from watching ranch fairy and thinking about a heavier setup- even if they stick with my mechanicals and only go up to 475 or 500 grains. Even if they only go up to 450 grains.

The longer I'm around the archery industry, the more I see that big pendulum swing from one side of the spectrum to the next, and back again. Current cam technology has about reached its limit. Bows arent getting much faster anymore, so its time to sell us on heavier arrows. When someone invents a new cam that pushes new limits on speed, it will be time to sell us on speed again. What's interesting to me on the current heavier arrow fad is it's not being pushed by the industry as much as it is guys on internet forums.

Last thing I will say is more efficient arrow setups are good for hunters and deer, even if they are overkill, and that's a good thing to see people excited about.



You're definitely right there. If you just shoot some box arrows and 100g BH you are probably just above or below 400g. Thats like shooting low brass in a shotgun. Adding an extra 50-100g will quiet your bow down and increase your penetration.

The easiest thing most hunters can do to increase penetration is going cut on contact and sharpening them. Dont just assume they are good right out of the box.


This is exactly what I had going on and why I feel the recent discussions on arrow setups, weight, and FOC is a good thing. I was one of those guys who hadn't gone that in depth to these kinds of things and people like THP and Ranch Fairy got me thinking. When I looked at my arrows for this stuff I found that depending on what broadhead I had on I was just under or over 400g and less than 7%FOC. I still killed a lot of deer, but I thought about my kills over the years and can't remember too many passthroughs.

For whitetails, some simple tweaks and tuning could greatly improve my current setups. But for when I bowhunt hogs for the first time this year, I'm gonna need something that's got a little more kick.

I can compare it to when I first discovered beast tactics. It caused me to think more about what I was actually doing in the woods, not just finding an area that "looked good". It made me think about what I was doing and what the sign was telling me. THP and Ranch Fairy have gotten people like me to actually think about what we're actually launching at these deer, and for that I think these discussions are great.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Aaron1987 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:54 am

EllieTheChubb wrote:
Aaron1987 wrote:
EllieTheChubb wrote:
Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:


My local bow guru's take on adult arrows: "how far do you want the arrow to stick in the ground after it goes through the deer?"

The main reason why THP switched to single bevel heavier arrows is because of all the ground hunting they do. For the average stand hunter its just not necessary. That said its fun to play around with your tackle. Am I going to do an arrow overhaul? No. That said anything that gets people thinking about their gear and shooting more is good for the sport.


Actually we switched because of situations that happened from a tree. We’ve seen multiple deflections on broadside shots with light arrows and mechanicals. Obviously this doesn’t happen every time but on 3 separate occasions in the past 4 years arrows have deflected either off the scapula or a rib. We also have seen footage of many similar issues with light setups.

To each their own of course. If it works for you, don’t change. These are just our experiences. All issues came on fully grown mature bucks with heavier bone structure.



Thanks for the correction Aaron!

I thought Zach said in one of your videos he changed his setup because of all the crp you were hunting in. Something about practicing preseason in tall grass... I guess I'm remembering wrong. My bad!


No he did say that as well. he hasn’t changed his setup yet to heavier arrows but plans to this summer
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Twenty Up » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:03 am

Aaron1987 wrote:
Twenty Up wrote:As with anything there’s a bell curve, here it’s between arrow weight/FOC and Speed.

This is a personal question you need to ask yourself, “how many deer am I missing high/low?”

Personally, I’ve missed a lot of deer high or low because I never had the opportunity to range them. Most have been off of the ground walking to a spot, during the rut etc..

There’s a significant difference between 32 yards and 40. I learned this the hard way after missing a 153 1/8th buck, confirmed when my buddies boss had killed him :violin:

For me, 270-280 FPS is the “sweet spot”, trying to squeeze out 12% FOC and around 450 grains total arrow weight.

Nobody cares how far your arrow stuck in the ground if you misjudge the yardage ;)


This is true but also dependent on how far you’ll comfortably shoot at a whitetail. We don’t take shots past 30 yards because we feel the impact point is more difficult to control due to deer moving at the sound of the shot.

Inside that distance, we’re not concerned with arrow drop. My pin gap from 20-30 yards barely changed when I switched from a 480 grain arrow to a 580.


I’ve been dabbling with arrow ballistics calculators & arrow spine calculators a lot recently, the arrow drop out to 30 is around 4-6” with my setup, going from ~400ish to 510. Once I hit 600 grains, the arrow drop gets closer to 1’ at 30 yards

Aaron I’ve gotta ask, since most of y’all have gone up in FOC, have y’all seen a reduction in arrow deflection off of twigs/leaves etc?
Also, are you going to continue to shoot single bevels or are you going to switch back to fixed blades?
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Redman232 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:34 am

Aaron1987 wrote:
EllieTheChubb wrote:
Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:


My local bow guru's take on adult arrows: "how far do you want the arrow to stick in the ground after it goes through the deer?"

The main reason why THP switched to single bevel heavier arrows is because of all the ground hunting they do. For the average stand hunter its just not necessary. That said its fun to play around with your tackle. Am I going to do an arrow overhaul? No. That said anything that gets people thinking about their gear and shooting more is good for the sport.


Actually we switched because of situations that happened from a tree. We’ve seen multiple deflections on broadside shots with light arrows and mechanicals. Obviously this doesn’t happen every time but on 3 separate occasions in the past 4 years arrows have deflected either off the scapula or a rib. We also have seen footage of many similar issues with light setups.

To each their own of course. If it works for you, don’t change. These are just our experiences. All issues came on fully grown mature bucks with heavier bone structure.



This is why I switched, a 120 lbs field dressed doe, is a completely different animal than a 200+ lbs dressed out buck. The weight difference is all muscle mass and bone density. I hunted with a 375-425 gr setup for 15+ years. I never ran into any major issues with does or any of the small bucks I killed (a few slight deflections that i can recall). I arrowed 5 mature bucks in that time frame. 3 died, 2 were not recovered. None were pass throughs. All more or less broadside shots(Slight quartering to angle on a couple). Seems like everyone blasted out of the gate like their hind end was on fire. The last one was a 10 yard shot, slightly quartering to me. I hit the front side shoulder blade, got 8" of penetration and never found any blood after 50 yds. I only picked up my arrow that night and to my knowledge did not jump that deer. I looked for 4 days afterwards and 2 full days that winter. Never found that deer, and I'm not convinced my broadhead ever entered the body cavity. That winter i made the change to a 550 gr setup with 17% FOC. I wish the Ranch Fairy channel was around then, it would have saved me a ton of tinkering.

Since switching, every shot has been a pass through and into the dirt on the other side. 4 of the 5 have mule kicked and trotted 20-40 yds and dropped. I realize this is all anecdotal evidence. Arrow trajectory was not effected much, I still only shoot 2 pins, 30 and 40 yards. If you're running up past 600 gr maybe then it's like throwing an axe, but I haven't seen any downside to the change I made. Generally I feel like all the tinkering with equipment is wasted effort, when a lack of focus on deer behavior, scouting and setups is why most people aren't successful (In my opinion anyways). But this is one that I've personally seen and feel has made a big difference for me.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Aaron1987 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:39 am

Twenty Up wrote:
Aaron1987 wrote:
Twenty Up wrote:As with anything there’s a bell curve, here it’s between arrow weight/FOC and Speed.

This is a personal question you need to ask yourself, “how many deer am I missing high/low?”

Personally, I’ve missed a lot of deer high or low because I never had the opportunity to range them. Most have been off of the ground walking to a spot, during the rut etc..

There’s a significant difference between 32 yards and 40. I learned this the hard way after missing a 153 1/8th buck, confirmed when my buddies boss had killed him :violin:

For me, 270-280 FPS is the “sweet spot”, trying to squeeze out 12% FOC and around 450 grains total arrow weight.

Nobody cares how far your arrow stuck in the ground if you misjudge the yardage ;)


This is true but also dependent on how far you’ll comfortably shoot at a whitetail. We don’t take shots past 30 yards because we feel the impact point is more difficult to control due to deer moving at the sound of the shot.

Inside that distance, we’re not concerned with arrow drop. My pin gap from 20-30 yards barely changed when I switched from a 480 grain arrow to a 580.


I’ve been dabbling with arrow ballistics calculators & arrow spine calculators a lot recently, the arrow drop out to 30 is around 4-6” with my setup, going from ~400ish to 510. Once I hit 600 grains, the arrow drop gets closer to 1’ at 30 yards

Aaron I’ve gotta ask, since most of y’all have gone up in FOC, have y’all seen a reduction in arrow deflection off of twigs/leaves etc?
Also, are you going to continue to shoot single bevels or are you going to switch back to fixed blades?


We have seen less deflection yes. Our average shot distance on the handful of bucks we killed was between 15-20 yards. I may keep shooting single bevels or try those Magnus Black Hornets with the heavier bleeder blades. Keep hearing great things about those.

My single bevels this last year worked great but I did not sharpen them enough. That’s something I’ll have to improve should I keep shooting that type of head.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Aaron1987 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:42 am

Redman232 wrote:
Aaron1987 wrote:
EllieTheChubb wrote:
Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:


My local bow guru's take on adult arrows: "how far do you want the arrow to stick in the ground after it goes through the deer?"

The main reason why THP switched to single bevel heavier arrows is because of all the ground hunting they do. For the average stand hunter its just not necessary. That said its fun to play around with your tackle. Am I going to do an arrow overhaul? No. That said anything that gets people thinking about their gear and shooting more is good for the sport.


Actually we switched because of situations that happened from a tree. We’ve seen multiple deflections on broadside shots with light arrows and mechanicals. Obviously this doesn’t happen every time but on 3 separate occasions in the past 4 years arrows have deflected either off the scapula or a rib. We also have seen footage of many similar issues with light setups.

To each their own of course. If it works for you, don’t change. These are just our experiences. All issues came on fully grown mature bucks with heavier bone structure.



This is why I switched, a 120 lbs field dressed doe, is a completely different animal than a 200+ lbs dressed out buck. The weight difference is all muscle mass and bone density. I hunted with a 375-425 gr setup for 15+ years. I never ran into any major issues with does or any of the small bucks I killed (a few slight deflections that i can recall). I arrowed 5 mature bucks in that time frame. 3 died, 2 were not recovered. None were pass throughs. All more or less broadside shots(Slight quartering to angle on a couple). Seems like everyone blasted out of the gate like their hind end was on fire. The last one was a 10 yard shot, slightly quartering to me. I hit the front side shoulder blade, got 8" of penetration and never found any blood after 50 yds. I only picked up my arrow that night and to my knowledge did not jump that deer. I looked for 4 days afterwards and 2 full days that winter. Never found that deer, and I'm not convinced my broadhead ever entered the body cavity. That winter i made the change to a 550 gr setup with 17% FOC. I wish the Ranch Fairy channel was around then, it would have saved me a ton of tinkering.

Since switching, every shot has been a pass through and into the dirt on the other side. 4 of the 5 have mule kicked and trotted 20-40 yds and dropped. I realize this is all anecdotal evidence. Arrow trajectory was not effected much, I still only shoot 2 pins, 30 and 40 yards. If you're running up past 600 gr maybe then it's like throwing an axe, but I haven't seen any downside to the change I made. Generally I feel like all the tinkering with equipment is wasted effort, when a lack of focus on deer behavior, scouting and setups is why most people aren't successful (In my opinion anyways). But this is one that I've personally seen and feel has made a big difference for me.


Your experience is almost identical to ours. Most of us shot fast setups with mechanicals for a long time as well before switching to this.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby EllieTheChubb » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:23 am

Aaron1987 wrote:
Redman232 wrote:
Aaron1987 wrote:
EllieTheChubb wrote:
Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:


My local bow guru's take on adult arrows: "how far do you want the arrow to stick in the ground after it goes through the deer?"

The main reason why THP switched to single bevel heavier arrows is because of all the ground hunting they do. For the average stand hunter its just not necessary. That said its fun to play around with your tackle. Am I going to do an arrow overhaul? No. That said anything that gets people thinking about their gear and shooting more is good for the sport.


Actually we switched because of situations that happened from a tree. We’ve seen multiple deflections on broadside shots with light arrows and mechanicals. Obviously this doesn’t happen every time but on 3 separate occasions in the past 4 years arrows have deflected either off the scapula or a rib. We also have seen footage of many similar issues with light setups.

To each their own of course. If it works for you, don’t change. These are just our experiences. All issues came on fully grown mature bucks with heavier bone structure.



This is why I switched, a 120 lbs field dressed doe, is a completely different animal than a 200+ lbs dressed out buck. The weight difference is all muscle mass and bone density. I hunted with a 375-425 gr setup for 15+ years. I never ran into any major issues with does or any of the small bucks I killed (a few slight deflections that i can recall). I arrowed 5 mature bucks in that time frame. 3 died, 2 were not recovered. None were pass throughs. All more or less broadside shots(Slight quartering to angle on a couple). Seems like everyone blasted out of the gate like their hind end was on fire. The last one was a 10 yard shot, slightly quartering to me. I hit the front side shoulder blade, got 8" of penetration and never found any blood after 50 yds. I only picked up my arrow that night and to my knowledge did not jump that deer. I looked for 4 days afterwards and 2 full days that winter. Never found that deer, and I'm not convinced my broadhead ever entered the body cavity. That winter i made the change to a 550 gr setup with 17% FOC. I wish the Ranch Fairy channel was around then, it would have saved me a ton of tinkering.

Since switching, every shot has been a pass through and into the dirt on the other side. 4 of the 5 have mule kicked and trotted 20-40 yds and dropped. I realize this is all anecdotal evidence. Arrow trajectory was not effected much, I still only shoot 2 pins, 30 and 40 yards. If you're running up past 600 gr maybe then it's like throwing an axe, but I haven't seen any downside to the change I made. Generally I feel like all the tinkering with equipment is wasted effort, when a lack of focus on deer behavior, scouting and setups is why most people aren't successful (In my opinion anyways). But this is one that I've personally seen and feel has made a big difference for me.


Your experience is almost identical to ours. Most of us shot fast setups with mechanicals for a long time as well before switching to this.



So for someone already shooting a mid weight arrow ~500g like me. Do you guys think that is still too light? I dont have much experience on big bucks but have seen some compelling results on does. As an example this fall I shot a young doe on a steep angle and shot through the spine and actually penetrated into the heart with no deflection. I know thats a much softer target compared to a 175#+ buck with denser bone, more fat and muscle but that still seems like a heck of a wollop.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Twenty Up » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:53 am

EllieTheChubb wrote:
Aaron1987 wrote:
Redman232 wrote:
Aaron1987 wrote:
EllieTheChubb wrote:
Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:


My local bow guru's take on adult arrows: "how far do you want the arrow to stick in the ground after it goes through the deer?"

The main reason why THP switched to single bevel heavier arrows is because of all the ground hunting they do. For the average stand hunter its just not necessary. That said its fun to play around with your tackle. Am I going to do an arrow overhaul? No. That said anything that gets people thinking about their gear and shooting more is good for the sport.


Actually we switched because of situations that happened from a tree. We’ve seen multiple deflections on broadside shots with light arrows and mechanicals. Obviously this doesn’t happen every time but on 3 separate occasions in the past 4 years arrows have deflected either off the scapula or a rib. We also have seen footage of many similar issues with light setups.

To each their own of course. If it works for you, don’t change. These are just our experiences. All issues came on fully grown mature bucks with heavier bone structure.



This is why I switched, a 120 lbs field dressed doe, is a completely different animal than a 200+ lbs dressed out buck. The weight difference is all muscle mass and bone density. I hunted with a 375-425 gr setup for 15+ years. I never ran into any major issues with does or any of the small bucks I killed (a few slight deflections that i can recall). I arrowed 5 mature bucks in that time frame. 3 died, 2 were not recovered. None were pass throughs. All more or less broadside shots(Slight quartering to angle on a couple). Seems like everyone blasted out of the gate like their hind end was on fire. The last one was a 10 yard shot, slightly quartering to me. I hit the front side shoulder blade, got 8" of penetration and never found any blood after 50 yds. I only picked up my arrow that night and to my knowledge did not jump that deer. I looked for 4 days afterwards and 2 full days that winter. Never found that deer, and I'm not convinced my broadhead ever entered the body cavity. That winter i made the change to a 550 gr setup with 17% FOC. I wish the Ranch Fairy channel was around then, it would have saved me a ton of tinkering.

Since switching, every shot has been a pass through and into the dirt on the other side. 4 of the 5 have mule kicked and trotted 20-40 yds and dropped. I realize this is all anecdotal evidence. Arrow trajectory was not effected much, I still only shoot 2 pins, 30 and 40 yards. If you're running up past 600 gr maybe then it's like throwing an axe, but I haven't seen any downside to the change I made. Generally I feel like all the tinkering with equipment is wasted effort, when a lack of focus on deer behavior, scouting and setups is why most people aren't successful (In my opinion anyways). But this is one that I've personally seen and feel has made a big difference for me.


Your experience is almost identical to ours. Most of us shot fast setups with mechanicals for a long time as well before switching to this.



So for someone already shooting a mid weight arrow ~500g like me. Do you guys think that is still too light? I dont have much experience on big bucks but have seen some compelling results on does. As an example this fall I shot a young doe on a steep angle and shot through the spine and actually penetrated into the heart with no deflection. I know thats a much softer target compared to a 175#+ buck with denser bone, more fat and muscle but that still seems like a heck of a wollop.


The Ashby Foundation recommends a 400g Minimum with 650 as the bone breaking threshold. But if you’ve had good results with your current setup, why change?

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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:13 am

The_Real_Jmill wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
The_Real_Jmill wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
The_Real_Jmill wrote:I will say all hunters should use whatever hunting setup floats their boat as long as they are proficient and it is legal.

But I do find it intriguing so many are jumping on the wagon to completely overhaul their arrow setups for whitetail. Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.

There is no magic in heavy arrow setups, yes they penetrate better but the hunter still has to do their part making an accurate and ethical shot.



In a perfect world where the animal is perfectly broadside, unobstructed, not moving, doesn't jump the string, etc... Sure. Heavy, high FoC arrows really aren't going to help in perfect situations like that. They're for situations like quartering to shots, or partially obstructed shots where the only angle at both lungs is through the shoulder, or for when we make a mistake and hit "a little too far forward". When everything goes absolutely perfect, even a light arrow with a field point will kill a deer. But that's not what we're discussing.


You say perfect and I would say ethical.

I don't take quartering too shots or shots where deer are moving or vitals are obstructed and I don't think anyone should regardless of setup, but to each their own. I've only ever taken broadside and quartering away and all within 25 yards, this is what I was taught and it has served me well in my 15+ years of bow hunting.

If altering equipment is to make up for poor decision making/shot attempts then it is being done for the wrong reason.

Accidents happen but a low percentage shot is a low percentage shot.

No magic in this game, just smart well placed shots.


If you only take "ethical" shots at animals at close range presenting wide-open unobstructed broadside shots while never moving, you must not have killed many deer in that 15 years of hunting. Regardless of what one person considers "ethical" or not, in the real world ____ happens as they say. As Dr. Ashby's roughly 30 years of study have scientifically shown, when it does happen and you hit that bone, you want that weight and you want it up front.

Physics don't lie son...


So were at the point in the discussion where you have to talk down to me and question my hunting success??

FWIW I've killed 40+ in those 15 years, all of which (including the two bucks in my avatar shot 30 min apart on a heavily hunted piece of public land) gave me "perfect" broadside/quartering away unobstructed shots.

I've had to let plenty of deer walk, but I owe it to the animal not to take a low percentage shot.

I still stand by what I said take high percentage ethical shots and it really doesn't matter with the right equipment setup, take poor low percentage shots and expect poor results.


Whoa... Take it easy fella. I never insulted you. I just pointed out how what you said {the actual words you used} doesn't line up with the real world 99% of the time. If you take insult from that - that's on you. Be clearer on more precisely with your statements. As far as descending the conversation to insults, I think the first {and in my estimation only} shot fired was when you were questioning the "ethical" methods of those who simply have a differing opinion from you. I would suggest that you take a moment to go back and re-read what you've been writing and try to envision yourself on the receiving end of that.
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ThePreBanMan
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:18 am

Dan T wrote:No doubt the "ranch fairy" has done his homework and has a lot to offer. But I can't swallow the talking down and dumbing down to his audience who doesn't do exactly %100 of how he does it. He mentions and forgets that his audience has just as much right to a learning curve as he did. He mentions his learning curve, but has no patience for anyone in the same learning curve he experienced. If your not doing what he does, or come up with the same questions he did, you are stupid and probably have a southern accent. That leads me to my next ranch fairy issue...are all southern accented people stupid? or does he just get stupid questions only from southern accents? He has done his work no doubt, but he has some delivery issues. I get it, your right, but everyone else isn't stupid with a southern accent just because we are not there yet or have the means to test multiple arrrow/head combinations on our salary. stop acting like the rest of us beyond your means are stupid with southern accents.



You know he's from TX, right? Pretty sure that's still considered the south. I've consumed a lot of his content and I have yet to see him take a derogatory tone of make condescending comments that were social, economic, class or racially based. In fact such comments violate YouTube's terms of service and would promptly get his content demonetized if not outright kicked off the platform.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby The_Real_Jmill » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:52 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:
The_Real_Jmill wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
The_Real_Jmill wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:
The_Real_Jmill wrote:I will say all hunters should use whatever hunting setup floats their boat as long as they are proficient and it is legal.

But I do find it intriguing so many are jumping on the wagon to completely overhaul their arrow setups for whitetail. Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.

There is no magic in heavy arrow setups, yes they penetrate better but the hunter still has to do their part making an accurate and ethical shot.



In a perfect world where the animal is perfectly broadside, unobstructed, not moving, doesn't jump the string, etc... Sure. Heavy, high FoC arrows really aren't going to help in perfect situations like that. They're for situations like quartering to shots, or partially obstructed shots where the only angle at both lungs is through the shoulder, or for when we make a mistake and hit "a little too far forward". When everything goes absolutely perfect, even a light arrow with a field point will kill a deer. But that's not what we're discussing.


You say perfect and I would say ethical.

I don't take quartering too shots or shots where deer are moving or vitals are obstructed and I don't think anyone should regardless of setup, but to each their own. I've only ever taken broadside and quartering away and all within 25 yards, this is what I was taught and it has served me well in my 15+ years of bow hunting.

If altering equipment is to make up for poor decision making/shot attempts then it is being done for the wrong reason.

Accidents happen but a low percentage shot is a low percentage shot.

No magic in this game, just smart well placed shots.


If you only take "ethical" shots at animals at close range presenting wide-open unobstructed broadside shots while never moving, you must not have killed many deer in that 15 years of hunting. Regardless of what one person considers "ethical" or not, in the real world ____ happens as they say. As Dr. Ashby's roughly 30 years of study have scientifically shown, when it does happen and you hit that bone, you want that weight and you want it up front.

Physics don't lie son...


So were at the point in the discussion where you have to talk down to me and question my hunting success??

FWIW I've killed 40+ in those 15 years, all of which (including the two bucks in my avatar shot 30 min apart on a heavily hunted piece of public land) gave me "perfect" broadside/quartering away unobstructed shots.

I've had to let plenty of deer walk, but I owe it to the animal not to take a low percentage shot.

I still stand by what I said take high percentage ethical shots and it really doesn't matter with the right equipment setup, take poor low percentage shots and expect poor results.


Whoa... Take it easy fella. I never insulted you. I just pointed out how what you said {the actual words you used} doesn't line up with the real world 99% of the time. If you take insult from that - that's on you. Be clearer on more precisely with your statements. As far as descending the conversation to insults, I think the first {and in my estimation only} shot fired was when you were questioning the "ethical" methods of those who simply have a differing opinion from you. I would suggest that you take a moment to go back and re-read what you've been writing and try to envision yourself on the receiving end of that.


I never said you insulted me and I'm not insulted easily so no worries. I said you were talking down to me and questioning my hunting success.

What I am saying does line up with the real world 99% of the time (atleast my world). I do not take shots on quartering too deer, animals that are moving or shots were vitals are obstructed and I would never advise one to take those shots no matter what setup they have as they are very low percentage shots. I only take Broadside and quartering away shot and it has served me well, but you took a jab stating I must not have shot a lot of deer?? I never in this thread had to question how many deer you have harvested.

You said "perfect" and I stated I would consider those "ethical" but I never called you unethical. You can take whatever shot on a deer you feel comfortable within your abilities.

My stance remains unchanged. There is a very low percentage of a whitetails vitals actually blocked by (scapula, humerus and socket) so I think the overhaul to shoot these ultra heavy FOC setups is unnecessary and may cause more problems with tuning since I question how many people actually take the time to do it properly or know how. There is no magic bullet and I don't want most to be misled that you can now intentionally target the front shoulder with these heavy setups, you still have to take good shots.

Most will be served well with any moderate 450-550 grain arrow with 10-15% foc. for whitetail.

For reference I know a gal that harvested a whitetail doe with 38# bow and an arrow of 381 grains running a 100gr. montec and approx. 10% foc. with a pass through.

Shot placement is key.
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby mauser06 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:29 am

Boy! The off season is hitting the huntingbeast forum fast and hard!




At the end of the day, shoot what works for YOU!
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Re: Ranch Ferry.

Unread postby Huntress13 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:38 am

EllieTheChubb wrote:
Aaron1987 wrote:
Redman232 wrote:
Aaron1987 wrote:
EllieTheChubb wrote:
Dewey wrote:You guys are WAY overthinking this stuff. :lol:


My local bow guru's take on adult arrows: "how far do you want the arrow to stick in the ground after it goes through the deer?"

The main reason why THP switched to single bevel heavier arrows is because of all the ground hunting they do. For the average stand hunter its just not necessary. That said its fun to play around with your tackle. Am I going to do an arrow overhaul? No. That said anything that gets people thinking about their gear and shooting more is good for the sport.


Actually we switched because of situations that happened from a tree. We’ve seen multiple deflections on broadside shots with light arrows and mechanicals. Obviously this doesn’t happen every time but on 3 separate occasions in the past 4 years arrows have deflected either off the scapula or a rib. We also have seen footage of many similar issues with light setups.

To each their own of course. If it works for you, don’t change. These are just our experiences. All issues came on fully grown mature bucks with heavier bone structure.



This is why I switched, a 120 lbs field dressed doe, is a completely different animal than a 200+ lbs dressed out buck. The weight difference is all muscle mass and bone density. I hunted with a 375-425 gr setup for 15+ years. I never ran into any major issues with does or any of the small bucks I killed (a few slight deflections that i can recall). I arrowed 5 mature bucks in that time frame. 3 died, 2 were not recovered. None were pass throughs. All more or less broadside shots(Slight quartering to angle on a couple). Seems like everyone blasted out of the gate like their hind end was on fire. The last one was a 10 yard shot, slightly quartering to me. I hit the front side shoulder blade, got 8" of penetration and never found any blood after 50 yds. I only picked up my arrow that night and to my knowledge did not jump that deer. I looked for 4 days afterwards and 2 full days that winter. Never found that deer, and I'm not convinced my broadhead ever entered the body cavity. That winter i made the change to a 550 gr setup with 17% FOC. I wish the Ranch Fairy channel was around then, it would have saved me a ton of tinkering.

Since switching, every shot has been a pass through and into the dirt on the other side. 4 of the 5 have mule kicked and trotted 20-40 yds and dropped. I realize this is all anecdotal evidence. Arrow trajectory was not effected much, I still only shoot 2 pins, 30 and 40 yards. If you're running up past 600 gr maybe then it's like throwing an axe, but I haven't seen any downside to the change I made. Generally I feel like all the tinkering with equipment is wasted effort, when a lack of focus on deer behavior, scouting and setups is why most people aren't successful (In my opinion anyways). But this is one that I've personally seen and feel has made a big difference for me.


Your experience is almost identical to ours. Most of us shot fast setups with mechanicals for a long time as well before switching to this.



So for someone already shooting a mid weight arrow ~500g like me. Do you guys think that is still too light? I dont have much experience on big bucks but have seen some compelling results on does. As an example this fall I shot a young doe on a steep angle and shot through the spine and actually penetrated into the heart with no deflection. I know thats a much softer target compared to a 175#+ buck with denser bone, more fat and muscle but that still seems like a heck of a wollop.


I really think it depends on all of your specs. Somebody with a 26" draw is going to be a lot different than somebody with a 30" draw. And somebody pulling 70 lb is going to be different than somebody shooting 50 lb. So you have to factor in more than just arrow weight. I'm shooting 25" draw at 50 lbs, so a 650 grain arrow would not be practical because the arrow speed would be about 150 fps and about 32 foot pounds momentum. A 500 grain arrow gives me about 200 fps and 42 foot pounds momentum. I can tell you from experience when I was shooting a lighter arrow, 32 foot pounds is only enough to get the job done with perfect shot placement on a larger size deer. So, all that to say, you need to look at your setup and figure out what your acceptable speed and momentum is going to be. You can get a general estimate by looking at "grains per pound" instead of simply by arrow weight. 10 grains per pound of draw weight is a "middle of the road" arrow for traditional archers, and would be considered heavy for modern carbon compound shooters.
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