Whitetail movement Influencers

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DaveT1963
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Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:28 am

Lots of post as of late on what will "affect" deer movement. Here is MO only of what truly affects buck movement:

#1 - Food; for most of the year this will always be the biggest influencer - if food is scarce they tend to move more; if it is over abundant they will only move as far as needed.

#2 - SEX - yep oct - Jan sex still reigns as #1 for most bucks - I only listed food because it influences bucks more the other 9 months - that and deer still have to ear during rut.

#3 - Pressure: the more there is the more selective they are in when and how they move and it can quickly trump #1 & #2.

#4 - ?????? everything else is subservient to the above and has little to do with movement in any substantial way.

If there is plenty of food, plenty of sex and zero pressure deer will move whenever they feel like it - go sit in a city park with no hunting pressure and deer will come eat whenever, even taking food directly from humans. Wind, weather, moon, sun, etc.... go on 365 days a year and while it might influence deer in extremes and in miniscule amounts, it just isn't a good predicator of deer movement.

Since no HUMAN, can control the first 3 factors completely, or eliminate them from a study in the woods where we actually hunt - everything else is speculation and what we see )experience) is what we tend to want to believe. however, that does not make it factual. Deer, even mature bucks, fall every single day of the entire hunting season. Focus on the first three and I guarantee your results go up. Neglect them while putting faith in all the rest is not a solid approach IMO.


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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby Bowfisher » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:47 am

I agree with those being the top factors to focus on, but to neglect weather seems absurd to me. To me there is an undeniable correlation between weather and whitetails. Piggybacking off your park example, I live very close to a park that is thousands of acres, zero hunting, and completely overrun with deer. Drive around on an October day when it is 80 degrees vs a 45 degree day..

Those days have the same food around, same amount of pressure, same sex drive based on time of year, you tell me which day you think you'll see more deer.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby elk yinzer » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:53 am

I can't feasibly hunt even close to every day of the season, but I can be pretty flexible about when I take vacation or skip out of work early. It would be stupid not to use the weather forecasts to allocate my efforts to the best percentage days. Hot weather and hard rain, absolutely positively suppress deer movement. Swirling winds are a fact of life in hill country that ruin a high percentage of hunts. The rest of it, the moon stuff, imo is varying from iffy to baloney. Now Saturdays, sure I am going regardless, but when I have the flexibility I am using to my advantage. I assume that is where most of these inquiries come from.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby braveheart » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:03 am

Your post on What Influences Whitetail Movement is:
1) Obvious to some;
2) Good reminder to others;
3) Great information for new hunters;
4) Stimulates good conversation;
5) Valuable to all.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:17 am

Some folks read into what I said. I did not say you shouldn't consider weather when planning a hunt, nor did I say than in extremes it doesn't have any effect. I listed the three primary factors. Sex drive can trump food and every other factor to include weather. Food, for most of the year will trump sex and all other factors. Pressure can Trump any of them at times. Weather, moon, sun, etc.... will NOT trump the other three, the best they can do is augment or actuate them.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby Lockdown » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:42 am

DaveT1963 wrote:Some folks read into what I said. I did not say you shouldn't consider weather when planning a hunt, nor did I say than in extremes it doesn't have any effect. I listed the three primary factors. Sex drive can trump food and every other factor to include weather. Food, for most of the year will trump sex and all other factors. Pressure can Trump any of them at times. Weather, moon, sun, etc.... will NOT trump the other three, the best they can do is augment or actuate them.


First of all I always enjoy your posts and value your input. Valid points!

I don’t disagree, at all, with the three factors you listed. I do think that temperature deserves honorable mention. In general it’s minimal, but I don’t know how many times we’ve had a dang heat wave during rut and movement turns off. I’ve sat on stand in November in a t-shirt before. Those hunts *never seem to pan out. I wouldn’t want to run around in a winter coat when it’s 75 degrees either.

It’s no different than a winter storm late season. 25 degree temp drop and below zero temps it’s common to see all deer on their feet 30-60 minutes earlier than days prior.

That said, we have to look at the big picture when we swear by something. If I swear by the moon and I save all my best spots (or rut vacation) for the best condition during prime moon phase, I’m going to have most of my success during that time. If I never hunt when there’s no moon I’ll never have success when there’s no moon.

If I swear by days with high wind, and save my very best spots for high wind days, I will have more success on high wind days.

You are spot on with your statement of big bucks dying every day of the year. Hot, cold, high/low pressure, full moon no moon, windy or calm. If our tactics are sound we have a fighting chance.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:08 am

Lockdown wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:Some folks read into what I said. I did not say you shouldn't consider weather when planning a hunt, nor did I say than in extremes it doesn't have any effect. I listed the three primary factors. Sex drive can trump food and every other factor to include weather. Food, for most of the year will trump sex and all other factors. Pressure can Trump any of them at times. Weather, moon, sun, etc.... will NOT trump the other three, the best they can do is augment or actuate them.


First of all I always enjoy your posts and value your input. Valid points!

I don’t disagree, at all, with the three factors you listed. I do think that temperature deserves honorable mention. In general it’s minimal, but I don’t know how many times we’ve had a dang heat wave during rut and movement turns off. I’ve sat on stand in November in a t-shirt before. Those hunts *never seem to pan out. I wouldn’t want to run around in a winter coat when it’s 75 degrees either.

It’s no different than a winter storm late season. 25 degree temp drop and below zero temps it’s common to see all deer on their feet 30-60 minutes earlier than days prior.

That said, we have to look at the big picture when we swear by something. If I swear by the moon and I save all my best spots (or rut vacation) for the best condition during prime moon phase, I’m going to have most of my success during that time. If I never hunt when there’s no moon I’ll never have success when there’s no moon.

If I swear by days with high wind, and save my very best spots for high wind days, I will have more success on high wind days.

You are spot on with your statement of big bucks dying every day of the year. Hot, cold, high/low pressure, full moon no moon, windy or calm. If our tactics are sound we have a fighting chance.


Point #1: That's certainly our perception and yet fawn studies show that peak rut dates do not change. Let a hot doe walk by a buck in the most extreme heat and watch what he does. We relate it to weather but it could very well be that we just didn't see the rut activity where we were at. Even in the best of conditions, it gets almost comical online to hear how 10 hunters are seeing no rut activity and yet one says its the hottest action they've seen all year.

Point #2: If weather effected breeding TX would seldom have fawns in May/June as most bucks would wait until Late Jan/Feb when we have cooler temps to breed. Late season cold snaps is also driven by scarcity of food and the need to eat more to keep body temps up - thus they move more because they need to eat more - so IMO it is not the temp that causes the influence it is the need to move and eat more to keep body temp up and the food sources are nowhere near as available as in spring/summer - thus they travel more during daylight. bucks in particular are needing to recover from extreme body mass loss so they will move more. However, put pressure on the food source and watch what happens. BTW - sever drought can cause the same type movement patterns even to the point deer relocate..... once again it is more about the need for food IMO.

Like I said perception shapes our reality, and I am not doubting the validity that people believe what they see - but often we do not have all the facts.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby gsquared23 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:55 am

Eh, they’re definitely still breeding on hot days, but they’re doing it all or mostly at night which is the entire point. Nocturnal emissions don’t really help me fill a buck tag.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:19 pm

IMO movement patterns differ from the type area u hunt. In my case food is not a player. If Milo fields aren't overrun with dove hunters the deer bed in it early season. During acorn drop again food is everywhere they can eat all they want without standing up.

Biggest movement factors for me are:

1.) pressure! If u ever get a chance to hunt a place with no pressure sit back and enjoy the show. Deer move, all deer including old bucks. The more pressure they encounter the less they move.

2.) Breeding season. It's my opinion every buck will move atleast a few days in daylight during the rut. Also MO where they move in daylight is decided by the pressure they encountered during there nightly travels.

3.) Weather! Not rocket science to figure out when your cameras get blown up. A cold snap with drizzly weather at the right time of season is as good as it gets for me. Warm weather during the rut cheats u out of good hunting. Early morning/late evening still good but all day cruising comes to a halt. I agree breeding is done at the same time every year but I believe the weather controls what u witness in daylight.

Anyone of these are good on there own, but if u stack up a few of them things really get exciting.

Just my opinions and realize everybody has there own views. Just sharing mine for the sake of discussion.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby greenhorndave » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:38 pm

gsquared23 wrote:Eh, they’re definitely still breeding on hot days, but they’re doing it all or mostly at night which is the entire point. Nocturnal emissions don’t really help me fill a buck tag.

:lol:

Ok, that hilarious line aside, I really liked this post and responses. It adds more depth (and sex) that relate to one of my favorite quotes of all time on the Beast from the late, great Stanley: "Deer like to do two things: Eat and hide."

That's 1 and 3 right there. 3 directly impacts the hide part.

Appreciate the breakdown.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:56 pm

gsquared23 wrote:Eh, they’re definitely still breeding on hot days, but they’re doing it all or mostly at night which is the entire point. Nocturnal emissions don’t really help me fill a buck tag.


Eh most breeding is done during darkness, hot or cold. And I guarantee you pressure influences that far more then weather.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby Stingray713 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:11 pm

Here in Virginia starting around mid-November there are two main influences on movement

1) If dogs are chasing the deer, they will move, usually pretty fast

2) If dogs aren’t chasing them, you don’t see them moving, at any speed
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:22 pm

I'll stick to my 3. They are the primary influencers of why a deer does or does not move as much during daylight. Of course there are many factors that can trigger movement (weather, threats, etc..... ) but they all evolve around food, cover and sex for mature whitetail bucks. A storm front might trigger a food response, it very often triggers a scrape freshening response, but those are not the primary reason for the movement. I never said they should be ignored - but if that is where you place your focus you've missed a key piece of the puzzle. A cold front rolls through, so you realize it may trigger movement - however just plopping your but out anywhere may or may not accomplish anything. But if you link it to WHY he may be moving it can clue you in to where you should park your but. And assuming the weather is why you catch a buck on his feet is an educated guess at best - could have been a host of things. But forgetting to pay attention to the primary influencers (food, rutting factors, and pressure) will have a bigger effect on your hunt then whether or not a weather front moved through or if the moon is overhead. So many folks find sign and hunt it with out regard to when and why it was made. Hunting an open ridge that is full of rubs and scrapes in Nov is more than likely an absolute waste of time if PRESSURE is present. And I don't care if you have a 20 degree drop in temperature or if it is the brightest full moon and directly overhead. It also can be an absolute waste of time in early season or late season because the primary influencer is FOOD not SEX. And perhaps the sign was made during a 1 -2 week drop of acorns that have dried up. That's pretty fresh sign, hunt to your hearts content but if the DOES have moved because of a new primary FOOD source, good luck. Dan's island/oak scenarios are a classic example. That is a very specific primary food influence that you better hunt during that specific time. Wait for a cold front, wait for the moon to align, wait for magic pixie crap and you could very well miss it. you have to hunt it WHEN it is the primary influence not when conditions may or may not be better. Sure if you can link them all it could help - but once again the primary reason they are on that island is because of a primary food source or pressure not because of environmental factors. And if you get close enough to bedding the bucks move consistently during daylight - most miss it because IMO they are relying on weather to make them move further during daylight.


Boogieman example is classic. Why do you think they are bedded there in the first place? FOOD. Why are they still there LACK OF PRESSURE. Why will they get up early and eat in the middle of it - LACK OF PRESSURE, what happens when bird season opens - PRESSURE trumps FOOD. Take that food source away and you cant hunt that field until the cows come home and never see a single buck. Crop rotation is also another example in the Midwest. A new hunter goes out, finds all kinds of rut sign post season so picks out several stands based off some tremendous scrapes, rubs and bedding. Not realizing it was a corn year, the following season he does some late summer scouting and glasses several mature bucks in the bean fields, and checks and sees nice primary scrapes and rub lines opening up in Sept. So he decides to wait for the first good cold front in Oct to move into his best stand. NOTHING. Why? It is mid October and the bucks are obviously beginning rut mode. The simple fact is that the beans have yellowed and the DOES moved to another FOOD source. Well guess what, the bucks, with two of their three primary influences having changed, has moved. I don't care how many cold fronts you wait on, or how overhead a moon is, you can sit that stand on the best of CONDITIONS and the odds a mature buck will move through is slim. So the hunter sits it 3-4 times and gives up on the stand and goes looking elsewhere. the season comes and goes. That Next Spring, he goes back to scouting and finds tremendous sign right back where he found the original sign and had hunted. WHY? because once again, corn was cut and cleaned up, and beans became a primary late season food source for both does and bucks. Add in the second and third rut. The does relocated because of a primary food source change... the bucks changed because FOOD changed and the primary attraction (DOES) also moved. Happens all the time.

Anyway - just my thoughts and opinions - your mileage may vary.
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:40 am

Dave I'm not sure if I understand the topic here. Are we talking what encourages DAYLIGHT movement or what deer need for survival? Honestly I haven't heard anyone other than the Drury's and salesmen selling plot seed and tractor equipment preach this much on food. Personally has no bearing on what I do and I put it right up there with moon guides and black rattling antlers to get a buck to move in daylight.

Why do I think they are bedded there in the first place? Because in unpressured areas deer are lazy and they bed in the food for the sole purpose of not having to move. Yep lack of pressure is why the are there and why I had pressure #1

Will they eat in it during the day? Yep but I don't see what good that is for any movement or hunting purpose.


I know of 2 bucks at the moment that are both hunkered down at 2 diff abondoned small farms. Just tall grass and buck brush. Come dark they jump the fence, cross the road and travel a mile to food. So I don't see how the hot food source is relevant for hunting purpose or daylight movement. But come rut my #2 it drags them out. This is when guys will get daylight pics of good bucks they have yet seen while hunting the ole apple tree. The only other time I see older deer move early in relation to food is due to weather.

In reguards to weather.... Ask a northerner which part of the season u see deer piled on food. My guess it's late season when weather changes and deers metabolism speeds up and force them to gorge themselves. Other than that I just don't see it. Jmo of course but in pressured areas survival rules and they can careless what's on the menu until after dark. I mean if food is the number one player for daylight movement why in the heck are guys crawling through swamps, looking for beds miles away from food?
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Re: Whitetail movement Influencers

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:04 am

Boogieman1 wrote:Dave I'm not sure if I understand the topic here. Are we talking what encourages DAYLIGHT movement or what deer need for survival? Honestly I haven't heard anyone other than the Drury's and salesmen selling plot seed and tractor equipment preach this much on food. Personally has no bearing on what I do and I put it right up there with moon guides and black rattling antlers to get a buck to move in daylight.

Why do I think they are bedded there in the first place? Because in unpressured areas deer are lazy and they bed in the food for the sole purpose of not having to move. Yep lack of pressure is why the are there and why I had pressure #1

Will they eat in it during the day? Yep but I don't see what good that is for any movement or hunting purpose.


I know of 2 bucks at the moment that are both hunkered down at 2 diff abondoned small farms. Just tall grass and buck brush. Come dark they jump the fence, cross the road and travel a mile to food. So I don't see how the hot food source is relevant for hunting purpose or daylight movement. But come rut my #2 it drags them out. This is when guys will get daylight pics of good bucks they have yet seen while hunting the ole apple tree. The only other time I see older deer move early in relation to food is due to weather.

In reguards to weather.... Ask a northerner which part of the season u see deer piled on food. My guess it's late season when weather changes and deers metabolism speeds up and force them to gorge themselves. Other than that I just don't see it. Jmo of course but in pressured areas survival rulesand they can careless what's on the menu until after dark. I mean if food is the number one player for daylight movement why in the heck are guys crawling through swamps, looking for beds miles away from food?


Don't know what to tell you boogieman1 - I think you are focused on what influences you as a HUNTER and not deer. Did you miss the part where I said Pressure can trump #1 and #2? Pressure can often move deer a mile away from where they are feeding.... lack of pressure and they might bed right next to the food source. Understanding that pressure at the FOOD source will put the smart guy closer to where they are not getting the pressure during daylight. Once again waiting for weather or moon times is not going to change that factor until pressure subsides.

My original post is about what primarily influences deer movement. If you do not consider food sources during anytime but early/late season as valuable info that's OK with me - to each their own. But IMO, a wise hunters will ALWAYS be tracking what the primary food sources are for the local deer population because during the rut DOES influence buck behavior and DOES ARE 100% influenced by food - with the added consideration of PRESSURE. A hunter can absolutely alter buck movement by disrupting doe feeding patterns during Oct, Nov, and even into Dec. Not everyone is sitting on an ag field waiting for deer to show before nightfall - even in the deep cover there are specific primary food choices (Acorns, maple, persimmon, apples, locust pods, etc.) that are major influences on where deer will be and when we might see them in daylight.

To me the best starting point of any scouting is always where are the deer feeding and when. That will clue you into where the deer may be bedding and when. Then I work towards where is the pressure. That is my primary concerns not the environmental factors. It used to be pretty common knowledge that a buck is ruled by his stomach and security needs nine months out of the year, and his groin and security the other three. Does are ruled by their stomach and security 12 months out of the year. And pressure is the wild card as it is not always present to the same degree.


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