CWD

[Jonny]

Show me a deer that has died from cwd and maybe I’ll take it serious. All I ever see are deer that die from cars or hunters and happen to test positive for cwd. Even if a deer does contract cwd and start to get sick, I’ll put $20 on the top predators in the woods picking it off as the food chain works before getting concerned. And if you see a sickly deer and are concerned, don’t shoot it. Maybe it has cwd, maybe it has ehd, maybe it has some combination of diseases that caused it to get sick. Look for only one disease and you will find it. Doesn’t mean it is any more harmful to a deer than a flu is to us.

People all over live with horrible diseases that do kill people. We don’t try to kill off the disease by killing them. We look for ways to live with the fact that the disease exists and either try to get everybody immune to it through vaccination or reducing causes of it.

Guess what, you can’t vaccinate millions of deer. Look at what’s happening now when the select few don’t vaccinate their kids. Flu cases go up by 9000% and the measles come back from the grave. And you can’t stop farming so deer will always eat at the same choke and puke.

CWD has been around since they started looking for it, and will be here as long as they continue to waste money testing for it. Accept the fact it’s here to stay, let the bears, wolves, coyotes pick off the sick and weak, and quit shooting healthy animals to pretend something is being done.

[trapper57]

Show me a deer that has died from cwd and maybe I’ll take it serious. All I ever see are deer that die from cars or hunters and happen to test positive for cwd. Even if a deer does contract cwd and start to get sick, I’ll put $20 on the top predators in the woods picking it off as the food chain works before getting concerned. And if you see a sickly deer and are concerned, don’t shoot it. Maybe it has cwd, maybe it has ehd, maybe it has some combination of diseases that caused it to get sick. Look for only one disease and you will find it. Doesn’t mean it is any more harmful to a deer than a flu is to us.

People all over live with horrible diseases that do kill people. We don’t try to kill off the disease by killing them. We look for ways to live with the fact that the disease exists and either try to get everybody immune to it through vaccination or reducing causes of it.

Guess what, you can’t vaccinate millions of deer. Look at what’s happening now when the select few don’t vaccinate their kids. Flu cases go up by 9000% and the measles come back from the grave. And you can’t stop farming so deer will always eat at the same choke and puke.

CWD has been around since they started looking for it, and will be here as long as they continue to waste money testing for it. Accept the fact it’s here to stay, let the bears, wolves, coyotes pick off the sick and weak, and quit shooting healthy animals to pretend something is being done.

Right on!
I couldn’t agree more

[tim]

Propaganda makes it sound like there is some other element at work in the story. The deer aren't thriving in Wyoming where I hunt. The population has been down every year in recent years. The deer my brother in law shot last year had it and his friend's deer had it the previous year. We're looking for new areas to hunt.

If you read articles there is a lot of propaganda out there that is not at all supported by science. I’m not doubting your population is down and can’t speak for your situation but here in WI our deer herd has had much more damage done to it due to CWD regulations since 2001 than the disease ever would have done itself. The kill em all mentality has not worked well for us.

Amen to this, the Dnr devastated Wisconsin’s deer heard by attempting to eradicate . The funny thing is , after it started I questioned what they would do when the found it near buffalo county where all the hunting operations were. Well they did find it nearby and lo and behold they get mr. expert to then say the Dnr was going about it wrong . Thank god but on the other hand I sure found it funny that buffalo county didn’t end up in the eradication zone . Hmmmmmmm

[Jonny]

Propaganda makes it sound like there is some other element at work in the story. The deer aren't thriving in Wyoming where I hunt. The population has been down every year in recent years. The deer my brother in law shot last year had it and his friend's deer had it the previous year. We're looking for new areas to hunt.

If you read articles there is a lot of propaganda out there that is not at all supported by science. I’m not doubting your population is down and can’t speak for your situation but here in WI our deer herd has had much more damage done to it due to CWD regulations since 2001 than the disease ever would have done itself. The kill em all mentality has not worked well for us.

Amen to this, the Dnr devastated Wisconsin’s deer heard by attempting to eradicate . The funny thing is , after it started I questioned what they would do when the found it near buffalo county where all the hunting operations were. Well they did find it nearby and lo and behold they get mr. expert to then say the Dnr was going about it wrong . Thank god but on the other hand I sure found it funny that buffalo county didn’t end up in the eradication zone . Hmmmmmmm

The plus side for buffalo county is there isn’t enough public to make a difference. Guys out there have had ample doe tags for as long as I can remember and still have a great population. They just don’t fill all their tags.

An area like Clark or Jackson county that’s half public forest or any of the northern counties, give out doe tags and watch them flock. I could tell you how many doe tags are given out by me based on how many vehicles I see opening weekend. When we cut doe tags I stopped seeing hunters. Now that tags are up I see more people on the forest roads. Nothing like the 90’s and 2000’s but more than when I first started in 2014. More tags is more hunters since they can shoot anything that walks instead of checking for horns or nuts. Add in higher predator numbers and 2 decades of bad forestry practices and suddenly you will have way less deer. My area fixed the forestry part but I still see more bears, bobcats, coyotes and wolf sign than I do deer.

All CWD has done is increase doe kills and reduce the population. Luckily for some counties there is enough private so they can manage the deer for their own interests, whether or not you agree with it is another question. Waupaca county is another. Too much private to hurt the endless tag strategy.

[EllieTheChubb]

Few things I noticed reading through this.

Saw one guy calling it a virus then expounding two paragraphs of opinions on the subject. this tells me me you havent put an ounce of research into the subject.

Second it seems like everyone admits they dont participate with the states efforts then say the states efforts dont work.

Third thing is that everyone thinks the state biologists have this great national conspiracy to eliminate wildlife. Lets be real guys. Biologists dont pay for 4 years of college then bounce around low paying seasonal research work to eventually get reliable government employment if they didnt love what they were doing. Biologists are outdoorsmen, hunters, fishermen, hikers you name it.

I am not trying to single anyone out individually it just seems like as a whole theres alot of fake news dominating this subject. I'm also not saying that you need to be an expert to have an opinion but you should be able to back up what you say with some facts. We shouldnt be dictating policy by feelings and hearsay.

[elk yinzer]

^ solid post. This CWD crap is truly depressing now that its knocking on my back door. I really don't think there are any easy solutions, it just sucks. At the very best it may take generations to sort out. The worst case scenario in my mind is really really bad.

[lyndon57]

I can understand the frustration from some of the Wisconsin posters.

I remember the dark years of having " Deer Eradication Zones (DEZ) ", that by 2004
encompassed 8 counties! Not reduction....eradication. I do not need a 4,6 or
8yr degree to tell me how that was going to end.

I cant speak state wide, but it certainly set back the level of cooperation & trust
between State & hunter in the DEZ.

I dont envy the wildlife biologists. If you dont have the stakeholders on board,
the plan will only look great on paper.

[MrT]

Few things I noticed reading through this.

Saw one guy calling it a virus then expounding two paragraphs of opinions on the subject. this tells me me you havent put an ounce of research into the subject.

Second it seems like everyone admits they dont participate with the states efforts then say the states efforts dont work.

Third thing is that everyone thinks the state biologists have this great national conspiracy to eliminate wildlife. Lets be real guys. Biologists dont pay for 4 years of college then bounce around low paying seasonal research work to eventually get reliable government employment if they didnt love what they were doing. Biologists are outdoorsmen, hunters, fishermen, hikers you name it.

I am not trying to single anyone out individually it just seems like as a whole theres alot of fake news dominating this subject. I'm also not saying that you need to be an expert to have an opinion but you should be able to back up what you say with some facts. We shouldnt be dictating policy by feelings and hearsay.

The fact is it's not that prevalent. And it's been there for as long as people have looked for it. People have been eating CWD deer for no one actually knows how long because it is sure to have existed before they first found it in what, 1967? Maybe I have that date wrong, but it was sometime in the 60s and we haven't seen any zombies walking around.

I agree with you that the wildlife biologists are passionate about what they do and the ones I've talked to have all shown that passion and are all very down to earth people. But just like all people they have their bias too. Maybe the start of this hysteria was from a handful of biased biologists, who knows. But what we do know is that after millions and millions of dollars being spent, the SCIENTIFIC results show that... it's not that prevalent. And efforts taken to help stop the spread of it either appear to be counterproductive for the wildlife or just simply don't work.

I think everyone can agree that it's there, can't deny that. I believe because so it should be studied. But are we spending too much money on it? Are we blowing it out of proportion and making ridiculous regulation changes and in some places taking counter measures which are actually harmful to the wildlife, the hunting community, and inadvertently driving people away from deer hunting in fear of contracting cwd, which despite scientific studies showing squirrel monkies contracting CWD the same said studies ultimately said it is highly unlikely that a human could contract CWD let alone be affected by it???

I'm not trying to perpetuate any conspiracy theories on the subject to whatever hidden objective there is behind the CWD hysteria. But my stance is that biologists and other representatives pushing this is scaring people, scared people make poor decisions in regards to regulations and how to handle the situation, and a lot more harm is being caused than actual CWD itself.

[Tennhunter3]

I live in a cwd zone and I know that our deer population is gone. I have to drive near 2 hours too hunt. So yes this is a subject that really hits home.

Our county and surrounding counties wildlife is at the lowest population in many years.

Deer genocide didn't work in Wisconsin yet states keep doing what doesn't work.

[crankn101]

I live in a cwd zone and I know that our deer population is gone. I have to drive near 2 hours too hunt. So yes this is a subject that really hits home.

Our county and surrounding counties wildlife is at the lowest population in many years.

Deer genocide didn't work in Wisconsin yet states keep doing what doesn't work.

Are you saying the populations are low due to govt intervening?

[Tennhunter3]

I live in a cwd zone and I know that our deer population is gone. I have to drive near 2 hours too hunt. So yes this is a subject that really hits home.

Our county and surrounding counties wildlife is at the lowest population in many years.

Deer genocide didn't work in Wisconsin yet states keep doing what doesn't work.

Are you saying the populations are low due to govt intervening?

I think its several factors tbh.
We have had very liberal open doe harvest . The last 2 years our harvest has been lowest in 30 plus years. Due to the increased harvest from 2014 -2017

The amount of does is so much lower so fewer deer are alive to birth fawns.

Then add in cwd and open harvest to try to go after the already low populations.

Our state has no decent regulations on coyote seasons on wildlife management areas so the predator population has increased. It says open to available firearms but obviously we cant kill many coyotes wearing hunter orange or with 8 shot squirrel loads. Unless starvation or desiese occurs our predators population will keep growing. Our very short turkey season is the only time to reduce the predator population.

In a way government -state biologist are to blaim for poor regulations the last several years. I don't think those who make regulations spend enough time on public lands to recognize what is really happening.

All this combined has just devastated our herd.

Cwd sure isn't helping I do think others are right that liberal harvest is doing way more damage then cwd itself. This also was what Wisconsin did and now their predator numbers are growing also so multiple states are seeing this happen.

[crankn101]

I live in a cwd zone and I know that our deer population is gone. I have to drive near 2 hours too hunt. So yes this is a subject that really hits home.

Our county and surrounding counties wildlife is at the lowest population in many years.

Deer genocide didn't work in Wisconsin yet states keep doing what doesn't work.

Are you saying the populations are low due to govt intervening?

I think its several factors tbh.
We have had very liberal open doe harvest . The last 2 years our harvest has been lowest in 30 plus years. Due to the increased harvest from 2014 -2017

The amount of does is so much lower so fewer deer are alive to birth fawns.

Then add in cwd and open harvest to try to go after the already low populations.

Our state has no decent regulations on coyote seasons on wildlife management areas so the predator population has increased. It says open to available firearms but obviously we cant kill many coyotes wearing hunter orange or with 8 shot squirrel loads. Unless starvation or desiese occurs our predators population will keep growing. Our very short turkey season is the only time to reduce the predator population.

In a way government -state biologist are to blaim for poor regulations the last several years. I don't think those who make regulations spend enough time on public lands to recognize what is really happening.

All this combined has just devastated our herd.

Cwd sure isn't helping I do think others are right that liberal harvest is doing way more damage then cwd itself. This also was what Wisconsin did and now their predator numbers are growing also so multiple states are seeing this happen.

I agree.
Born and raised about 15 miles from some of if not the first animals found to have CWD in Colo and we never see any dead animals out of the ordinary but the DOW completely wiped out the whitetails in the area and did a good number on the elk as well. On the other hand I hunt SD,NB and KS from time to time and when EHD hits its devastating and dead animals liter the ground.

[Groundpounder]

Sorry your feelings are hurt tennhunter3, I could have worded it differently, however, I stand by the content of my post.

I do NOT find it strange that cwd has popped up and is difficult or impossible to slow down/eliminate. I don't find it strange because I understand(on a basic level) the science involving the method of transfer and prion-cell interaction.

Cwd is not a virus. A virus generally speaking is an order of magnitude larger than a prion(protein). A virus as an organism exists to replicate. It infects a cell, bursts, releasing (usually)rna inside the cell. The cell replicates the rna thus producing more viruses, the cell eventually dies or bursts and releases all of the newly created virus bodies and the cycle continues.

A prion is essentially a misfolded protein. These proteins interact with the cell in detrimental ways. For scale consider this. Proteins come in different sizes, are made up of various types and numbers of molecules, and are involved in nearly all cell life functions, from atp production to dna and rna replication. Proteins and prions are smaller than cell organelles. We are talking about a cluster of molecules. Because of the size alone, prions are tougher to combat than viruses. Now take into consideration the ability of the prion to "survive" things like high heat, not to mention things like plant uptake and transfer. It is no wonder that the dnr have no real way to deal with the issue and no wonder it's transmission rate and difficulty fighting.

The only way that I have seen protein folding corrected is through a specialized vesicle, and this is a large protein we are talking about. Misfolded protein goes into the vesicle, add catalyst and time, out pops a correctly folded and useable protein. Some species (octopuses and squid for example) are able to create vesicles that do this as well as rapidly alter their rna. This is one way they are able to change color/texture rapidly. To my limited knowledge deer nor humans have this ability naturally nor artificially, at least not outside of a lab environment. At this point, all of this equates to dealing with the prion on an organism level instead of a cellular or molecular level, aka kill the deer because they can't kill the prion itself.

This is a scientific issue and should be viewed as such. There is research out there that is repeatable and observable on this topic, that's what the scientific method is all about. Scientic evidence doesn't support the theory that these prions are man made, or that cwd has come from a private or governmental vector.

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want, but chalking cwd up to a government conspiracy and making a companion comment linking it to aids!? How is that rational or supported by any type of fact or reliable evidence? Furthermore how is it a bad thing to point this out? There is nothing wrong with challenging ideas and norms. I am open to being totally and absolutely proven wrong, often this is how conceptual breakthroughs are realized and how perceptions are changed.

Hunters tend to be a group that need first hand experience and observable evidence to cement ideas. This is why each of us hunt the way we do-because it brings results for us. To say that cwd is not out there or that you don't think it's serious and ignoring scientific observation is analogous to saying that you don't believe Eastern Asia exists because you haven't seen it with your own eyes, that the Earth is flat because you can't easily observe the curature of the earth with your eye, or that nuclear weapons aren't dangerous because you haven't seen a mushroom cloud... Again, believe what you want but there are GOOD reasons to believe the scientific research that has been done.

The group of men and women that are on this site are uniquely able to critically break down the habits, behavior, and biology of an animal, take field samples(trail cams, sit observation, etc...), then use that info to analyze and pattern the animal well enough to successfully overcome that animal's biological advantages. The ability to critically think and analyze deer, but lack of critical reasoning on some other topics is baffling to me. There seems to be a drop off between critically thinking about how to kill deer and other world, political, and social problems that are discussed on here. I would expect more people on here to ask "why" "how" regarding more than just killing deer.


Jonny, yes, the science does show that it is more serious than the flu. Claiming that cwd isn't serious is a little silly. It is a fatal disease, Has been proven so, etc.. etc... I understand your frustrations with how it has been managed and agree that there has been a poor effort made in many circumstances. My guess as to why is not conspiracy however, nor is it that cwd isn't real or serious. My guess as to the poor cwd management is due to chain of command, funding issues, lack of treatment options, and a fear of losing public and private conservation money. If you have ever dealt with or been a part of management in a large corporation you probably know that there is usually a major difference between what NEEDS to be done, what CAN be done, and what actually GETS done....again, these are complex issues spanning many thousands of people, government organizations and all in public view. Must make a single vision or plan difficult if not impossible.

Dewey, tennhunter3, I apologise. I do not want to attack anyone. I have no beef with anyone on this site but I do have an issue with people stating nonsense as if it were truth and watching others pile on. We need to be conscious of what ideas we give legs because frightening people with ideas not based in fact not only gives hunters a bad connotation, it prohibits us from taking part in a real solution. Your words have power. None of us would be on here if we weren't interested in learning and gleaning knowledge from others. People look to your words for direction, don't send them on a goose chase please.

[Carpkiller02]

Has a “healthy” deer herd (a herd located no where near established cwd zones) ever been extensively tested for cwd on the level we test in the zones? I’d be curious if it’s a naturally occurring disease across the entire whitetail population.

[Tennhunter3]

Sorry your feelings are hurt tennhunter3, I could have worded it differently, however, I stand by the content of my post.

I do NOT find it strange that cwd has popped up and is difficult or impossible to slow down/eliminate. I don't find it strange because I understand(on a basic level) the science involving the method of transfer and prion-cell interaction.

Cwd is not a virus. A virus generally speaking is an order of magnitude larger than a prion(protein). A virus as an organism exists to replicate. It infects a cell, bursts, releasing (usually)rna inside the cell. The cell replicates the rna thus producing more viruses, the cell eventually dies or bursts and releases all of the newly created virus bodies and the cycle continues.

A prion is essentially a misfolded protein. These proteins interact with the cell in detrimental ways. For scale consider this. Proteins come in different sizes, are made up of various types and numbers of molecules, and are involved in nearly all cell life functions, from atp production to dna and rna replication. Proteins and prions are smaller than cell organelles. We are talking about a cluster of molecules. Because of the size alone, prions are tougher to combat than viruses. Now take into consideration the ability of the prion to "survive" things like high heat, not to mention things like plant uptake and transfer. It is no wonder that the dnr have no real way to deal with the issue and no wonder it's transmission rate and difficulty fighting.

The only way that I have seen protein folding corrected is through a specialized vesicle, and this is a large protein we are talking about. Misfolded protein goes into the vesicle, add catalyst and time, out pops a correctly folded and useable protein. Some species (octopuses and squid for example) are able to create vesicles that do this as well as rapidly alter their rna. This is one way they are able to change color/texture rapidly. To my limited knowledge deer nor humans have this ability naturally nor artificially, at least not outside of a lab environment. At this point, all of this equates to dealing with the prion on an organism level instead of a cellular or molecular level, aka kill the deer because they can't kill the prion itself.

This is a scientific issue and should be viewed as such. There is research out there that is repeatable and observable on this topic, that's what the scientific method is all about. Scientic evidence doesn't support the theory that these prions are man made, or that cwd has come from a private or governmental vector.

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want, but chalking cwd up to a government conspiracy and making a companion comment linking it to aids!? How is that rational or supported by any type of fact or reliable evidence? Furthermore how is it a bad thing to point this out? There is nothing wrong with challenging ideas and norms. I am open to being totally and absolutely proven wrong, often this is how conceptual breakthroughs are realized and how perceptions are changed.

Hunters tend to be a group that need first hand experience and observable evidence to cement ideas. This is why each of us hunt the way we do-because it brings results for us. To say that cwd is not out there or that you don't think it's serious and ignoring scientific observation is analogous to saying that you don't believe Eastern Asia exists because you haven't seen it with your own eyes, that the Earth is flat because you can't easily observe the curature of the earth with your eye, or that nuclear weapons aren't dangerous because you haven't seen a mushroom cloud... Again, believe what you want but there are GOOD reasons to believe the scientific research that has been done.

The group of men and women that are on this site are uniquely able to critically break down the habits, behavior, and biology of an animal, take field samples(trail cams, sit observation, etc...), then use that info to analyze and pattern the animal well enough to successfully overcome that animal's biological advantages. The ability to critically think and analyze deer, but lack of critical reasoning on some other topics is baffling to me. There seems to be a drop off between critically thinking about how to kill deer and other world, political, and social problems that are discussed on here. I would expect more people on here to ask "why" "how" regarding more than just killing deer.


Jonny, yes, the science does show that it is more serious than the flu. Claiming that cwd isn't serious is a little silly. It is a fatal disease, Has been proven so, etc.. etc... I understand your frustrations with how it has been managed and agree that there has been a poor effort made in many circumstances. My guess as to why is not conspiracy however, nor is it that cwd isn't real or serious. My guess as to the poor cwd management is due to chain of command, funding issues, lack of treatment options, and a fear of losing public and private conservation money. If you have ever dealt with or been a part of management in a large corporation you probably know that there is usually a major difference between what NEEDS to be done, what CAN be done, and what actually GETS done....again, these are complex issues spanning many thousands of people, government organizations and all in public view. Must make a single vision or plan difficult if not impossible.

Dewey, tennhunter3, I apologise. I do not want to attack anyone. I have no beef with anyone on this site but I do have an issue with people stating nonsense as if it were truth and watching others pile on. We need to be conscious of what ideas we give legs because frightening people with ideas not based in fact not only gives hunters a bad connotation, it prohibits us from taking part in a real solution. Your words have power. None of us would be on here if we weren't interested in learning and gleaning knowledge from others. People look to your words for direction, don't send them on a goose chase please.