River Bottom Hubs

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funderburk
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River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby funderburk » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:25 pm

In hill country, I’ve struggled with really grasping the concept of river bottom hubs, or thermal hubs. THP just did a video on how multiple ridges meet and how bucks will bed in the flat lowland. I also remember seeing it on Dan’s hill dvd, but I’m still missing it somehow...


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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby Bowhuntercoop » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:12 pm

Due to the topography it forces the air and thermals down, also causes the swirling effect. No matter the wind direction they can smell in the bottom. Thermals will often times still rise out, but they tend to suck more thermals down.

They are extremely hard to hunt due to not having a consistent wind. Making entry and exit tuff, plus ya get busted haha. Rut they are awesome to hunt the transitions coming outta them.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby Ranger Matthews » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:00 pm

There is a lot going on in bottom type areas. Some is from thermals and some is from the wind swirling. Sometimes if you try to visualize the wind as a 3 dimensional river it helps to see what areas would naturally create eddys. Normally those type areas are almost impossible to hunt.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby NYBackcountry » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:21 pm

I’ll also add, I think they have another appealing trait to deer. There are usually multiple topographic features pouring into one bottom. It provides multiple exits many times. I can think of a handful here in my mountains where 3-5 points will dump into one bottom. Those points lead up to travel corridors and around here, oak flats.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:30 am

The best way I have found to hunt hubs, bottoms, etc., is on a calm morning as the thermals in the very bottom, in specific locations, tend to rise straight up. Wind is no different than water, if all the thermals in the surrounding hills is pouring into the bottom the air HAS to go somewhere.

What I have noticed is that if you will walk those bottoms in the heat of the day you will encounter cool spots. I have found these are typically the place where this happens, not always buy enough to investigate. Walk them again in early morning (before thermals kick in) and test with milkweed. It can also happen where a deep cut/creek pours into the bottom, the rest of the area is pouring downhill and in that spot it will move uphill. The great thing is if you can find where this updraft is happening that is where I have noticed bucks prefer to be a lot of the times (at least until thermals kick in then they may move). Makes sense as all the surround downdrafts are coming to this spot where it then moves up.

It can be really tricky and if there is true swirling then its probably a better option hunting higher IME. Also, winds in bottoms usually do create more swirling effect thus it is better on those cold calm mornings.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby stash59 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:02 am

DaveT1963 wrote:The best way I have found to hunt hubs, bottoms, etc., is on a calm morning as the thermals in the very bottom, in specific locations, tend to rise straight up. Wind is no different than water, if all the thermals in the surrounding hills is pouring into the bottom the air HAS to go somewhere.

What I have noticed is that if you will walk those bottoms in the heat of the day you will encounter cool spots. I have found these are typically the place where this happens, not always buy enough to investigate. Walk them again in early morning (before thermals kick in) and test with milkweed. It can also happen where a deep cut/creek pours into the bottom, the rest of the area is pouring downhill and in that spot it will move uphill. The great thing is if you can find where this updraft is happening that is where I have noticed bucks prefer to be a lot of the times (at least until thermals kick in then they may move). Makes sense as all the surround downdrafts are coming to this spot where it then moves up.

It can be really tricky and if there is true swirling then its probably a better option hunting higher IME. Also, winds in bottoms usually do create more swirling effect thus it is better on those cold calm mornings.


Haven't been in a hill country hub for whitetails yet. But think some of the wet flats in elk country act similarly. These can even be up at higher elevations. Bunch of small draws/drainages empty into them. You often find wallows there. They're hard to hunt. Like the hubs the wind swirls alot. But at times it's like the mountainside is breathing. The thermals will pull down for awhile. Then push up for awhile. Usually occurs in the AM just after sunrise. Then in the PM at sunset. But have seen it midday too.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby Rmallen » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:13 am

Just another thought/question the places I’ve found seem to be difficult to hunt because there are typically several different bedding sights where they move to. They may be off one point today due to environmental factors and off another point a different day. Also tends to be a lot more satellite bedding where the deer will escape through the main bedding. Putting the rest of the animals on full alert.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby WV Bowhunter » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:29 am

Generally will be several scrapes and rubs in the hubs I find. It will look like the best spot in the area, sign wise, but almost unhuntable where all the sign is.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby Redman232 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:37 am

WV Bowhunter wrote:Generally will be several scrapes and rubs in the hubs I find. It will look like the best spot in the area, sign wise, but almost unhuntable where all the sign is.


Yep, took several white flags on the backside of deer for me to give it up. I've never found much buck bedding in these locations. From what I've seen it's often the last place they hit in the morning before going up to bed or the first place they hit in the evening. Doe groups on the other hand don't seem to mind bedding in the swirling mess in these bottoms. I've had better luck between assumed bedding areas and the hub locations. As Dave said, a calm cool morning is about the only time I would consider it worth the risk. Any other day and you're going to spook deer you never even have a chance to see. These are good locations to watch from a distance during gun seasons, especially if your gun season falls during the rut.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby HunterBob » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:08 am

DaveT1963 wrote:The best way I have found to hunt hubs, bottoms, etc., is on a calm morning as the thermals in the very bottom, in specific locations, tend to rise straight up. Wind is no different than water, if all the thermals in the surrounding hills is pouring into the bottom the air HAS to go somewhere.

What I have noticed is that if you will walk those bottoms in the heat of the day you will encounter cool spots. I have found these are typically the place where this happens, not always buy enough to investigate. Walk them again in early morning (before thermals kick in) and test with milkweed. It can also happen where a deep cut/creek pours into the bottom, the rest of the area is pouring downhill and in that spot it will move uphill. The great thing is if you can find where this updraft is happening that is where I have noticed bucks prefer to be a lot of the times (at least until thermals kick in then they may move). Makes sense as all the surround downdrafts are coming to this spot where it then moves up.

It can be really tricky and if there is true swirling then its probably a better option hunting higher IME. Also, winds in bottoms usually do create more swirling effect thus it is better on those cold calm mornings.


Wow, read this through three times, but I think I've got it now. This is incredibly helpful information and is helping me to put some pieces together in my head. I have found bedding areas in the river bottoms where it is mostly flat and never really understood why something is bedding there. I also find that hunting these areas is certainly better in the morning, as sneaking in can be almost impossible in the afternoons. Thanks Dave!
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:14 am

HunterBob wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:The best way I have found to hunt hubs, bottoms, etc., is on a calm morning as the thermals in the very bottom, in specific locations, tend to rise straight up. Wind is no different than water, if all the thermals in the surrounding hills is pouring into the bottom the air HAS to go somewhere.

What I have noticed is that if you will walk those bottoms in the heat of the day you will encounter cool spots. I have found these are typically the place where this happens, not always buy enough to investigate. Walk them again in early morning (before thermals kick in) and test with milkweed. It can also happen where a deep cut/creek pours into the bottom, the rest of the area is pouring downhill and in that spot it will move uphill. The great thing is if you can find where this updraft is happening that is where I have noticed bucks prefer to be a lot of the times (at least until thermals kick in then they may move). Makes sense as all the surround downdrafts are coming to this spot where it then moves up.

It can be really tricky and if there is true swirling then its probably a better option hunting higher IME. Also, winds in bottoms usually do create more swirling effect thus it is better on those cold calm mornings.


Wow, read this through three times, but I think I've got it now. This is incredibly helpful information and is helping me to put some pieces together in my head. I have found bedding areas in the river bottoms where it is mostly flat and never really understood why something is bedding there. I also find that hunting these areas is certainly better in the morning, as sneaking in can be almost impossible in the afternoons. Thanks Dave!


While you are there, if the river has good flow, often you can set up right on the bank in a pinch point and the water current has a thermal like effect and move you scent stream down the river. Especially if the river has steep high banks - 4+ foot high. This is one way to trick bucks with a slight off wind - they actually think they have the wind in their favor because they do - but the wind right next to the river might be doing something a little different. You do not find these every day - but when you do..... also, oxbows can also effect winds with a somewhat swirling effect ;)
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby justdirtyfun » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:23 am

My 2 cents relate to evening. I have a bowl/bottom area that is like described and will be difficult to get into without being busted. Considering wind direction and thermal drop in the evening, I chose a ridge point that I want to stage on, close but not in the vacuum area of the bowl.
My plan is to hunt the last bit of evening when the winds lay down and when a buck would be on his feet going to check out the hub for information on where HE wants to go.

At this point I have not yet done it but it's a solid game plan.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby HunterBob » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:02 am

DaveT1963 wrote:
HunterBob wrote:
DaveT1963 wrote:The best way I have found to hunt hubs, bottoms, etc., is on a calm morning as the thermals in the very bottom, in specific locations, tend to rise straight up. Wind is no different than water, if all the thermals in the surrounding hills is pouring into the bottom the air HAS to go somewhere.

What I have noticed is that if you will walk those bottoms in the heat of the day you will encounter cool spots. I have found these are typically the place where this happens, not always buy enough to investigate. Walk them again in early morning (before thermals kick in) and test with milkweed. It can also happen where a deep cut/creek pours into the bottom, the rest of the area is pouring downhill and in that spot it will move uphill. The great thing is if you can find where this updraft is happening that is where I have noticed bucks prefer to be a lot of the times (at least until thermals kick in then they may move). Makes sense as all the surround downdrafts are coming to this spot where it then moves up.

It can be really tricky and if there is true swirling then its probably a better option hunting higher IME. Also, winds in bottoms usually do create more swirling effect thus it is better on those cold calm mornings.


Wow, read this through three times, but I think I've got it now. This is incredibly helpful information and is helping me to put some pieces together in my head. I have found bedding areas in the river bottoms where it is mostly flat and never really understood why something is bedding there. I also find that hunting these areas is certainly better in the morning, as sneaking in can be almost impossible in the afternoons. Thanks Dave!


While you are there, if the river has good flow, often you can set up right on the bank in a pinch point and the water current has a thermal like effect and move you scent stream down the river. Especially if the river has steep high banks - 4+ foot high. This is one way to trick bucks with a slight off wind - they actually think they have the wind in their favor because they do - but the wind right next to the river might be doing something a little different. You do not find these every day - but when you do..... also, oxbows can also effect winds with a somewhat swirling effect ;)


Man, there is so much to learn about wind. That is one of my goals for this season, but you are giving me some things to experiment with and try to find some of those slight variances that might just be the difference between failure and success.
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Re: River Bottom Hubs

Unread postby cspot » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:56 am

I have found in these bowl/hubs that sometimes just a small change in stand location can make a big difference in getting busted vs not. However if you are hunting them you are going to get busted sometimes with the wind.


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