First Year Beast Struggles, Point me in the Right Direction!

[seuss79]

I went on a short scouting trip after work that was restricted by time. There are more details about that in my other thread.
https://www.thehuntingbeast.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51596 This trip left me having some questions. I feel this needs its own thread.

Bear with me if you will, I may write a book. If you take the time to read my long winded post, thanks for staying with me. I'm trying to be as detailed as possible so there is no confusion as to what I am thinking.

I'd imagine this is the same for all beasts starting out. Trying to put it together. Each area is different and boots on the ground are the only way to confirm. After this year, I'm sure I will be much more experienced. I remember reading a recent thread about being in the game and actually not even in the stadium. Just wanting to start out in the right direction so I'm going towards the stadium.

Using topos and aerials in my area seems hard for me. I had just over an hour to scout last night. I just went with the closest edge and followed trails based on my short time slot there. I feel I understand what the topo lines mean. I just don't feel they jump out like a lot of other posts on here asking for map help.
Other map examples posted on here seem much more defined with less open CRP areas. My elevations are more subtle. It seems instead of points on high ground, points are usually lower in elevation. The places with more drastic elevation changes tend to be creek and ditch areas. Maybe I've just looked along the wrong hills. I have yet to focus on just elevation changes. I'm looking more for edges on the east, south, and north sides for those varying westerly winds.

Observation stands will probably be my primary sits this year because of the learning curve. My original thought was that I could set up somewhere neutral along one of the tree lines and watch the CRP fields to see where the deer would come out of bedding areas in a large area. After last night's short scouting trip, I now wonder if this is how you set up observation stands. The beds I found last night were just inside and on the edge of woods. Would it not be more likely for them to go into the woods instead of the field for food with no crop fields within a couple of miles? Of course pressure is just starting with scouting and cover is very thick right now. Things may change as the season progresses.

I know food and water are keys to finding out which way they are going to go. However without spending tons and tons of intrusive time I don't know where it is. This general area only has a few bean fields maybe a mile or two away. So besides natural browse in CRP style fields, It will be hard to guess where deer travel will be. I've yet to find a location that has been noticably browsed ever in my lifetime from deer. Maybe this year will be the first. We'll see.

I'm hoping you experienced Beasts can help mentor me. I've bought the videos and thought I understood all of it. Now after what scouting I've been able to do, I'm not so sure. Think northern half of IL. Pretty much flat. Very few large woods. Pub. parcels of 3000 acres or less. Many are less than 500. I'd say high hunting pressure.

[Bman409]

I'm running in to the same thing.. hunting flat large chunks of woods (a mile by a mile at least).. inside the woods are transition lines between thick secondary growth and the taller mature oak and maple woods.. I know that deer probably bed in the thick and come out to feed in the acorns and woods.. but that could be anywhere.. tough to find beds in such a large "thicket".

I don't really have pinch points so to speak.. if I figure out how to do it I'll post a photo.. but I don't want to hijack the thread either.

[Smitty]

I’m still learning as well but I feel starting out observation sits are beneficial and move from there if you can, but I think the more you can scout the better off you’ll be I’ve done more scouting this past year and have finally built up enough confidence that if there is deer on properties i knew where to find them I get right in there by the sign and try hard to understand it as finding the sign and developing a plan to hunt it can be a little different. The more ground I see the easier mapping gets I’ll go back and look at maps I’ve looked at before and things I’ve never noticed start popping out at me. Realistically I’m probably burning some areas for the current year and hurting my immediate success on certain properties but I feel I am setting myself up for more success and better understanding in the long run. So the way I’m learning best is to scout Much more than I hunt.

[fishlips]

Sounds like you are heading in the right direction. You have to be patient with yourself with this type of hunting.

Observation stands are good but don't be afraid to go in and bust stuff out. It may sound a bit crazy but it will build your confidence if/when you start bumping deer you are after. It won't help your hunting this year necessarily but it will help you figure out what to look for and have something to go back to when conditions repeat themselves. At the end of the day you are going to bump deer with this style of hunting. You have to be ok with that and more importantly learn what you can when you bump those deer.

[Bman409]

Sounds like you are heading in the right direction. You have to be patient with yourself with this type of hunting.

Observation stands are good but don't be afraid to go in and bust stuff out. It may sound a bit crazy but it will build your confidence if/when you start bumping deer you are after. It won't help your hunting this year necessarily but it will help you figure out what to look for and have something to go back to when conditions repeat themselves. At the end of the day you are going to bump deer with this style of hunting. You have to be ok with that and more importantly learn what you can when you bump those deer.

This is pretty helpful, at least for me.. I've been caught in the dilemna of "should I scout for buck bed or is it too late in the season"? .. but honestly, now that I think about it, what do I have to lose?? Worst case scenario: I bust some big bucks off their bed and they don't come back this year... BUT.. now I've got bona fide bed locations (along with wind and weather), AND.. come November I can shoot some doe or a small buck, same as I've done for about 15 out of the last 20 years anyway....

so I really don't lose anything.. if anything I gain intel for next year.

Thanks!

[stash59]

Agree with fishlips. With all of the old talk about staying out of bedding/security areas. It's easy to be afraid of bumping everything into the next county. If the bedding is as good as it should be. The mature bucks often just think everything just worked fine. I wouldn't go sit right in the beds this time of year. But jumping a buck or 2 out isn't always a total lose.

Other thing is if deer are feeding on forbes, usually mixed in at ground level in CRP. Browsing will be hard to detect. Lots of piles of poo may indicate they are feeding there. And more subtle transitions may still be hard to detect even boots on the ground. At first. But seeing/finding alot of buck sign should point to travel corridors. Which may help to find bedding.

[Smitty]

46A85E65-A09B-4B5A-8557-98EDD33A8F8E.jpeg

77F92801-88A5-4642-8506-B053ED23534D.jpeg

You mentioned topo lines not being so defined check out the small circle topo line on the right looks like just a smaller hill but this is actually a much bigger elevation change than I thought it would be just something not to overlook in future scouts.

[Rob loper]

https://youtu.be/wZQ7lcnTW3w

[Uncle Lou]

Don't be afraid to make some mistakes and learn from them. If your struggling, just try to have fun, ease up and go shoot something. Sometimes we put too much pressure on ourselves.

[seuss79]

Sounds like you are heading in the right direction. You have to be patient with yourself with this type of hunting.

Observation stands are good but don't be afraid to go in and bust stuff out. It may sound a bit crazy but it will build your confidence if/when you start bumping deer you are after. It won't help your hunting this year necessarily but it will help you figure out what to look for and have something to go back to when conditions repeat themselves. At the end of the day you are going to bump deer with this style of hunting. You have to be ok with that and more importantly learn what you can when you bump those deer.

I think you got the nail on the head.

I got carried away reading the in season scouting topic. I found it before reading the replies here. I would have replied last night but wanted to get through all 14 pages of that. I wish I would have seen that before I posted this. I'm still needing map help/confirmation that I'm choosing terrain correctly when not as many elevation changes exist.

The in season scouting thread seems to click with me. If observation stands are obscured by too thick of bedding cover, odds are I'd be wasting a hunt just setting up and watching general areas. It makes more sense to me to scout with stand on back and bow in hand during season until I find that "hot sign."
Then set up and consider this a hunt/observation stand.

backstrap19's post in that thread makes perfect sense. That thread is gold for getting my mind right when going in blind.

Here's the link for anyone that reads this hoping to find the answers I'm seeking:
http://www.thehuntingbeast.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46266-

backstrap19

Re: In-season scouting

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 7:42 am

I am fully committed to in season scouting more this year. I anticipate there being nights after work where I never hang a stand, but instead I walk my bow and stand around in search of the right sign to hunt. In the past, I may have been uptight or frustrated by never getting in a tree, however, if a cruise an area for 2 hours and cant' find any good sign worth hunting, wouldn't I have wasted my time up a tree anyhow? If the effort is going to be made to get out and hunt, shouldn't I hunt in the highest percentage chance that I can put myself into?

Another point is the concern that me cruising through an area will ruin it. maybe i get too close to bedding, maybe I bump a good buck and he shifts his pattern, maybe my scent all over alters deer movement. All of these points are possible. Here is how i'm rationalizing it in my head. Let's say there are 5 good bucks in 5 different spots on public land on the 2 counties that I hunt. I have literally a hundred spots picked out to hunt, but let's say only 5 of these areas hold a big mature buck. Now let's say I in season scout through the many areas I have identified to hunt, and I end up pretty much blowing up 2 of the areas by wandering around in it scouting. On the other side of the coin, let's say I identify 3 of the 5 buck areas and the hot sign and i am able to hunt high percentage hunts on a mature buck every time i climb a tree.

the way i see it, i didn't spend as much time wasted in a tree in the "wrong" spot, and even though i compromised 2 spots, I had myself on 3 great bucks in high percentage setups that I can stay on as long as the sign stays hot. If i told you you could be hunting hot sign of 3 diff bucks a few times this year, you'd jump on it, wouldn't you? so would i.

again, this is all speculation and "what if", but it is how i'm approaching in season scouting mentally this season. it may not work for you, but if you want to do it and you were struggling with coming to terms with it, perhaps this will help you.

[The Silence]

I hunt pretty open farm country and had really been struggling trying close the noose on some of the bucks that I knew were down there. The last couple years I have been soaking trail cameras for longer periods of time to see when suspected travel corridors were being used and IF they are being used much at all in general. The one thing that has helped me the last year is to count on the big boys to take very few to no chances about moving out in the open especially when they are traveling from doe bedding area to doe bedding area or even leaving cover at all until dark into open fields. They are secretive creatures. I'm also trying to go out after we've gotten some rain to take a look at field edges and river/ drainage crossings for big hoof prints. I also went out last year when we had snow to look around at travel patterns and recent beds that hadn't been covered over by new snow. I did this after hunting season but you could do that in-season if that was safe to do.