Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

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RDubs44
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby RDubs44 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:26 am

I wish MN would push back their Gun Opening weekend.

It is the first weekend usually. This year due to the calendar it was the second weekend. I enjoyed the quiet weekend in November w/out gun shots.

Just my 2 cents.


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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby RidgeGhost » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:42 am

Virginia opens muzzleloader the first Saturday of November for two weeks, then three weeks of rifle, then three weeks of muzzleloader. That varies a little depending on the county, but it's all at least that bad. Also, three buck tags.

Virginia did not get any license money from me this year.

Dont let your state go down that slippery slope. I dont think you can ever come back from it.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby d_rek » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:47 am

This bill is insane and I let my local state rep know how I felt about it.

I think we're going to see a lot of crazy legislation floated through the house and senate to try and stop the bleed out from reduced hunter paticipation.

Unfortunately most of these bills are not actually going to improve the 'quality' of the Michigan deer hunting experience, which is sorely what is needed to both retain hunters and increase revenue streams from new and non-resident hunters. Quality hunting for me is defined as: Access to land, opportunities at game animals, improved age structure of herds, better herd doe-buck ratio balance, trophy game management, limited firearms and limited muzzleloading seasons, elimination of some special seasons, among others. I know my definition is not everyone else's.

It's clear to me that the current strategy is a losing one and has only yielded YoY drops in hunter participation. Nobody is asking for an extended gun season. Heck we already basically have 1 month of firearms between general firearms and muzzleloading in Zone 3. Add late antlerless to that and it's more like 1.5 months. What we need is a new vision for whitetail herd management in Michigan, not more of the same.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby Dewey » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:59 am

Kraftd wrote:Not to up on MI politics and the nuances of their management but is there any reason being thrown around for considering this? Gun crowd not wanting all those darn bowhunters killing all their bucks during the rut?

Quite honestly, I'm a little torn. Immediate reaction is like many others, thinking its ridiculous, but at the same time, anything to increase hunter recruitment and involvement isn't necessarily bad...

Problem is none of these changes do anything to recruit more hunters. All they do is alienate current hunters and the end result is less tags bought.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby d_rek » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:04 am

Dewey wrote:All they do is alienate current hunters and the end result is less tags bought.


Correct. The delta between new ones entering the sport and those dropping off is not insignificant.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby Kraftd » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:10 am

Dewey wrote:
Kraftd wrote:Not to up on MI politics and the nuances of their management but is there any reason being thrown around for considering this? Gun crowd not wanting all those darn bowhunters killing all their bucks during the rut?

Quite honestly, I'm a little torn. Immediate reaction is like many others, thinking its ridiculous, but at the same time, anything to increase hunter recruitment and involvement isn't necessarily bad...

Problem is none of these changes do anything to recruit more hunters. All they do is alienate current hunters and the end result is less tags bought.


Yeah, probably didn't articulate that well. Fully agree that this doesn't get to the heart of issues with hunter numbers (general societal laziness being a prime one), in some ways at least the issue is being considered and we're not just being left for dead though I suppose.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby Ack » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:57 am

Something that doesn’t get mentioned, is that even though our hunter numbers have been steadily falling for several years, we STILL have more hunters than a lot of the other states. Guess it’s a huge problem though. :roll:
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby Lastcast#1 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:54 am

It would be very easy to write 10 pages of why this idea is ridiculous. Goodbye Nov 5. Frankly for me I would go a step furthur and quit bowhunting Michigan all together.

Hunter recruitment. The idea that guns, and or more days to use them create and retain more hunters is absurd. There are much more effective means we could be using here to recruit more hunters. Michigan just doesnt employ any of them.



Guns for 2 months. What the bleep!
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby Spiceman » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:16 pm

I am a Michigan hunter who was already considering every possible way to hunt out of state. Consider it a done deal if this passes.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby mipubbucks24 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:17 pm

Lastcast#1 wrote:It would be very easy to write 10 pages of why this idea is ridiculous. Goodbye Nov 5. Frankly for me I would go a step furthur and quit bowhunting Michigan all together.

Hunter recruitment. The idea that guns, and or more days to use them create and retain more hunters is absurd. There are much more effective means we could be using here to recruit more hunters. Michigan just doesnt employ any of them.



Guns for 2 months. What the bleep!



I’m not arguing that this is a good idea, it’s a terrible idea. I’m just wondering what the “much more effective means” to increase Hunter recruitment would be?
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby Lastcast#1 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:58 pm

mipubbucks24 wrote:
Lastcast#1 wrote:It would be very easy to write 10 pages of why this idea is ridiculous. Goodbye Nov 5. Frankly for me I would go a step furthur and quit bowhunting Michigan all together.

Hunter recruitment. The idea that guns, and or more days to use them create and retain more hunters is absurd. There are much more effective means we could be using here to recruit more hunters. Michigan just doesnt employ any of them.



Guns for 2 months. What the bleep!



I’m not arguing that this is a good idea, it’s a terrible idea. I’m just wondering what the “much more effective means” to increase Hunter recruitment would be?


I suppose my response sounded like I am carrying around the silver bullet to fix the falling number of hunters in Michigan. I apologize for that, I definitely do not.But heres my thoughts on the matter and what I would like to see done.

1. I am not against the youth hunt But if its purpose is meant to
recruit then I would like that same early opportunity made available to first time tag buyers of any age who have completed hunters safety. They hunt with a mentor. Why just the kids? We need to target the 25 to 45 age group of adults. Why? because many will have the financial means to become a hunter tomorrow if they have a positive introduction into the sport.

The problem is not the availability of seasons, or weapons. Its the lack of an official connection between those who want to give hunting a try, and those that are willing to help.

Hunters make more hunters. Its gotta be a grass roots deal.. An experienced hunter provides the avenue to get to the field. That is the most difficult hurdle for someone considering hunting I believe.

I dont think we do a good enough job of marketing all of the reasons people hunt aside from dead deer, and what weapon was used. The non hunting public really is clueless. They think deer hunting is some fat dude with a gun sittin on a case of beer in the woods. This group of people, those who do not hunt, but are not against it, is where our greatest opportunity lies to educate, introduce, and retain.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby mipubbucks24 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:25 pm

Lastcast#1 wrote:
mipubbucks24 wrote:
Lastcast#1 wrote:It would be very easy to write 10 pages of why this idea is ridiculous. Goodbye Nov 5. Frankly for me I would go a step furthur and quit bowhunting Michigan all together.

Hunter recruitment. The idea that guns, and or more days to use them create and retain more hunters is absurd. There are much more effective means we could be using here to recruit more hunters. Michigan just doesnt employ any of them.



Guns for 2 months. What the bleep!



I’m not arguing that this is a good idea, it’s a terrible idea. I’m just wondering what the “much more effective means” to increase Hunter recruitment would be?


I suppose my response sounded like I am carrying around the silver bullet to fix the falling number of hunters in Michigan. I apologize for that, I definitely do not.But heres my thoughts on the matter and what I would like to see done.

1. I am not against the youth hunt But if its purpose is meant to
recruit then I would like that same early opportunity made available to first time tag buyers of any age who have completed hunters safety. They hunt with a mentor. Why just the kids? We need to target the 25 to 45 age group of adults. Why? because many will have the financial means to become a hunter tomorrow if they have a positive introduction into the sport.

The problem is not the availability of seasons, or weapons. Its the lack of an official connection between those who want to give hunting a try, and those that are willing to help.

Hunters make more hunters. Its gotta be a grass roots deal.. An experienced hunter provides the avenue to get to the field. That is the most difficult hurdle for someone considering hunting I believe.

I dont think we do a good enough job of marketing all of the reasons people hunt aside from dead deer, and what weapon was used. The non hunting public really is clueless. They think deer hunting is some fat dude with a gun sittin on a case of beer in the woods. This group of people, those who do not hunt, but are not against it, is where our greatest opportunity lies to educate, introduce, and retain.



Good points and I agree with all of what you said, probably some of the better ideas I have seen.

For my own selfish reasons I wish the season was longer but not the gun season. I wish bow started in the middle or beginning of September, and I wish the opener of gun season was pushed back to the Saturday of thanksgiving. Have it go for 3 weeks, then let muzzleloader go the rest of December. I don’t know just my own opinion. Gun season ruins deer hunting for me in Michigan. Without good private to hunt I have seen so few bucks after the first couple of days of gun. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby Lastcast#1 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:12 pm

Oh I hear ya for sure. I have my dream selfish regs. I dont gun hunt. :). I took 4 new hunters out for spring turkey. What convinced them to give it a try had nothing to do with killing a turkey, or a deer.

What convinced them was listening to me speak passionately about the "experience". To set aside your preconceived stereotypes and just give it a try. We need hunters, like the ones on here who are truly passionate and actually love the animals they pursue to convey this passion while selling the experience to the non-hunting public.

Many already have the foundation to become a hunter. They love the outdoors, they bike, hike, fish . They are pursuing the experience of being in the outdoors. Bowhunting is so many things. So many ingrediants. go into the recipe that makes a hunter. Yep, everyones is different. Thats why we all love it.

Simply ask someone you know or even better, someone you dont , who does not hunt but who does pursue other outdoor activities, hey man why dont you give bowhunting a try? You would be amazed at the answers. These answers are often opportunities for a potential hunter to be born.

There is a disconnect between the non hunting public and the fact that hunting is an act of conservation. Into the future I believe we need to really market hunting to younger folks as an athletic, skilled, pursuit. And most importantly the connection to the earth and its creatures. Passion sells hunting. Take the time to convey your passion to others. Forget about the " eye roller"s . When you see a light go off in someones head, well this is where hunters make hunters or well, to put it bluntly, they dont. Because the next step takes some time and sacrifice.


In Michigan we are very lucky to have a heaping amount of public land. It is full of opportunity. We have to connect people who didnt grow up within a hunting family with these opportunities.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby 218er » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:48 pm

An extra 10 days on the front end of rifle season in the rut? Good luck. Minnesota borders Wisconsin, obviously. For the most part they have similar terrain, ag areas, forested areas, etc. One dwarfs the other in terms of p&y, b&c bucks, etc. I wonder why? Mn rifle season opens about the 1st Saturday In November where as Wisconsin opens tomorrow. Those weeks have a substantial difference on the age class of the herd. I’m pretty sure Wisconsin technically has more hunting pressure than Minnesota. It sounds like Michigan might have more pressure than it at least similar to Wisconsin. Changing the start of the Michigan rifle season would probably just dilute the experience for current license buyers. Sounds like a major bummer.
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Re: Bill would open Michigan gun season on Nov 5th instead of the 15th.

Unread postby trob_205 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:06 pm

:doh:


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