ThePreBanMan wrote:The_Real_Jmill wrote:ThePreBanMan wrote:The_Real_Jmill wrote:ThePreBanMan wrote:The_Real_Jmill wrote:I will say all hunters should use whatever hunting setup floats their boat as long as they are proficient and it is legal.
But I do find it intriguing so many are jumping on the wagon to completely overhaul their arrow setups for whitetail. Maybe somebody is better versed than me in deer anatomy but do we actually know what percentage of a whitetails vitals are covered by the socket/humerus/scapula? Looking online leads me to believe it is a very small percentage, so while some may find a benefit in penetration I think most will be let down by the results of this complete overhaul in equipment, dead is dead as long as the shot is where it should be.
There is no magic in heavy arrow setups, yes they penetrate better but the hunter still has to do their part making an accurate and ethical shot.
In a perfect world where the animal is perfectly broadside, unobstructed, not moving, doesn't jump the string, etc... Sure. Heavy, high FoC arrows really aren't going to help in perfect situations like that. They're for situations like quartering to shots, or partially obstructed shots where the only angle at both lungs is through the shoulder, or for when we make a mistake and hit "a little too far forward". When everything goes absolutely perfect, even a light arrow with a field point will kill a deer. But that's not what we're discussing.
You say perfect and I would say ethical.
I don't take quartering too shots or shots where deer are moving or vitals are obstructed and I don't think anyone should regardless of setup, but to each their own. I've only ever taken broadside and quartering away and all within 25 yards, this is what I was taught and it has served me well in my 15+ years of bow hunting.
If altering equipment is to make up for poor decision making/shot attempts then it is being done for the wrong reason.
Accidents happen but a low percentage shot is a low percentage shot.
No magic in this game, just smart well placed shots.
If you only take "ethical" shots at animals at close range presenting wide-open unobstructed broadside shots while never moving, you must not have killed many deer in that 15 years of hunting. Regardless of what one person considers "ethical" or not, in the real world ____ happens as they say. As Dr. Ashby's roughly 30 years of study have scientifically shown, when it does happen and you hit that bone, you want that weight and you want it up front.
Physics don't lie son...
So were at the point in the discussion where you have to talk down to me and question my hunting success??
FWIW I've killed 40+ in those 15 years, all of which (including the two bucks in my avatar shot 30 min apart on a heavily hunted piece of public land) gave me "perfect" broadside/quartering away unobstructed shots.
I've had to let plenty of deer walk, but I owe it to the animal not to take a low percentage shot.
I still stand by what I said take high percentage ethical shots and it really doesn't matter with the right equipment setup, take poor low percentage shots and expect poor results.
Whoa... Take it easy fella. I never insulted you. I just pointed out how what you said {the actual words you used} doesn't line up with the real world 99% of the time. If you take insult from that - that's on you. Be clearer on more precisely with your statements. As far as descending the conversation to insults, I think the first {and in my estimation only} shot fired was when you were questioning the "ethical" methods of those who simply have a differing opinion from you. I would suggest that you take a moment to go back and re-read what you've been writing and try to envision yourself on the receiving end of that.
I never said you insulted me and I'm not insulted easily so no worries. I said you were talking down to me and questioning my hunting success.
What I am saying does line up with the real world 99% of the time (atleast my world). I do not take shots on quartering too deer, animals that are moving or shots were vitals are obstructed and I would never advise one to take those shots no matter what setup they have as they are very low percentage shots. I only take Broadside and quartering away shot and it has served me well, but you took a jab stating I must not have shot a lot of deer?? I never in this thread had to question how many deer you have harvested.
You said "perfect" and I stated I would consider those "ethical" but I never called you unethical. You can take whatever shot on a deer you feel comfortable within your abilities.
My stance remains unchanged. There is a very low percentage of a whitetails vitals actually blocked by (scapula, humerus and socket) so I think the overhaul to shoot these ultra heavy FOC setups is unnecessary and may cause more problems with tuning since I question how many people actually take the time to do it properly or know how. There is no magic bullet and I don't want most to be misled that you can now intentionally target the front shoulder with these heavy setups, you still have to take good shots.
Most will be served well with any moderate 450-550 grain arrow with 10-15% foc. for whitetail.
For reference I know a gal that harvested a whitetail doe with 38# bow and an arrow of 381 grains running a 100gr. montec and approx. 10% foc. with a pass through.
Shot placement is key.