Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby BigAir » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:55 pm

may21581 wrote:
Pudster wrote:I think the biggest factor is our new tagging/registration system that is producing these statistics. My theory is there are a good amount of people not registering there deer cause it is now way to easy for them to cut it up take a 2nd copy of there tag and go back out and shoot another. Go back to in person registration and the plastic tags again and I bet the harvest goes right back up.


X2 I've been saying this the whole time too!



Yeah I don't buy it. It was and is just as easy to not register a deer now as it was before online registration. You will have people that do and you have ones that don't.


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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby may21581 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:54 am

BigAir wrote:
may21581 wrote:
Pudster wrote:I think the biggest factor is our new tagging/registration system that is producing these statistics. My theory is there are a good amount of people not registering there deer cause it is now way to easy for them to cut it up take a 2nd copy of there tag and go back out and shoot another. Go back to in person registration and the plastic tags again and I bet the harvest goes right back up.


X2 I've been saying this the whole time too!



Yeah I don't buy it. It was and is just as easy to not register a deer now as it was before online registration. You will have people that do and you have ones that don't.


Let's just say it has made it a much easier game for those that dont abide by the laws.
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Jonny » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:27 am

Bowhunting Brian wrote:
may21581 wrote:
Pudster wrote:I think the biggest factor is our new tagging/registration system that is producing these statistics. My theory is there are a good amount of people not registering there deer cause it is now way to easy for them to cut it up take a 2nd copy of there tag and go back out and shoot another. Go back to in person registration and the plastic tags again and I bet the harvest goes right back up.


X2 I've been saying this the whole time too!


I doubt it.


I doubt it as well. People didn’t tag deer before the change and the same people don’t tag them now. The number of dishonest hunters hasn’t changed over time. Maybe slightly but the percentage out of total hunters shouldn’t change.


Yeah it’s super easy to not tag a deer now. It was super easy before as well.
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Swedishbowhunter » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:11 am

Jonny wrote:
Bowhunting Brian wrote:
may21581 wrote:
Pudster wrote:I think the biggest factor is our new tagging/registration system that is producing these statistics. My theory is there are a good amount of people not registering there deer cause it is now way to easy for them to cut it up take a 2nd copy of there tag and go back out and shoot another. Go back to in person registration and the plastic tags again and I bet the harvest goes right back up.


X2 I've been saying this the whole time too!


I doubt it.


I doubt it as well. People didn’t tag deer before the change and the same people don’t tag them now. The number of dishonest hunters hasn’t changed over time. Maybe slightly but the percentage out of total hunters shouldn’t change.


Yeah it’s super easy to not tag a deer now. It was super easy before as well.

Not so much when we had the old green plastic tags. You had to cut the tag in order to be legal, not able to be used again. Today once someone has the deer home or to the cabin & cut up they can just head right back out hunting with their original buck tag. As long as they are not talking about it or posting pics on social media an outlaws greatest chance of getting caught is when bringing the deer out of the woods to home.
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Swedishbowhunter » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:19 am

Jackson Marsh wrote:I have a hard time believing 25% of the hunters are cheating the system, especially when extra tags are dirt cheap.


I dont think you have spent much time in Northern Wisconsin then. That seems to be the norm up there, allowing baiting, x-bow use, phone registration, and these new tagging laws made it the perfect storm for those ole boys. I am not saying everyone from up there is an outlaw, & maybe its because i am originally from Northern WI and know a lot of people up there, but I am saying it happens a lot more than people think. The 4 outlaws I helped the warden catch here in southern wi were shooting 7-8 bucks each per year, and that was before xbows and this tagging system we have now.
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby may21581 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:31 am

Pudster wrote:
Jackson Marsh wrote:I have a hard time believing 25% of the hunters are cheating the system, especially when extra tags are dirt cheap.


I dont think you have spent much time in Northern Wisconsin then. That seems to be the norm up there, allowing baiting, x-bow use, phone registration, and these new tagging laws made it the perfect storm for those ole boys. I am not saying everyone from up there is an outlaw, & maybe its because i am originally from Northern WI and know a lot of people up there, but I am saying it happens a lot more than people think. The 4 outlaws I helped the warden catch here in southern wi were shooting 7-8 bucks each per year, and that was before xbows and this tagging system we have now.


I agree with this. Add it to ehd, more bow hunters now hunting earlier and getting burned out, and many other things. It's a combination of many things.
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Crazinamatese » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:12 am

Dewey wrote:
may21581 wrote:
Pudster wrote:I think the biggest factor is our new tagging/registration system that is producing these statistics. My theory is there are a good amount of people not registering there deer cause it is now way to easy for them to cut it up take a 2nd copy of there tag and go back out and shoot another. Go back to in person registration and the plastic tags again and I bet the harvest goes right back up.


X2 I've been saying this the whole time too!

Talk to your local taxidermist who has been doing it for a long time. They will tell you how much business is down. That’s a pretty good gauge for how bad the deer and especially the buck population is. The DNR can claim there are two million plus deer on the landscape but anybody that spends any amount of time out there in a very large portion of the state will tell you otherwise. I’m amazed by how many guys I talked to from all corners of the state saw zero deer during the gun season. Most of them are very experienced hunters too. The numbers just don’t add up but the deer kill tells the story well. Just keeps getting worse year after year. Doesn’t sound like a “growing” population to me.

But taxidermy bills are going up in prices?? Maybe people are going cheaper with other alternatives??
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Jonny » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:19 am

Pudster wrote:
Jonny wrote:
Bowhunting Brian wrote:
may21581 wrote:
Pudster wrote:I think the biggest factor is our new tagging/registration system that is producing these statistics. My theory is there are a good amount of people not registering there deer cause it is now way to easy for them to cut it up take a 2nd copy of there tag and go back out and shoot another. Go back to in person registration and the plastic tags again and I bet the harvest goes right back up.


X2 I've been saying this the whole time too!


I doubt it.


I doubt it as well. People didn’t tag deer before the change and the same people don’t tag them now. The number of dishonest hunters hasn’t changed over time. Maybe slightly but the percentage out of total hunters shouldn’t change.


Yeah it’s super easy to not tag a deer now. It was super easy before as well.

Not so much when we had the old green plastic tags. You had to cut the tag in order to be legal, not able to be used again. Today once someone has the deer home or to the cabin & cut up they can just head right back out hunting with their original buck tag. As long as they are not talking about it or posting pics on social media an outlaws greatest chance of getting caught is when bringing the deer out of the woods to home.


I know of plenty of deer that were shot and never tagged. Just as many then as now.

Cutting the tag or using the authorization number doesn’t make a difference. If nobody saw you drag one out, you don’t say anything, who can say you shot a deer. Need a warrant to search a freezer. And I can count on half my hand the number of times I’ve seen a warden. And never remotely close to dark.

How many deer were shot for camp meat in the past? Everybody has heard those stories right? Or using the old metal tag from a previous year and having the new one in a pocket in case the warden is there.

Dishonest people have always existed. Fact is there aren’t as many deer as the Dnr thinks there is. And they don’t want to admit they are wrong.
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Kraftd » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:04 am

In my opinion, this is an incredibly complex discussion. There are so many factors at play, and the real story is different depedning upon where in the state you are and whether hunting public or private. Just a smattering of the issues, many have already noted.

1. Many more people waiting on big bucks and passing young bucks.
2. Less and less people reliant on game meat as a primary source of food, so less people filling tags no mater what it takes
3. Locking up private land in leases or to smaller groups for better hunting and hordeing deer herds, for lack of a better way to put it.
4. Tagging system. Its not the only issue, but I think it is an issue. It does make it easier to violate, and the easier it is, the more likely the margins are to do it. Violators will violate no matter what, when its this easy, folks who may not have been willing to risk it, may now.
5. Less and less driving going on.
6. Season generally post-rut (late as it can be)
7. Generally pleasant weather for opening weekend. Deer and people didn't have to move.
8. General loss of hunters and overall laziness of the populations
9. etc. etc. etc.

I have no doubt there are areas of the state (North of Hwy 8 for certain) that the numbers are WAY down. Generally I think numbers on public have been trending down across the state for 20 years. That said, the overall harvest continuing to decline for that and many of the reasons above is not the least bit surprising to me.

I think the step to County based management and some distinction in tags between public and private were good steps. I also think we as hunters need to understand that we are part of the deer management discussion, but not the only voice. There are many other voices in this conversation, and many of them have different goals than we do. A resources management agencies goals aren't necessarily lots of deer and big bucks, and that's probably ok in many cases.
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Swedishbowhunter » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:03 am

Kraftd wrote:In my opinion, this is an incredibly complex discussion. There are so many factors at play, and the real story is different depedning upon where in the state you are and whether hunting public or private. Just a smattering of the issues, many have already noted.

1. Many more people waiting on big bucks and passing young bucks.
2. Less and less people reliant on game meat as a primary source of food, so less people filling tags no mater what it takes
3. Locking up private land in leases or to smaller groups for better hunting and hordeing deer herds, for lack of a better way to put it.
4. Tagging system. Its not the only issue, but I think it is an issue. It does make it easier to violate, and the easier it is, the more likely the margins are to do it. Violators will violate no matter what, when its this easy, folks who may not have been willing to risk it, may now.
5. Less and less driving going on.
6. Season generally post-rut (late as it can be)
7. Generally pleasant weather for opening weekend. Deer and people didn't have to move.
8. General loss of hunters and overall laziness of the populations
9. etc. etc. etc.

I have no doubt there are areas of the state (North of Hwy 8 for certain) that the numbers are WAY down. Generally I think numbers on public have been trending down across the state for 20 years. That said, the overall harvest continuing to decline for that and many of the reasons above is not the least bit surprising to me.

I think the step to County based management and some distinction in tags between public and private were good steps. I also think we as hunters need to understand that we are part of the deer management discussion, but not the only voice. There are many other voices in this conversation, and many of them have different goals than we do. A resources management agencies goals aren't necessarily lots of deer and big bucks, and that's probably ok in many cases.

I 100% agree, There also seems to be a much larger predator population than there has been years ago. Up North we are also questioning if there was a larger winter kill than was initially estimated. What makes me chuckle is the big groups that have the brown its down philosophy that complain about not seeing deer anymore...... really, you shot every deer your group seen for the last 5 years and now you wonder why there isnt any deer in that section any longer....... must be the DNR not being able to count!!! lol
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Dewey » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:25 am

Crazinamatese wrote:
Dewey wrote:
may21581 wrote:
Pudster wrote:I think the biggest factor is our new tagging/registration system that is producing these statistics. My theory is there are a good amount of people not registering there deer cause it is now way to easy for them to cut it up take a 2nd copy of there tag and go back out and shoot another. Go back to in person registration and the plastic tags again and I bet the harvest goes right back up.


X2 I've been saying this the whole time too!

Talk to your local taxidermist who has been doing it for a long time. They will tell you how much business is down. That’s a pretty good gauge for how bad the deer and especially the buck population is. The DNR can claim there are two million plus deer on the landscape but anybody that spends any amount of time out there in a very large portion of the state will tell you otherwise. I’m amazed by how many guys I talked to from all corners of the state saw zero deer during the gun season. Most of them are very experienced hunters too. The numbers just don’t add up but the deer kill tells the story well. Just keeps getting worse year after year. Doesn’t sound like a “growing” population to me.

But taxidermy bills are going up in prices?? Maybe people are going cheaper with other alternatives??

That's possible but my taxidermist has been doing it for 40 years and he said business was always pretty steady or even increasing no matter how bad the economy was. Seems guys always found a way to scrape up money for a shoulder mount if they killed a good buck. The drastic downward trend has been going on for about 6-7 years now and follows the reduced deer kill perfectly. He was doing 300+ mounts per year around 2010 but is doing barely half of that now.
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Kraftd » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:41 am

Pudster wrote:
Kraftd wrote:In my opinion, this is an incredibly complex discussion. There are so many factors at play, and the real story is different depedning upon where in the state you are and whether hunting public or private. Just a smattering of the issues, many have already noted.

1. Many more people waiting on big bucks and passing young bucks.
2. Less and less people reliant on game meat as a primary source of food, so less people filling tags no mater what it takes
3. Locking up private land in leases or to smaller groups for better hunting and hordeing deer herds, for lack of a better way to put it.
4. Tagging system. Its not the only issue, but I think it is an issue. It does make it easier to violate, and the easier it is, the more likely the margins are to do it. Violators will violate no matter what, when its this easy, folks who may not have been willing to risk it, may now.
5. Less and less driving going on.
6. Season generally post-rut (late as it can be)
7. Generally pleasant weather for opening weekend. Deer and people didn't have to move.
8. General loss of hunters and overall laziness of the populations
9. etc. etc. etc.

I have no doubt there are areas of the state (North of Hwy 8 for certain) that the numbers are WAY down. Generally I think numbers on public have been trending down across the state for 20 years. That said, the overall harvest continuing to decline for that and many of the reasons above is not the least bit surprising to me.

I think the step to County based management and some distinction in tags between public and private were good steps. I also think we as hunters need to understand that we are part of the deer management discussion, but not the only voice. There are many other voices in this conversation, and many of them have different goals than we do. A resources management agencies goals aren't necessarily lots of deer and big bucks, and that's probably ok in many cases.

I 100% agree, There also seems to be a much larger predator population than there has been years ago. Up North we are also questioning if there was a larger winter kill than was initially estimated. What makes me chuckle is the big groups that have the brown its down philosophy that complain about not seeing deer anymore...... really, you shot every deer your group seen for the last 5 years and now you wonder why there isnt any deer in that section any longer....... must be the DNR not being able to count!!! lol


That's always one that gets me too. DNR only issues the tags, they don't pull the trigger. If you're tuned in to the areas you hunt, you should have some sense on whether shooting antlerless deer is appropriate. Be part of the solution, not the problem. I hunt some properties and counties where I will, and some where I won't. We need to take some responsibility as hunters in this. I do think years ago, more folks were more tuned in to that and it helped.
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Dewey » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:05 pm

Here are the results by county. Pretty staggering drops in the northwoods. :o

https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabita ... 8v2019.pdf
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Jackson Marsh » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:21 pm

Dewey wrote:Here are the results by county. Pretty staggering drops in the northwoods. :o

https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabita ... 8v2019.pdf



:twisted:

Not good.

On the plus side Milwaukee county had a big harvest jump. :lol:
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Re: Wisconsin Deer Kill Down 25 percent?

Unread postby Dewey » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:26 pm

Still believe there is a record number of deer in the state? :confusion-confused:


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