PA Kids Torturing and Beating a Buck

[ThePreBanMan]

Sad situation indeed, no animal deserves to suffer. Obviously those kids either been raised incorrectly or need serious mental health help. I hope they receive all that's coming to them being serious charges have been levied, but I also hope they get the help they need and can one day put this behind them. Being a teen leaves a long time to have something follow you.

Both...
There's no one single cause IMHO. Violent video games desensitize kids to violence. 1 out of every 2 kids is raised in a single-parent household, which pretty much always leads to lack of discipline in their behavior. Parents raising kids these days are more concerned about hurting their feelings and having their kids be their friends then they are with having their kids have their respect.

Public schools aren't helping the situation. Kids are exposed to forced "diversity" where they're forced to accept mental illnesses like "transgender" as actually normal behavior that should be admired. **If being transgendered isn't in fact a mental illness, then why is the attempted suicide rate roughly 40% - even among post-op "transgendered" people?** Also, why did the entire world consider it to be such until just recently? It seems only Western Europe and the USA have lost their collective sanity on the topic - but I digress... Just the point - that this garbage is what kids are exposed to in school now. They're taught not to value life by the pro-abortion "woman's liberation" movement that has infected our public school system. Is it any wonder kids see no problem being cruel to an animal when POST BIRTH abortion is legal in some states - looking at you CA, NY and VA... These people should be ashamed of themselves... But when they lack shame, morals, or ethics on that topic, is cruelty to animals really that far of a stretch?

That's what kids are taught these days... So is it really any wonder?

[wolverinebuckman]

Both...
There's no one single cause IMHO. Violent video games desensitize kids to violence. 1 out of every 2 kids is raised in a single-parent household, which pretty much always leads to lack of discipline in their behavior. Parents raising kids these days are more concerned about hurting their feelings and having their kids be their friends then they are with having their kids have their respect.

Public schools aren't helping the situation. Kids are exposed to forced "diversity" where they're forced to accept mental illnesses like "transgender" as actually normal behavior that should be admired. **If being transgendered isn't in fact a mental illness, then why is the attempted suicide rate roughly 40% - even among post-op "transgendered" people?** Also, why did the entire world consider it to be such until just recently? It seems only Western Europe and the USA have lost their collective sanity on the topic - but I digress... Just the point - that this garbage is what kids are exposed to in school now. They're taught not to value life by the pro-abortion "woman's liberation" movement that has infected our public school system. Is it any wonder kids see no problem being cruel to an animal when POST BIRTH abortion is legal in some states - looking at you CA, NY and VA... These people should be ashamed of themselves... But when they lack shame, morals, or ethics on that topic, is cruelty to animals really that far of a stretch?

That's what kids are taught these days... So is it really any wonder?

Very well stated!

[Bowhunting Brian]

What these kids did was terrible, and wrong on so many levels. But I too was young “Dumb” once and had a run in with the law. I do not wish for the rest of these kids lives to be ruined because of 20 minutes of stupid.

I ask many on this board to think about what their punishment would have been for this 50 years ago.

I don’t know what it would have been but I can guarantee you it would not have been 7 years in jail. They need to get the crap fined out of them 15/20K, they need to spend a few nights in jail, they need to be put on probation, and do community service, but they don’t need this thing to be carried with them for 20/30 years.

Getting caught shoplifting or drinking underage is a world away from torturing an animal. Psychopaths and sociopaths usually start as kids abusing animals.

I’ve heard his argument for years but I have never seen any study or statistics to prove what you are saying. It’s like “the kids are violent these days because of violent video games” it’s never been proven to be true. Again 50 years ago you could get in a fight and knock someone out and there would be no charges. Now it is battery or assault or whatever, im just trying to add a little perspective.

I am sure at this point these guys realize that they messed up big time. That may be enough in and of itself to not do anything like this again.

I ask the question again, what would have been the punishment for these guys 50 years ago?

I’m not saying they should not be punished, there is just a lot of virtue signaling in this thread. I don’t think that this should ruin these guys life. Now if there comes out that there is a second offense or other past issues, that is a different.

If you haven't seen any study or statistics to prove what he is saying then I suspect you haven't made the effort to look into it. It's there. You just have to make the effort.

As for 50 years ago.... what has that got to do with it? I would hope that we learn as time goes on. If we were to be stuck in the past & not progress in our thinking we would still be living in caves.

Also, everyone knows you don't get the maximum for first offenses. Not even close unless you did something unbelievably heinous. If you looked into this story you would have seen that this is NOT the only time they have done this sort of thing to animals either, but I still doubt they will get the maximum.

Thanks for replying for me! Agreed overall. The 50 years argument got me the most. Yeah, back in the middle ages they used to burn cats in bags in public for superstitious reasons. So what does 50 years have to do with the price of eggs in China? Back then people didn't have phones with video and probably weren't dumb enough to tape themselves doing crimes.

Also, the term "virtue signaling" was tacked on there for no reason. You could claim someone is virtue signaling anytime they judge behavior as immoral.

"yeah, that judge that gave me 5 years for arson....was such a virtue signaling sonofabiscuit......"

Virtue signaling is typically used when people make a huge public deal in a way to draw attention to themselves and what they are upset about is something minor (the girl's aisle in a toy store had too many pink baby dolls and that is sexist).

I stand corrected, I did research and found that there is substantial evidence of a “link” between animal violence and almost all other forms of Violence.

I’m not trying to defend these kids and what they did, it was terrible. I was just reading through the thread and saw people saying stuff like “I hope these kids rot in jail”. That just bothered me. I think they should be punished severely and I hope it turns them around and they can become good citizens. That is all I am trying to say, don’t want to see young peoples lives ruined, for making stupid decisions.

Agreed, and thanks for clarifying that. We're all friends here, and sometimes friends disagree and get into somewhat heated debates!

A friend of my brother got caught drinking a beer on some railroad tracks in high school and got sent to juvenile prison. In that facility he met real criminals and was abused by staff and other prisoners. It ruined his life and no one knows where he is now, but hopefully he improves at some point. So I get what you are saying.

Raisins, that happens in our system quite a bit. Our system is far from perfect and many times and places corrupt. Take good people that made a dumb mistake and punish them to the point it makes them criminals or wrecks their life forever. But the judges and attorneys got paid and that is all that matters sometimes.

[raisins]

What these kids did was terrible, and wrong on so many levels. But I too was young “Dumb” once and had a run in with the law. I do not wish for the rest of these kids lives to be ruined because of 20 minutes of stupid.

I ask many on this board to think about what their punishment would have been for this 50 years ago.

I don’t know what it would have been but I can guarantee you it would not have been 7 years in jail. They need to get the crap fined out of them 15/20K, they need to spend a few nights in jail, they need to be put on probation, and do community service, but they don’t need this thing to be carried with them for 20/30 years.

Getting caught shoplifting or drinking underage is a world away from torturing an animal. Psychopaths and sociopaths usually start as kids abusing animals.

I’ve heard his argument for years but I have never seen any study or statistics to prove what you are saying. It’s like “the kids are violent these days because of violent video games” it’s never been proven to be true. Again 50 years ago you could get in a fight and knock someone out and there would be no charges. Now it is battery or assault or whatever, im just trying to add a little perspective.

I am sure at this point these guys realize that they messed up big time. That may be enough in and of itself to not do anything like this again.

I ask the question again, what would have been the punishment for these guys 50 years ago?

I’m not saying they should not be punished, there is just a lot of virtue signaling in this thread. I don’t think that this should ruin these guys life. Now if there comes out that there is a second offense or other past issues, that is a different.

If you haven't seen any study or statistics to prove what he is saying then I suspect you haven't made the effort to look into it. It's there. You just have to make the effort.

As for 50 years ago.... what has that got to do with it? I would hope that we learn as time goes on. If we were to be stuck in the past & not progress in our thinking we would still be living in caves.

Also, everyone knows you don't get the maximum for first offenses. Not even close unless you did something unbelievably heinous. If you looked into this story you would have seen that this is NOT the only time they have done this sort of thing to animals either, but I still doubt they will get the maximum.

Thanks for replying for me! Agreed overall. The 50 years argument got me the most. Yeah, back in the middle ages they used to burn cats in bags in public for superstitious reasons. So what does 50 years have to do with the price of eggs in China? Back then people didn't have phones with video and probably weren't dumb enough to tape themselves doing crimes.

Also, the term "virtue signaling" was tacked on there for no reason. You could claim someone is virtue signaling anytime they judge behavior as immoral.

"yeah, that judge that gave me 5 years for arson....was such a virtue signaling sonofabiscuit......"

Virtue signaling is typically used when people make a huge public deal in a way to draw attention to themselves and what they are upset about is something minor (the girl's aisle in a toy store had too many pink baby dolls and that is sexist).

I stand corrected, I did research and found that there is substantial evidence of a “link” between animal violence and almost all other forms of Violence.

I’m not trying to defend these kids and what they did, it was terrible. I was just reading through the thread and saw people saying stuff like “I hope these kids rot in jail”. That just bothered me. I think they should be punished severely and I hope it turns them around and they can become good citizens. That is all I am trying to say, don’t want to see young peoples lives ruined, for making stupid decisions.

Agreed, and thanks for clarifying that. We're all friends here, and sometimes friends disagree and get into somewhat heated debates!

A friend of my brother got caught drinking a beer on some railroad tracks in high school and got sent to juvenile prison. In that facility he met real criminals and was abused by staff and other prisoners. It ruined his life and no one knows where he is now, but hopefully he improves at some point. So I get what you are saying.

Raisins, that happens in our system quite a bit. Our system is far from perfect and many times and places corrupt. Take good people that made a dumb mistake and punish them to the point it makes them criminals or wrecks their life forever. But the judges and attorneys got paid and that is all that matters sometimes.

It doesn't help that the only thing that politicians from across the aisle seem able to agree upon now is to "get tough on crime" and also to limit or make more expensive via taxation anything consider a vice (alcohol, cigarettes, e-cigs, gambling, etc.). So, this is what they seem to focus on if they want something passed and regarding these things you end up with more and more strict laws each year. The problem is that there has to be a "sweet spot" where you are tough enough but things still make sense. If laws only get more complex and strict, then we are guaranteed to overshoot. I'm sure many of us see this in the regulations regarding our careers.

I think it was Bentham in the UK a long time ago that laws have to make sense for people to believe in the court system. I think he mentioned stealing a horse as being a crime where you could get the death penalty. Maybe in some situations it should be, but in those where it was not people no longer believed in the law and so everyone worked around.

Typing that got me to reflect that maybe the kids that tortured that deer only deserve a 1 to 3 years, I don't know. Their punishment should sting but how much is the question.

[DEERSLAYER]

There are numerous problems with our prisons but perhaps the biggest is that people are not being helped. I have heard they have a saying in prison that the age you go in is the age you come out (mentally). 10 years, 20 years or whatever. You go in at 19 you come out at 19 psychologically. People need to be punished for doing things they did & may need to be put away because they are a danger to society, but they also need to be taught & helped to understand why you do & don't do things. They need to learn how to function in society. Otherwise a large % just end up committing more and/or worse crimes & end up back in prison or dead. A few years in prison may teach them they shouldn't do THAT particular thing again, but it should go deeper than that. They need to get help & learn the things they should have learned before like compassion, empathy, respect, critical thinking skills, self analysis, etc, etc. I think society is failing badly in numerous ways. Starting with parenting, but where they were failed there must be another way to help them for everyone's sake.

[raisins]

There are numerous problems with our prisons but perhaps the biggest is that people are not being helped. I have heard they have a saying in prison that the age you go in is the age you come out (mentally). 10 years, 20 years or whatever. You go in at 19 you come out at 19 psychologically. People need to be punished for doing things they did & may need to be put away because they are a danger to society, but they also need to be taught & helped to understand why you do & don't do things. They need to learn how to function in society. Otherwise a large % just end up committing more and/or worse crimes & end up back in prison or dead. A few years in prison may teach them they shouldn't do THAT particular thing again, but it should go deeper than that. They need to get help & learn the things they should have learned before like compassion, empathy, respect, critical thinking skills, self analysis, etc, etc. I think society is failing badly in numerous ways. Starting with parenting, but where they were failed there must be another way to help them for everyone's sake.

Absolutely all of this.

My cousin is a nurse practitioner in a federal high security prison. He talks about how prisoners are given solitary confinement as a punishment until it makes them insane and many never come back to normal after enough of it. They will actually do more bad in solitary in order to have people tackle them because it means some human interaction.

Even if you have zero compassion for a prisoner, if these people do not have life sentences and will be out on the streets someday, does it serve the public to treat them in a way (solitary, etc) that is nearly guaranteed to make them (even more?) mentally ill and unstable?

[crankn101]

LOL

[DEERSLAYER]

LOL

What or who are you mocking now?