Deer vision VS Infrared camera

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Noreast10pt
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Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby Noreast10pt » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:56 am

I'm curious if deer low light vision would be the same as a trail camera with Infrared flash since some people have talked about getting picked off in a treestand when they weren't even moving.
If they see the same as a camera with Infrared flash then maybe this is why sometimes we get picked off so easily.

One morning a couple seasons ago I went out to hunt the back corner of a swamp that was on my land and I walked past a camera I had setup, I was wearing a camo Under Armour shirt at the time and some old cheap camo pants.
When I looked at the picture it captured, my shirt and face mask were completely white and my pants and hat looked normal, so that got me wondering what all my other camo would look like under the Infrared flash from a trail camera.
Here's a test of most of the items I own.


Old camo with light.
STC_0034.JPG

Old camo with Infrared flash
STC_0033.JPG

Under Armour shirt with light
STC_0040.JPG

Under Armour shirt with Infrared flash.
STC_0041.JPG

Predator camo with light, this looked the same as the Under Armour with the flash.
STC_0028.JPG

My winter over pants with the Under Armour shirt.
STC_0043.JPG

Not pictured but but tested at a different time was a Scentblocker winter coat which showed all white and a Heated Milwaukee winter coat that stayed camo both ways.
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby cantfoou » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:32 am

I can't help at all but thats pretty interesting.
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby austin1990 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:06 am

I noticed the same thing on my cameras 2 falls ago, I stopped wearing camo and swapped to od green carhartt pants and jacket and have used that combo successfully for a few seasons now. Maybe all in my head, but the camo appearing white and bright didnt seem like a good idea to me. The worse offender was the zonz woodland camo from cabelas.
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:28 am

Deer do not see color on the red side of the spectrum. The colors there appear as shades of gray to them. They certainly do not see true infrared which is heat. If you want to see that far into the spectrum than you need a fancy high dollar device like a FLIR. Search google images for "infrared" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

What deer do pick up a bit better than us is ultraviolet. That gives them good vision at night. Well, "good" being relative as their vision sucks overall. It's about 20/200 on the scale we use. They also make out colors on the blue end of the spectrum very well. Blues are fluorescent colors to them like Blaze Orange is to us. This is also why we avoid UV brighteners in our detergents.

The behavior you're seeing with your shirt is something entirely different. In order for the colors on your shirt to be seen, light has to hit it and then be reflected back to your eyes. The flash from the trail cam emits light only on the far red side of the spectrum. So the wavelengths of the rest of the visible color spectrum are missing from the flash. Consequently, they're not there to be reflected back at you for your eyes and so you do not see them or they may appear as shades of gray.

Trail cams use this tactic and flash type as it makes the flash far less visible. In fact unless you're looking at the cam you wouldn't see the light at all. If you wanted to see the true colors you would need to use a flash that contains all the colors in the spectrum - which would be a regular old white flash.
Last edited by ThePreBanMan on Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby simpzenith » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:31 am

It's the material that your clothes are constructed from and the ink sets used that causes "whiteout" of your clothing on night time, trail cam images. Polyester fabrics are most often printed with sublimated inks while clothing made from cellulosic fibers are usually printed with reactive inks. When I hunt/film others, I've noticed how much brighter their synthetic clothing is, on screen, versus their natural fiber counterparts.

This is why I only wear cotton, wool, etc when I'm hunting, especially from the ground.
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:34 am

Too add to my prior post, if you want to see what deer most likely see your camo as, shine a black light on it. That will be more representative of what the deer see.I googled around to find something that can explain it better than I did and found this site that does a good job:

http://www.john-tom.com/AirsoftPaintbal ... /Camo.html
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby simpzenith » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:59 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:Deer do not see color on the red side of the spectrum. The colors there appear as shades of gray to them. They certainly do not see true infrared which is heat. If you want to see that far into the spectrum than you need a fancy high dollar device like a FLIR. Search google images for "infrared" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

What deer do pick up a bit better than us is ultraviolet. That gives them good vision at night. Well, "good" being relative as their vision sucks overall. It's about 20/200 on the scale we use. They also make out colors on the blue end of the spectrum very well. Blues are fluorescent colors to them like Blaze Orange is to us. This is also why we avoid UV brighteners in our detergents.

The behavior you're seeing with your shirt is something entirely different. In order for the colors on your shirt to be seen, light has to hit it and then be reflected back to your eyes. The flash from the trail cam emits light only on the far red side of the spectrum. So the wavelengths of the rest of the visible color spectrum are missing from the flash. Consequently, they're not there to be reflected back at you for your eyes and so you do not see them or they may appear as shades of gray.

Trail cams use this tactic and flash type as it makes the flash far less visible. In fact unless you're looking at the cam you wouldn't see the light at all. If you wanted to see the true colors you would need to use a flash that contains all the colors in the spectrum - which would be a regular old white flash.


Not sure about that but I do know that it only occurs with synthetic fibers. 100% cotton camo doesn't become white. The higher the synthetic content, the more washed out it appears. A shirt with a 50/50 blend will be washed some and a 100% poly shirt will be white. Maybe Noreast10pt can tell us what the fiber content is of the items in the pic are?
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby HANSEND1986 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:16 pm

From what I understand deer do not see as well toward the infrared spectrum, but better into the ultraviolet than us as PreBanMan mentioned. Basically, what your trail camera sees is nothing like what a deer sees. So I wouldn't be concerned with the whiteout effect under infrared light. What is more concerning is making sure you wash your gear with a detergent that doesn't use UV brighteners. Of course it's difficult to really know what a deer can see.

Found these articles interesting on the subject.
https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/white ... d-movement

https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/big-g ... e-and-hear
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:47 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:Too add to my prior post, if you want to see what deer most likely see your camo as, shine a black light on it. That will be more representative of what the deer see.I googled around to find something that can explain it better than I did and found this site that does a good job:

http://www.john-tom.com/AirsoftPaintbal ... /Camo.html



I don't think it's related to the material - probably the dye. Consider that military uniforms are made from synthetics such as nylon, yet they do not exhibit this behavior. In fact, it's a hard requirement that the camo continues to function even under NIR light (near-infrared) so that soldiers don't become exposed when opposing forces employ IR devices such as some commonly used in forms of night vision. They also have to be flame resistant, breathable, water-resistant, etc..

I don't know what the exact blend percentages are that they use. But it's synthetics and yet their camo continues to function in NIR light. So there has to be something else at play with how NIR light is reflected.
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby phade » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:44 am

It's the UV brighteners. Almost everything made from China/Asia has it in there; even a majority of modern hunting clothes.

The lack of UV brighteners is why military clothing doesn't have this effect.

Older camo, such as the one shown first in the OP, didn't have UV brighteners because it wasn't commonplace then.

There is a detergent to remove UV brightener however, it's limited in effectiveness compared to what is promised, mostly because of the ability of the clothing to absorb or take on the chemical properties of the detergent.
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:17 am

phade wrote:It's the UV brighteners. Almost everything made from China/Asia has it in there; even a majority of modern hunting clothes.

The lack of UV brighteners is why military clothing doesn't have this effect.

Older camo, such as the one shown first in the OP, didn't have UV brighteners because it wasn't commonplace then.

There is a detergent to remove UV brightener however, it's limited in effectiveness compared to what is promised, mostly because of the ability of the clothing to absorb or take on the chemical properties of the detergent.


We're not on that side of the spectrum. UV is on the UV side (blue side) of the spectrum and we're discussing light on the NIR (near infra-red) side of the spectrum. So UV brighteners wouldn't come into play as there is no UV light in the equation. Maybe the brighteners have an impact on NIR light too. IDK. But it would seem they would just have an impact on UV light and visible light. IDK though.... Just making a statement on what I believe is their function. But I have seen items glow under black light that were dead under NIR.
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby Noreast10pt » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:25 am

simpzenith wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:Deer do not see color on the red side of the spectrum. The colors there appear as shades of gray to them. They certainly do not see true infrared which is heat. If you want to see that far into the spectrum than you need a fancy high dollar device like a FLIR. Search google images for "infrared" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

What deer do pick up a bit better than us is ultraviolet. That gives them good vision at night. Well, "good" being relative as their vision sucks overall. It's about 20/200 on the scale we use. They also make out colors on the blue end of the spectrum very well. Blues are fluorescent colors to them like Blaze Orange is to us. This is also why we avoid UV brighteners in our detergents.

The behavior you're seeing with your shirt is something entirely different. In order for the colors on your shirt to be seen, light has to hit it and then be reflected back to your eyes. The flash from the trail cam emits light only on the far red side of the spectrum. So the wavelengths of the rest of the visible color spectrum are missing from the flash. Consequently, they're not there to be reflected back at you for your eyes and so you do not see them or they may appear as shades of gray.

Trail cams use this tactic and flash type as it makes the flash far less visible. In fact unless you're looking at the cam you wouldn't see the light at all. If you wanted to see the true colors you would need to use a flash that contains all the colors in the spectrum - which would be a regular old white flash.


Not sure about that but I do know that it only occurs with synthetic fibers. 100% cotton camo doesn't become white. The higher the synthetic content, the more washed out it appears. A shirt with a 50/50 blend will be washed some and a 100% poly shirt will be white. Maybe Noreast10pt can tell us what the fiber content is of the items in the pic are?


All the items that showed white are 100% polyester and the ones that stayed camo were either 50/50 or 60/40 with cotton.
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:27 pm

Noreast10pt wrote:
simpzenith wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:Deer do not see color on the red side of the spectrum. The colors there appear as shades of gray to them. They certainly do not see true infrared which is heat. If you want to see that far into the spectrum than you need a fancy high dollar device like a FLIR. Search google images for "infrared" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

What deer do pick up a bit better than us is ultraviolet. That gives them good vision at night. Well, "good" being relative as their vision sucks overall. It's about 20/200 on the scale we use. They also make out colors on the blue end of the spectrum very well. Blues are fluorescent colors to them like Blaze Orange is to us. This is also why we avoid UV brighteners in our detergents.

The behavior you're seeing with your shirt is something entirely different. In order for the colors on your shirt to be seen, light has to hit it and then be reflected back to your eyes. The flash from the trail cam emits light only on the far red side of the spectrum. So the wavelengths of the rest of the visible color spectrum are missing from the flash. Consequently, they're not there to be reflected back at you for your eyes and so you do not see them or they may appear as shades of gray.

Trail cams use this tactic and flash type as it makes the flash far less visible. In fact unless you're looking at the cam you wouldn't see the light at all. If you wanted to see the true colors you would need to use a flash that contains all the colors in the spectrum - which would be a regular old white flash.


Not sure about that but I do know that it only occurs with synthetic fibers. 100% cotton camo doesn't become white. The higher the synthetic content, the more washed out it appears. A shirt with a 50/50 blend will be washed some and a 100% poly shirt will be white. Maybe Noreast10pt can tell us what the fiber content is of the items in the pic are?


All the items that showed white are 100% polyester and the ones that stayed camo were either 50/50 or 60/40 with cotton.


Yea... Well, I guess the bottom line is - don't worry about it. Deer are red/green color blind and they certainly aren't seeing NIR or IR. If that were happening under a black light, different story..
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby Sailfish_WC » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:02 am

Noreast10pt wrote:
All the items that showed white are 100% polyester and the ones that stayed camo were either 50/50 or 60/40 with cotton.


From my recent game cam pic I went and checked.
The pants that glowed were 100% poly
Shirt was 60/40
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Re: Deer vision VS Infrared camera

Unread postby EllieTheChubb » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:11 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:
Noreast10pt wrote:
simpzenith wrote:
ThePreBanMan wrote:Deer do not see color on the red side of the spectrum. The colors there appear as shades of gray to them. They certainly do not see true infrared which is heat. If you want to see that far into the spectrum than you need a fancy high dollar device like a FLIR. Search google images for "infrared" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

What deer do pick up a bit better than us is ultraviolet. That gives them good vision at night. Well, "good" being relative as their vision sucks overall. It's about 20/200 on the scale we use. They also make out colors on the blue end of the spectrum very well. Blues are fluorescent colors to them like Blaze Orange is to us. This is also why we avoid UV brighteners in our detergents.

The behavior you're seeing with your shirt is something entirely different. In order for the colors on your shirt to be seen, light has to hit it and then be reflected back to your eyes. The flash from the trail cam emits light only on the far red side of the spectrum. So the wavelengths of the rest of the visible color spectrum are missing from the flash. Consequently, they're not there to be reflected back at you for your eyes and so you do not see them or they may appear as shades of gray.

Trail cams use this tactic and flash type as it makes the flash far less visible. In fact unless you're looking at the cam you wouldn't see the light at all. If you wanted to see the true colors you would need to use a flash that contains all the colors in the spectrum - which would be a regular old white flash.


Not sure about that but I do know that it only occurs with synthetic fibers. 100% cotton camo doesn't become white. The higher the synthetic content, the more washed out it appears. A shirt with a 50/50 blend will be washed some and a 100% poly shirt will be white. Maybe Noreast10pt can tell us what the fiber content is of the items in the pic are?


All the items that showed white are 100% polyester and the ones that stayed camo were either 50/50 or 60/40 with cotton.


Yea... Well, I guess the bottom line is - don't worry about it. Deer are red/green color blind and they certainly aren't seeing NIR or IR. If that were happening under a black light, different story..



Well when is the blacklight test gonna happen??


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