Antler restriction

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
  • Advertisement

HB Store


User avatar
NorthStar
500 Club
Posts: 1518
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:43 am
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby NorthStar » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:18 am

elk yinzer wrote:I'm a big fan of PA antler restrictions. Shooting yearling bucks is just dumb. I think the only changes I would add a spread/beam length to take up some of the mature oddball forkhorns. I would also exempt hunters over 70 in additon to youth.


I will shoot a yearling buck if I need one for the freezer and the zone I am hunting permits it. Yearling bucks taste great!


“The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭12:27‬ ‭NIV‬‬
User avatar
elk yinzer
500 Club
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:39 am
Location: Central PA
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby elk yinzer » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:28 am

NorthStar wrote:
elk yinzer wrote:I'm a big fan of PA antler restrictions. Shooting yearling bucks is just dumb. I think the only changes I would add a spread/beam length to take up some of the mature oddball forkhorns. I would also exempt hunters over 70 in additon to youth.


I will shoot a yearling buck if I need one for the freezer and the zone I am hunting permits it. Yearling bucks taste great!



I guess I should say if you're in a situation where it is reasonable, fine. I get that. AR works here, I'm not saying it works universally.

What I think is dumb is that in PA at one time we killed off 90% of our yearling bucks. 1 out of 10 bucks saw their second birthday.

AR were implemented in 2001 or 2002, right after I started hunting. Up until then, our family had only taken a handful of decent bucks, we we aren't a group of bad hunters. A basket rack 8 pointer was something to brag about, and a 100" deer was a true monster for the area. Now we are getting a few of those deer a season and some P&Y class mixed in. Hunter decline has something to do with that too, but the AR have helped tremendously just getting deer to their 2nd and 3rd birthdays.

Someone was commenting on some sort of all-or-nothing view of AR, which is just completely nonsensical. Clearly hasn't witnessed what PA hunting was like in the 90's.
Treasurer, United Bowhunters of PA
https://ubofpa.org/membership-3
User avatar
NorthStar
500 Club
Posts: 1518
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:43 am
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby NorthStar » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:36 am

I am following what you are saying and I agree with all of it. I am glad these rules are working out in your area my friend.
“The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭12:27‬ ‭NIV‬‬
User avatar
MrT
500 Club
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 5:19 am
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby MrT » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:12 am

The answer to this should be vastly different depending on what part of the country or your state that you're hunting.

But I think ultimately a simple antler restriction is too vague. I think adding some "or"'s to the verbage would generate the result that they are seeking in the first place. For example, instead of just a point or width restriction it might say "Antlers have X points on one side OR antlers are X inches wide OR deer weighs X lbs". I think something as simple as this verbage would make the restriction more effective. I swear I've seen some cowhorns or 4 pointers here in NC that couldn't have weighed less than 180. Of course we don't have any restrictions so everything dies.
User avatar
DaveT1963
500 Club
Posts: 5196
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:27 am
Location: South
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:21 am

The only real value antlers have is to man's ego, for a deer defense, and as a calcium source for rodents.
User avatar
1STRANGEWILDERNESS
500 Club
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:01 am
Location: upper MI
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby 1STRANGEWILDERNESS » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:23 am

Elk Yinzer, your area pre AR.. that’s how it works mostly in MI. The state did implement apr in some areas but it’s mostly “hunters choice” meaning if you purchase a single tag you can kill any size buck. If you buy two buck tags (combo) they will have apr. It doesn’t work to well, There’s still enough guys in the woods with the anything goes tag to basically wipe out the 1.5’s. I think the culture change is saving some bucks though for sure. I don’t loose sleep over it but I laugh at the attempt to satisfy apr guys with this hunters choice law. Nothing really changed. Took a wiz down their backs and told em it was rainin’

How long did it take to notice a difference in your area? Just curious.

I think apr should be thought of as short term pain, long term gain. Most hunters can’t stomach the thought of those first few seasons. Theoretically after that they could bag a buck just as easily if not more easily not to mention herd health.. I don’t think it’s healthy when 95% of bucks in a herd are 1.5 yr old or younger. I’m no biologist though.
don’t be broadcasting when you should be tuning in
User avatar
NorthStar
500 Club
Posts: 1518
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:43 am
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby NorthStar » Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:01 am

DaveT1963 wrote:The only real value antlers have is to man's ego, for a deer defense, and as a calcium source for rodents.


This would be my grandpas new Beast user tagline if he was a Beast member... and if he knew what the internet was...
“The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭12:27‬ ‭NIV‬‬
User avatar
DaveT1963
500 Club
Posts: 5196
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:27 am
Location: South
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:11 am

NorthStar wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:The only real value antlers have is to man's ego, for a deer defense, and as a calcium source for rodents.


This would be my grandpas new Beast user tagline if he was a Beast member... and if he knew what the internet was...


Hey i don't have anything against going after antlers - I do it myself - but we can be honest in doing so :)
User avatar
UntouchableNess
500 Club
Posts: 2070
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:28 am
Location: Eastern Iowa
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby UntouchableNess » Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:03 am

MrT wrote:The answer to this should be vastly different depending on what part of the country or your state that you're hunting.


Yeah, figured I'd get an eye roll from most posting my views from Iowa, I'm not a fan of APR's.

I'm not a fan of APR's, though we don't really have them as people are talking about, using them to increase the age of bucks. You can tag a spike with an antlerless tag, so that is inverse of what people are talking. The first 20+ years of deer hunting for me was as a meat hunter, first legal deer was tagged. Back then, any-sex tags were by lottery and I prayed each year entering it that I would be drawn. Much easier to put meat in the freezer with an any-sex tag. Shot lots of small antlered bucks using antlered-only tags as you might only see one legal deer all gun season.

I heard a stat that Iowa buck harvest each year is 75% 1.5 year olds. Tons of button bucks get shot each year and tagged with anterless tags. See this weblink for the breakdown of Iowa harvest: https://gooutdoorsiowa.com/RealTimeHarvestReport.aspx The chart doesn't break down the antlered buck harvest by age class. So there is still the potential to shift the Iowa harvest from population management to trophy management, though I don't think APR's are the ticket.

APR's would hinder our main population management tool; party hunting during shotgun seasons. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the practice of sharing tags (all members of the group can continue to hunt until all tags are filled), but it survives due to tradition and because it helps keep the population in check. Party hunting used to be a lot of deer drives, which makes for running shots. Might be hard to judge if a deer was legal under APR's in such a situation. I see fewer and fewer large hunting groups as the years go by. Permission is difficult to get anymore, lots of smaller parcels bought by hunters who prefer to sit rather than drive deer during the shotgun season.

Inside spread restrictions would bum me out. I like deer racks that are "tall and tight". I don't find the extremely wide racks appealing. I'll shoot both, but prefer the tall, narrow racked bucks with beams almost touching at the tips. It would pain me to let such a buck walk if it was obvious that it was mature yet he lacked inside spread.

Rather than APR's to "improve" Iowa, I'd suggest 1 buck tag per year (residents can get 2, resident landowners can get 3), keep the regulations the same (keep guns out of the rut and stop adding more weapons to existing seasons).
tim
500 Club
Posts: 2731
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:43 am
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby tim » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:15 am

DaveT1963 wrote:The only real value antlers have is to man's ego, for a deer defense, and as a calcium source for rodents.

I could agree with the ego statement if a guy is boasting and showing off those antlers every chance he gets other than that I consider it more of a challenge than an ego boost
User avatar
DaveT1963
500 Club
Posts: 5196
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:27 am
Location: South
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:27 am

tim wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:The only real value antlers have is to man's ego, for a deer defense, and as a calcium source for rodents.

I could agree with the ego statement if a guy is boasting and showing off those antlers every chance he gets other than that I consider it more of a challenge than an ego boost


I can see that - with all the sales of crossbows, cellular cameras, and other high tech gear I would tend to question how may are in it for the challenge. Like i said i am not opposed to it.... just human nature to quantify a task - antlers gives us a way to do that.
User avatar
Kraftd
500 Club
Posts: 2819
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:44 pm
Location: NE IL
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby Kraftd » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:30 am

DaveT1963 wrote:The only real value antlers have is to man's ego, for a deer defense, and as a calcium source for rodents.


But man egos can be expensive to maintain! Well said.
User avatar
DaveT1963
500 Club
Posts: 5196
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:27 am
Location: South
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:42 am

Kraftd wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:The only real value antlers have is to man's ego, for a deer defense, and as a calcium source for rodents.


But man egos can be expensive to maintain! Well said.
don't even get me started.... there is a reason i am single lol
SteveD
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:43 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby SteveD » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:08 am

Have seen so called "meat" and anti APR hunters who they claim to be , glow and show pics of the big buck they shot but hardly any of the "meat" deer they shoot, hmmm.
If given the choice they will almost always shoot the big buck vs the big doe!And many here know that to be the case.
If your a so called "meat hunter" fine, than shot big does and leave the"baby" bucks and does to add another year of growth,
MEAT and horn wise.
User avatar
Kraftd
500 Club
Posts: 2819
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:44 pm
Location: NE IL
Status: Offline

Re: Antler restriction

Unread postby Kraftd » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:16 am

SteveD wrote:Have seen so called "meat" and anti APR hunters who they claim to be , glow and show pics of the big buck they shot but hardly any of the "meat" deer they shoot, hmmm.
If given the choice they will almost always shoot the big buck vs the big doe!And many here know that to be the case.
If your a so called "meat hunter" fine, than shot big does and leave the"baby" bucks and does to add another year of growth,
MEAT and horn wise.


I don't disagree that this happens often. That said, there are absolutely areas where if you want meat killing a small buck is better for the local herd than killing a doe. I hunt tow states, probably 8-10 counties and 30 + properties. I pride myself on being tuned in enough to feel like I have a good understanding of what is feasible at any of those spots. Many of them have very low deer densities overall, would only shoot a mature buck there, and antlers is a big part of that admittedly.

I have spots with lots of deer and out of whack sex ratio, would certainly shoot mature bucks there, but those are my doe spots. I have at least two areas where I see a lot of young bucks and bucks overall, but few does. If it was getting down to it I'd have not problem killing a small buck on these spots, but would not kill a doe.

I also have a few spots with balanced herds from and age and sex perspective, with healthy numbers. IMO, these spots, especially with low pressure, can withstand taking any deer, though they obviously happen to be by best big buck spots too so generally wait and pass a lot there.

I guess point with respect to APRs is, what value I do see in them is to counteract the fact that most people don't have the skill, time or interest in making these kinds of assessments and I can see the value in regulating around that I suppose.


  • Advertisement

Return to “Deer Hunting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 92 guests