PredatorTC THP podcast

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UofLbowhunter
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Re: PredatorTC THP podcast

Unread postby UofLbowhunter » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:17 am

stash59 wrote:
Lockdown wrote:
cspot wrote:
PredatorTC wrote:
live2hunt wrote:Listened to this for the second time today. Really great stuff! I liked the comment about how we are looking for non pressured areas by sight but deer are seeking areas without human scent by smell. Joe also mentioned how some bucks survive by not doing the same thing consistently. Can’t remember exactly how he said it but I often think about these bucks with inconsistent patterns as outlaws. If an outlaw drove the same road and robbed the same banks along that road everyday he wouldn’t be an outlaw very long (food source)If an outlaw stood out in front of a grocery store selling moonshine everyday then drove straight home they wouldn’t be an outlaw anymore (bedding). If an outlaw was dating a girl who lived next door to the police station he wouldn’t be a outlaw very long (the rut) They would all be caught with these examples. The great outlaws have a way of throwing the law off their trail with elusive inconsistent patterns yet still remain right under their nose the whole time. Not sure how I came up with this correlation 8-) I started scouting with this in the back of my mind so I’m always trying to figure out what makes this deer different to survive. So when you find what makes an old deer different that is usually the consistent thing that becomes his weakness. Just wish I were better at figuring that thing out!


I love this^^ I like this deep objective way of thinking. The term "outlaw" is great, I may have to steal it from you! I wonder if the reason that some deer adapt to this way of living is because they figure out that this is the way that they get harassed less? Or is it just the personality that they have and that it's in their DNA. These big deer figure this stuff out pretty fast. Years ago, I chased an old deer with a unique personality. I could shine him every night in a corner field from either an east and west road or the intersecting north and south road. I could shine almost the entire field from these two angles. In the beginning, he was always by the road. After I and others shined him a few times, he learned that he could walk to a certain spot in the field where you could just hardly make him out. Pretty soon, he was never by the roads. He would just spend his summer nights in this spot where spot-lighters couldn't see him and it was hardly worth pulling up the binoculars to figure out what he was. The funny thing about his is that there is a new buck in town this year that I've been shinning. Same darn thing, different area. Begging of the summer, hes right in the open. Now, hes found a spot in the field where you darn near have to stand on your head on the roof of the truck to get a light on him and when you do, he squats down or takes off. These deer adapt faster than humans in some ways. If they don't, they probably don't make it to maturity and only the smart survive. Deer personalities fascinate me.


I have seen that a lot with shining around me. Always felt that if you really want to see a good buck and be able to take the time to really look at it, then you need to shine early when few others are. By now it is usually tough to get a light on one that is close to the road or that will stand still for a minute to let you have a look.


This is extremely similar to what I have seen the big farm land bucks do around here during daylight. It’s very flat in most areas, yet there are little dips in the fields here and there. You don’t even realize they’re there while driving by or glassing. I’m convinced that these bucks CONSISTENTLY utilize these little depressions. That’s why I’ve learned to get out of the truck and observe. My sightings go way up when I do.

There are mile roads on most section lines here. You can see a ton of ground, so there aren’t many places to hide. I don’t know how many times I’ve investigated an area as best I can then came up empty handed for shooter bucks. Then rut and gun season comes and someone shoots a good buck. :whistle: Well where was he hiding all summer :think:

In much the same way you guys mention bucks wising up to shining, these bucks wise up to vehicles stopping to stare at them. Or sadly, shoot at them or run them down during season. They KNOW where they can be seen and where they can’t.

Most often when you stop, they take off. If they hang out where they’re visible they’re constantly getting bothered by traffic. I’ve watched deer many times while observing or on stand while a car drives down the road. If they can see it, they get much more nervous than if they know they’re hidden. It’s obvious in their body language.

They’re masters at staying JUST out of sight, because it’s less stressful for them.


Where I grew up, there were a few families that poached out cars in the summer. I've observed alot of deer. That would feed in open areas in sight of the roads. As soon as they heard a vehicle coming down the gravel. They would casually head to the nearest cover. Get hidden before the vehicle arrived. Then wait until the coast was clear. And casually make their way back into the field to feed. Course the bigger mature bucks seemed to be the first deer to react to the sound of a car coming!



See these things in ky as well, by the time the opener gets goin glassing is pretty much useless! They hide anywhere they can and almost go nocturnal, around road sides anyway!


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First Sit
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Re: PredatorTC THP podcast

Unread postby First Sit » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:38 am

PredatorTC wrote:
Arrowbender wrote:Great job Joe.

Could you expand on “Sweet Spot” a little. I grasp the where.
Maybe not so much the why. Probably has to do with great cover on both sides of the fence, but actually more pressure on the public side?

And also...I feel like you sound super hesitant to alert bucks with early season activity, yet realize they tolerate it enough for several bump/dump type scenarios later.
My logic seems the opposite.
I understand that any activity could be that final straw. Just can’t wrap my head around not going in hot early also.
Not questioning your results.....trying to better mine!

Thank You!!!!


I apologize for the delayed response. I had a response all typed up the other day and my phone errored out. Yeesh!

But thank you for the kind words, you yourself should get on a podcast imo! I think the content would be great.

So with the “sweet spot”, here’s what I am seeing. If you ever go look at the border of a refuge opening day of gun season, it will be lined with hunters.. They sit right on the edge to the point where they can see into the refuge. It’s kind of that private land fence sitting mentally. “The closer I can get to the prime private, the better.” They sit so close together that it’s not uncommon for them to fight over who shot what deer. So let’s use the refuge that I’m thinking of which I will call the factory. This factory has 100 acres of hardwoods, parking lot and the buildings. No one can hunt there or even walk into this refuge unless they’re an employee and even they can’t walk around the property and spook deer. They go from their cars into the building. The people in this factory refuge talk about and take pics of the giant deer they see from their vehicles and from the buildings. The deer inside of here essentially have zero human pressure. A fully mature deer will watch a human walk to their vehicle from only 100 yards away or so. They just stand there in broad daylight So with this refuge being so small (only 100 acres) no deer lives 100% inside of it. Most of them end up in the hands of some happy hunter one way or another when they make a mistake. The thing is, they have a change to get old. The deer have no problem leaving the refuge in early season and holding up outside of it a few miles or maybe/rarely a few hundred yards depending upon pressure and terrain. The one place that you really don’t see any big deer holding up is right on that line. Even bow hunters sit these lines pretty heavy and the deer seem to learn pretty fast that it’s not safe to be on the border of the refuge. I believe that what is happening is that these deer leave these sanctuary’s mostly in early season and at night, but only go so far. They bed outside of the refuge in early because pressure is low and because of crops and food imo and that’s where this sweet spot is. You end up having some giant deer that can survive because when the pressure is on, they have a safe place to go and get old. I think that these spots are dictated by both pressure and obviously, they just need to have the features that big deer like. If you ever walk a refuge line you are very likely to find trail cameras and garbage all along that line. People get pics of giants, but don’t realize the deer are wise to them and that heavy line of scent and danger. These spots have a tendency of being better than other public land in the area because other areas can be hunted to easily and driven out. Deer just don’t survive and get old when they can be driven out. They need a place to get old and that’s what the refuges do. It’s hard to have a target buck in these spots because you can never chase them down. Their safe spot is where you can’t hunt them. You have to catch them by complete surprise. I hunt a very pressured area, so I would be curious to see if this scenario is similar in say big hill country. I would imagine to some degree or another.

I’ve seen all this happen with specific deer which has really solidified my observations. People from inside of the factory have sent me photos of the same deer that I have seen outside of that factory. I had one buck in a different refuge that I could run trail cameras in. I chased him for many years, and I would be onto him in the early and late season in the “sweet spot”. During the rut and gun season, I would get photos of him two miles away in the refuge. He got old that way until a doe pulled got the best of him.

I hope that makes sense, I kind of rambled because I think that there is a lot to it to be understood and I wanted to touch on as much as possible.


In regards to not going in hot early season, I don’t think I explained myself very well. It’s too easy to leave out important details when I’m talking on a podcast. When I’m typing, I can think it out slowly and explain better lol. I was referring to my summer scouting and my target deer. In the summer, I stay out as much as I can and glass from the distance. Whenever I find a target deer, I’m watching from hills, ridges, or in trees if everything is flat. I bounce around at any and every angle that I can that won’t alert the deer. I’m trying to get a pattern on what a target buck is doing without ever walking through his feeding or bedding area and leaving scent everywhere. I used to glass a buck once and go throw trail cameras up to see what he was doing, but that hurt me more than helped me. I like to watch from the distance and stay out 100% until its kill time. However, there is a HUGE balance of having no clue as to what’s going on and not knowing enough for opening day vs having a good solid bead on him and knowing what he’s up to. If opening weekend is a fail, I’m diving in hot just as you mentioned. I do a stupid amount of scouting for opening weekend. After that, everything goes out the window and it’ boots on the ground


To add on this the states I hunt bucks have refuge in 2 ways private that's not hunted or public that's listed as refuge no entry. The boarders of these are hammered and most deer know this some of the boarders have nicknames such as blood alley etc. Unless the refuge is really large and even then it's very rare in my experience that mature bucks dont leave the refuge at some point in the season. A Mature buck can be predicted to some extent through knowledge of prior years. They really love that sweet spot but that distance varies on terrain and pressure so knowledge of your pressure on that refuge is important. Early, rut, and late season those bucks can be vulnerable.

Early bucks have been unpressure all year. In some areas you find mature bucks on predicted bed to feed patterns and once disturbed they shift to the refuge. These are still typically spots most hunters dont go or overlook and they will tolerate hunters in traditional spots.

In rut some bucks will leave the refuge at night to other areas. These areas mature bucks magically appear around the same dates every year in the same bedding areas if your observant you can pick up on this and capitalize you typically have a small window where the bucks are using a area you can hunt here. They often times leave little sign other than tracks since they are busy with does. You still need to be aggressive and get in on them as they are aware this area holds danger compared to the refuge and dont move much if any outside security cover.

Late season typically hunting pressure falls off the later in season you get. Often times when it gets cold like teens or colder the best feed is and winter cover is sometimes outside the refuge. The deer through night movement also pick up on lack of human scent and become relaxed with using areas outside the refuge. Long range glassing and watching tracks can tell you when a buck is huntable. I will give an example of this. In 2017 I was tagged out but scouted late season to just learn buck patterns. With 1 week left of season noone was out it was single digits a foot of snow. The best buck in that refuge was bedding 300 yds across the road where you can hunt watching the hunter parking lot and picked corn field in the refuge. I couldn't believe when I watched him walk into that field 1 hr before dark from an area that had a stand every 100 yards. Obviously I scouted that area and could tell none of the hunters had been in for quite a while and the winter cover there was superior to the refuge at the spot. He could overlook the road, parking lot, hunter access, and field from his bedding area and approach in security cover while seeing everything on his entire route. If I have a tag late season I know to just drive that road and watch for mature buck tracks which tells me he is huntable NOW and move in.

You also have bucks that almost never leave as well it really depends a lot on the characteristics of the buck, the refuge size, and the food and cover on that refuge.


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