Antler restriction

[PK_]

The whole goal of PA's AR's was to allow more buck to live to 2.5 years old. I think prior to AR 90% of the harvest was 1.5 year olds. It isn't about trophy management. Very few bucks in PA live past 2.5 now.

That’s deff a different take. I guess in my head, in the grand plan, what is the diff in a buck living until 2.5? I personally think if a state really cared about the age of animals yet still having a lengthy season. Then have a short gun season that takes place after the rut. No antler restriction required! Be willing to bet after a few years of that there will be much better opportunity for a trophy class animal. Won’t ever happen due to money involved which brings me back to what is the point of antler restriction lol. I mean if they wanna go for the gold in terms of trophy caliber animals there’s better ways to go about it. But imo letting a 1.5 go to 2.5 does nothing for the trophy or meat hunter.

Exactly. States that have had APRs for years have shown that all they do in most cases is swap the 1.5 yo buck harvest with a 2.5 yo buck harvest. The amount of bucks surviving or being harvested 3.5+ was not really affected.

I used to seek out areas with APRs to hunt, now it isn’t even on my radar, unless you just like seeing more 1.5 and 2.5 yo bucks...

You need to limit overall buck harvest to help more reach maturity, period. That or increase the overall number of bucks drastically...

Idk, just my personal opinion at this point in time.

[cspot]

This data from the PGC is probably a better explanation than I gave.

https://www.pgc.pa.gov/Wildlife/Wildlif ... rking.aspx

[NorthStar]

I have a tendency of making topics like these controversial, but I have an opinion on this that is rarely shared by other hunters. I wish we would get rid of antler restrictions. We had a 4 point on one side and brow tines must be greater than 1in rule for years in the zone that I hunt and now we have CWD concerns (I am not saying the two are related but I am not saying they're not either.) I understand that having more mature deer out there makes trophy hunting more fun but there are some of us who are not that great at hunting or just want to put meat in the freezer. I would say that 75% of my sits, I don't even see a deer. With most states only allowing a tag or two per person, why not leave it to the hunter to decide what they want to shoot?

I know that one size does not fit all when talking about rules like these so maybe antler restrictions make sense for certain areas. I can only speak from my own experiences.

[Boogieman1]

I have a tendency of making topics like these controversial, but I have an opinion on this that is rarely shared by other hunters. I wish we would get rid of antler restrictions. We had a 4 point on one side and brow tines must be greater than 1in rule for years in the zone that I hunt and now we have CWD concerns (I am not saying the two are related but I am not saying they're not either.) I understand that having more mature deer out there makes trophy hunting more fun but there are some of us who are not that great at hunting or just want to put meat in the freezer. I would say that 75% of my sits, I don't even see a deer. With most states only allowing a tag or two per person, why not leave it to the hunter to decide what they want to shoot?

I know that one size does not fit all when talking about rules like these so maybe antler restrictions make sense for certain areas. I can only speak from my own experiences.

Not controversial at all. I pretty much agree. I think on public land u should be able to shoot whatever the heck u want. I mean some hunters only get one long weekend a year to get after em. On private the guys involved can set up there own rules, cause they do anyway. But it’s like I said it all revolves around the money of the giant horns. You never see any body weight restriction where a buck must weigh this much regardless of antler size and u never will!

[Rich M]

I think AR restrictions are a lot of fluff and little substance.

Most guys I know and read online tell a hack of a story and then shoot the first legal thing to come along. A lot of guys who travel shoot deer that they would pass back at home - WTH?

FL is in its 5th year of antler restrictions - 10 inch beam or 3 pts on a side. Basically a 2nd year buck. It has done little for the average guy and helped the guys who get deer anyway. Once they hit 3rd year they become beasts and don't travel a lot during daylight.

In FL we've got our own issues due to heat, poor soil quality, and recently someone said it takes 5 does to produce one 2.5 yr old 8 pt. Yet hunter folks are screaming and moaning to kill 4 does a year. Another What The Heck? These are the same guys who want ARs to grow bigger bucks cause you don't shoot young bucks, you shoot does instead. Stupid is as stupid does. FL should have no does allowed - that way they can make more babies for that 1 in 5 to survive to become a legal buck. Hello? A little common sense and trigger control goes a long ways for success like you want. You want to shoot you have to manage for numbers, you want big bucks, you manage for antlers and you shoot a lot less deer.

As for Boogie's passing a high & tight buck - tough call. Add a bunch of LEOs who go by the letter of the law to be Gestapo as opposed to the purpose of it. I'm sure some dude fresh out of the academy would love to slam a hunter for shooting a 5 yr old buck with 1 or 2 inches off on the measurements. Had to be a decent buck if Boogie wanted to shoot it...

The ARs are to increase the age classes, etc.

GA has an anything goes and then 4 per side in most areas, 4 per side or better in others. I shot a 15-inch inside spread 3x1 buck that was 185 pounds, had no teeth above the gums, and the rack was heavy. In a 4 pt county, it would have been illegal yet it was a mature back like they are trying to grow. To be honest, I saw heavy horns and shot it - didn't worry so much about counting tines and widths.

I was on the Minnesota or such state forums the other day - looking for something - they were slamming ARs for kids quitting. First they let kids shoot anything during youth hunt then during the regular season, they have to follow the rules and after X sits without shooting, they quit - tired of looking and not shooting. FL allows kids to shoot smaller bucks all season. Why? To get them interested...then slam em with the rules later.

Crazy chit out there - they keep changing the rules to try these half-baked feel-good ideas - most guys either want to just hunt trophy only or most guys just want to shoot something. I just want to hunt and if I see something like Boogie did, that I want to shoot, I want to be able to shoot it.

[cspot]

I have a tendency of making topics like these controversial, but I have an opinion on this that is rarely shared by other hunters. I wish we would get rid of antler restrictions. We had a 4 point on one side and brow tines must be greater than 1in rule for years in the zone that I hunt and now we have CWD concerns (I am not saying the two are related but I am not saying they're not either.) I understand that having more mature deer out there makes trophy hunting more fun but there are some of us who are not that great at hunting or just want to put meat in the freezer. I would say that 75% of my sits, I don't even see a deer. With most states only allowing a tag or two per person, why not leave it to the hunter to decide what they want to shoot?

I know that one size does not fit all when talking about rules like these so maybe antler restrictions make sense for certain areas. I can only speak from my own experiences.

Not controversial at all. I pretty much agree. I think on public land u should be able to shoot whatever the heck u want. I mean some hunters only get one long weekend a year to get after em. On private the guys involved can set up there own rules, cause they do anyway. But it’s like I said it all revolves around the money of the giant horns. You never see any body weight restriction where a buck must weigh this much regardless of antler size and u never will!

A body weight size restriction would be very difficult for hunters to judge. Points are typically used because it is the easiest for hunters to identify although it is not perfect.

The AR's have not turned PA into a trophy buck state at all. You don't see PA on any of those "Top states for big bucks" type articles. Success rates are the same that they were 20 years ago for buck in PA so those weekend guys still have the same chance to shoot a buck. Again I am not a big fan of AR's, but just stating what I have seen first hand in PA and what the data shows here. I can't speak to AR's in other states.

[stash59]

The whole goal of PA's AR's was to allow more buck to live to 2.5 years old. I think prior to AR 90% of the harvest was 1.5 year olds. It isn't about trophy management. Very few bucks in PA live past 2.5 now.

That’s deff a different take. I guess in my head, in the grand plan, what is the diff in a buck living until 2.5? I personally think if a state really cared about the age of animals yet still having a lengthy season. Then have a short gun season that takes place after the rut. No antler restriction required! Be willing to bet after a few years of that there will be much better opportunity for a trophy class animal. Won’t ever happen due to money involved which brings me back to what is the point of antler restriction lol. I mean if they wanna go for the gold in terms of trophy caliber animals there’s better ways to go about it. But imo letting a 1.5 go to 2.5 does nothing for the trophy or meat hunter.

It was to get a better age structure in the herd which it did help. As hunters numbers drop the need for it will be less and I could see them being eliminated. They are actually talking about eliminating them next year in the CWD areas. About 2/3 of hunters like the current antler restrictions though because they are now shooting a nice 2 year old 8 point instead of a 1.5 year old. On average we probably have some more 3.5 year old and older buck, but it hasn't made a huge difference. The decrease in hunter numbers is helping with that more than the AR's.

One thing to remember is that PA has the highest hunter density in the country, so what is needed here might not be needed alot of other places. Going to an AR is better then reducing opportunity. From my understanding if they made a more restrictive Antler restriction then they would be protecting too many bucks which wouldn't be good either. Also you would have more buck that would never meet the AR.

I've said this before!!! AR's using antler points are just plain stupid. They don't really do much to actually improve age structure. Even if your now killing mostly 2.5YO bucks. You haven't improved the age structure. Proper age structure has a balance between the ages. You'll still have higher numbers in the younger age classes. But you won't have the sharp drops from 1 age class to the next year older. Like we see now in most states.

I do like width restrictions. But like the idea of adding a beam length option too. The correct measurements should cover most bucks that reach, say 3.5YO. Alot of bucks that reach 3.5 will be smart enough to elude hunters, to live to be older. And it will get better the longer this type of AR is in place. Cause plenty of 3.5YO bucks that barely make the minimums. Will end up getting passed.

But there should also be a provision for bucks that are of the correct age class but, may not reach the minimums. Other antler and body characteristics should be reviewed by the game department. So these type of bucks can end up being considered legal if taken. Along with any pics and or videos from over a couple years that shows the buck is of a legal age.

Also should be provisions for 1st time hunters. That allows them to take a buck that doesn't meet the requirements. For the first couple bucks they actually kill.

Alot of hunters will bawk at these restrictions. But in 2 seasons there will be plenty of legal 3.5YO's to shoot. And everyone will learn how to judge these measurements in the field. I would also think this would help hunter recruitment in the long run. Having a real chance at older age class bucks should get/keep people excited. And may actually take some pressure off of does too. Because a few less hunters will shoot does just to get some meat.

I don't buy you'd be leaving too many bucks alive by using this type of AR. And if it would be really so. Just give out a limited number of "any" buck tags to get around this "problem".

[218er]

I think apr are just annoying. I’m hunting an area with a 4 point a side restriction right now. There is an old six point, a 3 by 3 that looks to be 5 years old or so. Just an old warrior. I’ve seen him a couple of times. It’s a great looking buck. Not legal. There’s a handful of young 8 pointers that are probably 1.5 year olds. There legal. What’s the point. Let people shoot what they want.

[Ghost Hunter]

We have 3 points on one side rule here. WMA I hunt is 18 inch main beams or 15" spread. I'm okay with rules we have here.

[RidgeGhost]

I hunted a couple counties with apr's in MO this year - 4pts on one side. As others have already said, it bumped the age class up to 2.5. I passed a handful of 1.5 and 15 2.5yr old bucks in a week. Passed only two 3.5 and only saw two older than that.

Prior to that hunt I would have been in support of apr's. After experiencing that, I'm not sure they really promote many older bucks than without. I think the timing and length of the gun season plays into the effectiveness of the apr too.

One buck tag is the golden ticket. Herd #s can be controlled with doe tags if need be.

[Boogieman1]

While I don’t think it’s anymore productive I think for myself a basic point system would be easier to judge in the moment of truth. I mean I compare a lot of stuff to fishing and on lakes with a slot I know I would have been burned many of times without the use of a tape measure.

For me there is no win/win. Everyone has brought up quality opinions but at the end of the day don’t think any restriction does anything to really improve everyone’s experience. I remember when I started out there were no restrictions and it took me years to kill anything. Lord knows how long it would have taken if there was, I’m a hard headed person and I still think I might have given up and found something else to do. So I can easily see people quitting cause they go years without a kill.

I guess for me going through the process of bigger bucks was always about maintaining the feel good challenge. That challenge is always there regardless of restrictions. For those who care nothing about it I don’t feel they should be penalized.

[treeroot]

I don't like rules in general. Limiting the doe harvest would be the be the best course I think. Second would be to limit our gun season.

[tim]

I think they are stupid. Just because I want to pass young deer and hold out doesn’t mean I think that it should be a law or others should have to. It’s supposed to be fun, the more rules and laws just make it less fun for some. Those of us that want to hold out enjoy doing it and spending the entire season out there , others don’t or don’t have the time to do so .

[Swedishbowhunter]

I kinda wish Wisconsin would try something, like stop all doe shooting up north except for the youth. I would be fine with the 1 buck per season rule, but then Wisconsin would have to end the group bagging law, which i would be all for, but it think it would be the end of gun hunting in the state. The wolf and the xbow's appear to be removing a lot of deer off of the landscape. Allowing xbows all season long is not helping anything, I would like to see them allowed only in the muzzeloader season.

[elk yinzer]

I'm a big fan of PA antler restrictions. Shooting yearling bucks is just dumb. I think the only changes I would add a spread/beam length to take up some of the mature oddball forkhorns. I would also exempt hunters over 70 in additon to youth.