A different animal...

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tuff4x4
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A different animal...

Unread postby tuff4x4 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:17 am

I have heard and read that mature bucks are a different animal, in their own class you can say. I believe this and although I do not have alot of mature buck kills under my belt I have seen some mature bucks do things that I have not seen other deer do.

I will share some experiences and would like to hear from others about some of their experiences. Please feel free to poke holes in my thoughts as well. I am here to learn and would like to see a thread on such subject.

Mature bucks do not like to travel well use trails, the wore to the dirt cow paths is not where I have seen mature bucks. I have seen them go down a main trail after a doe during the rut but in general I have not seen them normally travel the path in daylight. Instead I find them off the main trails maybe 30-40 yards and paralleling them from time to time. I have heard and seen where a mature buck will travel 30-40 yards along the main trail but always seems to be it a bit more cover.

Mature bucks almost always seem to travel in cover during daylight. Everytime I have seen a mature buck he has been walking where it is just a little thicker then everywhere else.

Mature bucks like to enter open fields in low spots in the evenings so they can scent check the field before entering. How about when they leave an open field? Do they leave in a low spot the majority of the time? I have also watched mature bucks walk along the side of a hill that over looks CRP so they can in my opinion look down in the CRP before they enter it and where the bucks entered the CRP field was also in a low spot.

Mature bucks seem to use primary bedding in spots where I find no evidence of other deer (young bucks and does). Several times I have found beds that were there in my mind just to watch me. I know this has been discussed before and I have read of a lot of examples of the "parking lot beds".

Rarely do I find big rubs in a mature bucks bed or beds. I have found them in the area, maybe 50 to 100 yards away but I have yet to find one in the bed. I am sure someone can give me an example of where they have seen a rub in a mature buck bed, I do not doubt it.

I have followed a couple of mature buck tracks in the snow and notice that they have semi circled from time to time almost as if he knew he was being followed and tried to see me. I even had one bed down in a bit of a random spot just to watch his back trail and bust me. I do not think he was bedding at that time and place other then just to see if he was being followed.


I will think of some more and try to get some pics up to help illustrate what I am talking about. But I would like to hear other thoughts on what makes a mature buck a different animal. Feel free to disagree with me or add to.


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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby Jdw » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:23 pm

They move S L O W and like you already said they know where to travel to have a wind and sight advantage.
They move less during daylight and use other deer as an alert system. I have seen them follow turkeys also.
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby tuff4x4 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:05 am

Yes a couple of very good points.

I have watched a mature buck take 30 mins to go 50 yards. It is painful to watch them move sometimes. Every step seemed to be calculated and predetermined, it was as if he had to use his senses and get approval before moving on. When they decide to stand still it can be several minutes before so much as an ear moves, where a doe will stand still for so long then she tends to stomp or just continue moving.

I was curious if anyone else has seen this? While hunting in a more open timber setting I was watching a mature buck tend a doe. I was up about 30ft in the air and had a very good view due to the lay of the land. The buck and doe were on the hillside when the doe looked down in the bottom as she heard another doe down there blow. The doe froze and just stared in that direction however the buck laid down right away. He had no real cover around him but the first thing he did was lay down. After a few minutes he stood up and everything was back to normal as the buck was close to her as she walked around. Then the doe in the bottom blew again and again the mature buck just laid down. I found it interesting that the mature buck's first decision was to lay down where the other deer would stand there and just look toward the bottom.

Jdw wrote:They move S L O W and like you already said they know where to travel to have a wind and sight advantage.
They move less during daylight and use other deer as an alert system. I have seen them follow turkeys also.

Saw and video taped a flock of turkeys as I was hunting when a mature buck followed behind them no more then 2 minutes later. Seen him again same general area 3 days later and yes he was with the turkeys again.
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby PublicLand » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:28 am

If we could see scent I think it would explain a lot about bucks.
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:40 am

IMO it has more to do with life experiences and individual buck personalities then it does with age. I have seen some rather stupid 4+ y/o bucks on private that didn't get hunted and then I have seen other 2.5 y/o bucks in heavily hunted places act more like a "mature" animal. I also believe bucks have individual personalities. Some are fighters, some not so much. Some are lovers, some don't seem to care as much. Some bucks like buddies some prefer solitude. What I personally think happens is that a bucks particular personality has placed him in locations where he survives. I think a lot of old mature bucks are just the quiet, solitary bucks that just tend to do things differently then other deer. Add in surviving a few hunting seasons and they develop survival habits (otherwise they die young and we don't talk about them). Every single buck born could be a mature buck if he lives long enough. The ones that do live long enough can adapt. However, I also believe that their personality, and where they grow up (i.e. hunting pressure in their home range) allows them to make it through the first 3 years of their life more than anything. IMO there is a huge difference between a mature buck in lets say Kansas or Iowa then a mature buck in PA or MI.
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:54 am

^This^

I'd add that Momma Doe has a lot to do with the early year experiences as well. If she is overly cautious, her offspring will likely be cautious too...
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby thepennsylvanian » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:56 am

This is an awesome thread. This year I had some of my first encounters with mature bucks.
Mature bucks like to enter open fields in low spots in the evenings so they can scent check the field before entering. How about when they leave an open field? Do they leave in a low spot the majority of the time? I have also watched mature bucks walk along the side of a hill that over looks CRP so they can in my opinion look down in the CRP before they enter it and where the bucks entered the CRP field was also in a low spot.
I witnessed a buck skirt the back side of a pasture working the wind. I grunted him back but he didnt like that he couldn't see the "deer" that was grunting and made a big half circle to get down wind of me. The very next day that had that same wind I was back in that area and saw him adjust his path. This time he came in on the back side of the pasture and swung way done low to catch the wind off the field and the point of trees I was in.
He got me. I saw him one more time, this time entering very low into the wind, and he stopped and just stood at the field edge until it was to dark for me to see him.
This particular deer taught me more in those three encounters than I "thought" i had learned in 15 years of hunting!
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby raisins » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:24 am

DaveT1963 wrote:IMO it has more to do with life experiences and individual buck personalities then it does with age.


I believe there is a filtering effect. The "dumber and riskier" ones that are born on public land and stay there don't live long enough to become mature bucks. Same with habitat features. Bucks born in areas where they have an advantage are more likely to survive. So, I think it is a combination of nature, nurture, and random luck for the buck.

I had 3 mature bucks frequenting a 50 acre basin this year on public that bordered a large tract of private. It so happens that the public basin land form caused winds to swirl and switch direction worse than I've ever seen. So, are the deer alive and mature because they were born there or did they find it, or a little of both? Once hunting pressure was on, I never saw them again.
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby tuff4x4 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:35 am

DaveT1963 wrote:IMO it has more to do with life experiences and individual buck personalities then it does with age. I have seen some rather stupid 4+ y/o bucks on private that didn't get hunted and then I have seen other 2.5 y/o bucks in heavily hunted places act more like a "mature" animal. I also believe bucks have individual personalities. Some are fighters, some not so much. Some are lovers, some don't seem to care as much. Some bucks like buddies some prefer solitude. What I personally think happens is that a bucks particular personality has placed him in locations where he survives. I think a lot of old mature bucks are just the quiet, solitary bucks that just tend to do things differently then other deer. Add in surviving a few hunting seasons and they develop survival habits (otherwise they die young and we don't talk about them). Every single buck born could be a mature buck if he lives long enough. The ones that do live long enough can adapt. However, I also believe that their personality, and where they grow up (i.e. hunting pressure in their home range) allows them to make it through the first 3 years of their life more than anything. IMO there is a huge difference between a mature buck in lets say Kansas or Iowa then a mature buck in PA or MI.


I think that you are right but I lack the experience in other states and in extreme hunting pressure or I should say differences. The areas I hunt are in my opinion high however not to the degree of MI or other extremely high pressure places. Say during early season or late during bow tend to be not so high but gun season is extremely high for my areas.

Do you think then that young "mature" bucks home ranges shrink? Or do you think that they tend to stay the same as they age?
I would like to hear any other thoughts you have on mature buck tendencies. I also realize they have individual personalities so each might not do this or that.
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby tuff4x4 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:45 am

Edcyclopedia wrote:^This^

I'd add that Momma Doe has a lot to do with the early year experiences as well. If she is overly cautious, her offspring will likely be cautious too...



Ed in the areas you hunt do you consider mature bucks and "overly cautious" does to be in the same category then?
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:07 am

tuff4x4 wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:IMO it has more to do with life experiences and individual buck personalities then it does with age. I have seen some rather stupid 4+ y/o bucks on private that didn't get hunted and then I have seen other 2.5 y/o bucks in heavily hunted places act more like a "mature" animal. I also believe bucks have individual personalities. Some are fighters, some not so much. Some are lovers, some don't seem to care as much. Some bucks like buddies some prefer solitude. What I personally think happens is that a bucks particular personality has placed him in locations where he survives. I think a lot of old mature bucks are just the quiet, solitary bucks that just tend to do things differently then other deer. Add in surviving a few hunting seasons and they develop survival habits (otherwise they die young and we don't talk about them). Every single buck born could be a mature buck if he lives long enough. The ones that do live long enough can adapt. However, I also believe that their personality, and where they grow up (i.e. hunting pressure in their home range) allows them to make it through the first 3 years of their life more than anything. IMO there is a huge difference between a mature buck in lets say Kansas or Iowa then a mature buck in PA or MI.


I think that you are right but I lack the experience in other states and in extreme hunting pressure or I should say differences. The areas I hunt are in my opinion high however not to the degree of MI or other extremely high pressure places. Say during early season or late during bow tend to be not so high but gun season is extremely high for my areas.

Do you think then that young "mature" bucks home ranges shrink? Or do you think that they tend to stay the same as they age?
I would like to hear any other thoughts you have on mature buck tendencies. I also realize they have individual personalities so each might not do this or that.


I think some of the tendencies noted above reflect what i have seen. Here are a few of my thoughts on some general tendencies:

They tend to bed in places where they can use both sight and smell
They tend to bed in more dense areas (sometimes I question how they get into some of our green briar thickets)
They tend to move more at random times (outside the normal daybreak, nightfall prime times) I hunt 1000-1400 a lot
80% of the year they prefer to feed on browse in their core areas during daylight (IMO most hunters cannot identify areas where they are feeding on browse)
They usually move with purpose - they don't just wander around
when it is unusually windy, they prefer to travel in more open areas to go to and from bedding
They typically are found in cooler spots (down south) and often near a permanent water source
They do not typically use the same trails as other deer and prefer to skirt downwind in thicker cover of doe travel
On public they tend to avoid trees and often bed in CRP (our CRP is 4-6 foot high)
They like to keep tabs on human populations often bedding where they can observe daily activity (farms, hiking trails, etc.)
They will bed using water to protect their downwind side
They can be quite lazy when traveling taking the easiest route (provided it offers security)
They will let other bucks step out first you have to consider that when setting up as those smaller bucks can get past you/downwind)
I often find that older deer do NOT like to leave a lot of sign right where they bed
They have relatively small core areas (and they can have multiple core areas depending on food/doe availability) I am not referring to their home range but core area where they will spend most of their lives within only going out to eat, breed and socialize at times
There movement is ruled by security, food/water and sex - little else
A large number of them are not very social and while they will interact with other deer they do so minimally
They are not as uncommon as most believe - they just are good at not being noticed

These are some very general observations.
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:07 am

tuff4x4 wrote:
Edcyclopedia wrote:^This^

I'd add that Momma Doe has a lot to do with the early year experiences as well. If she is overly cautious, her offspring will likely be cautious too...



Ed in the areas you hunt do you consider mature bucks and "overly cautious" does to be in the same category then?


Yes, the only difference is the Doe is catering to her rambunctious offspring that may cause her to be slightly more vulnerable vs. a nomad buck...

I've killed a few large blockheads and watched a few as well. They are Wiley for sure
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby tuff4x4 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:45 am

Thanks for expanding Dave. I also see a lot what you talked about. Specially about feeding on browse for most of the year and in spots that are void of other deer.

Also keeping tabs on the human population weather it is farmers, hikers, parking lots, or even known travel trails from logging . Also if there is " new " activity going on say at a house. I remodeled a house I bought and with the sudden influx of activity a mature buck would bed so he could watch us, almost to make sure he could keep an eye on us. Pryor there was no regular bedding there.
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby mheichelbech » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:41 am

I have wondered how much it affects a deer when they see one of their crew get shot.
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Re: A different animal...

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:59 am

My opinion here is prob gonna sound very odd, heck maybe even ruffle some feathers. But I don’t think a mature buck is near the wizard guys make em out to be. I mean I have seen em on a small track heavy hunted public in daylight when right on the other side of the fence is 3000 acres that doesn’t allow hunting. They move in daylight and they make mistakes often. It’s a grazing animal with a higher degree of adaptability.

I mean go bass fishing this weekend and catch a 12 pounder! Is it because they are masters of survival or just cause there is not many of them? Fish a lake with a bunch of em then you will catch a bunch. Fish a lake with hardly any and it’s needle in a haystack scenario.

That said I don’t feel they run around like a 1.5 year old constantly or in the wide open. But to me they are no smarter than a old doe. They know the area they live, learned to use the wind, use terrain to move undetected and when hunters are typically in the woods. But no diff than a grown man with way more thought process who knows the risks and decides to drink a few and drive home. There are urges that make everything say screw it!
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