Lack of new rubbing.. great old ones

[BBH1980]

Hey guys just looking for some advice.. I am on a public ground of about 10k acres loaded with smaller 1-5 acre heavy swamps, creeks running through it along with some higher spots with oaks. Its thick and nasty. I have been scouting the swamp transitions and finding plenty of bedding with a few hairs and tons of droppings, but in my area a mature buck is hard to come by so there aren't many rubs. I have been able to use tracks and dropping size to help with this. My big question is I am finding a decent amount of big high rubs but they are all fairly old... Id say 3 to 4 years. There really aren't many new rubs at all... no big ones anyway. Normally I'd write an area like this off and move on thinking its all old sign, but I know for a fact there's at least one big mature buck living there likely 2.. hes been seen on several occasions. I am wondering what to really make of this? Should I be using the old rubs as a sign that a mature buck is using the bedding but maybe not rubbing now due to lack of competition? Has anyone ever seen anything like this? My goal right now is to get cameras out in high human traffic areas where hes been seen in the past. Its to heavy to glass or shine at night. My last resort come season is to hunt the area down and try to at least get eyes on him. Thanks in advance!

[Tennhunter3]

The only old rubs I pay attention too are the ones near bedding that have been rubbed multiple years. If it's a area that bucks have rubbed previously they will be rubbed again eventually or the tree will die and a tree nearby will be selected as a replacement by the bucks.

Alot of bucks walk right by old rubs and never rub them.

In a hunting public camera over a signpost rub few of the bucks seen on camera rubbed the tree. I think in areas with 1 dominate buck their very few rubs if any.

Aggressive rubbing only happens if their is competition in a area.

I think it was Dan's biggest buck their were no fresh rubs anywhere near that bedding area.

Just because their is no very fresh rubs doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered a good spot. You might want to put a few cams nearby might be surprised by what shows up.

[BBH1980]

The only old rubs I pay attention too are the ones near bedding that have been rubbed multiple years. If it's a area that bucks have rubbed previously they will be rubbed again eventually or the tree will die and a tree nearby will be selected as a replacement by the bucks.

Alot of bucks walk right by old rubs and never rub them.

In a hunting public camera over a signpost rub few of the bucks seen on camera rubbed the tree. I think in areas with 1 dominate buck their very few rubs if any.

Aggressive rubbing only happens if their is competition in a area.

I think it was Dan's biggest buck their were no fresh rubs anywhere near that bedding area.

Just because their is no very fresh rubs doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered a good spot. You might want to put a few cams nearby might be surprised by what shows up.

Thanks thats kinda what my plan was gonna be... With there being no rubs my first two thoughts were theres just no mature buck here or there is one big dominant one... thats based on everything I have watched from Dan. It does make it harder to identify where hes at but I am going to hang some cameras in key spots and I have a ton of intel about where this buck is from another guy thats been hunting him for a few years. He definitely stays to about an 600 acre area or so. So much good bedding its hard to know for sure, thats why my plan was to hang cams and hunt the property down during season. Biggest issue we run into here is they love to watch hunter access and some spots are so thick you cant walk around to get to them but I may have to go way out of the way and thats ok with me.. lol

[DaveT1963]

Buck to doe ratio will effect aggressive rubbing. Most of the good bedding areas i find do not have a lot of sign. I winder sometimes if bucks might be adapting with time as the bucks that by nature rub/scrape a lot are killed that the ones surviving and passing on genes are the more reclusive, less aggressive bucks? This can be very geographical in nature. In any event, most of the rubs I find near bedding are sept rubs and very subtle - IME the more aggressive rubs are usually made on travel corridors or near feeding areas and many are made under the cover of darkness.

[dan]

I have noticed a huge variation in rubbing activity on properties with multiple mature bucks, vs properties with 1 or 2 mature bucks

[BBH1980]

I have noticed a huge variation in rubbing activity on properties with multiple mature bucks, vs properties with 1 or 2 mature bucks

Assuming you mean the ones with only one or two mature bucks your finding little to no rubbing Dan?

[BBH1980]

Buck to doe ratio will effect aggressive rubbing. Most of the good bedding areas i find do not have a lot of sign. I winder sometimes if bucks might be adapting with time as the bucks that by nature rub/scrape a lot are killed that the ones surviving and passing on genes are the more reclusive, less aggressive bucks? This can be very geographical in nature. In any event, most of the rubs I find near bedding are sept rubs and very subtle - IME the more aggressive rubs are usually made on travel corridors or near feeding areas and many are made under the cover of darkness.

Funny you say that. I'm fairly new to this property, I am used to hunting rolling farm an hour north of the area where there's lots of rubs but mostly 1 to 2 year olds with a few 3 year olds mixed in. It's all private and driven hard during rifle season, but there more deer there. My thoughts are there's one giant in the area I mentioned and he doesn't need to rub much... Join that with few rubbable trees and the results are little to no rubs lol. My thoughts on the older ones I am finding is maybe there were more mature deer in the area few years back

[dan]

I have noticed a huge variation in rubbing activity on properties with multiple mature bucks, vs properties with 1 or 2 mature bucks

Assuming you mean the ones with only one or two mature bucks your finding little to no rubbing Dan?

Yes, especially around bedding areas.All big bucks rub. I have never shot a big buck or seen one shot in hard antler that did not have bark on its antlers or wear on the burr section... If there are mature bucks in your area there will be matching rubs somewhere... But they do not have competition for beds and they won't rub near the beds. Biggest buck I ever shot bedded in the same spot very often for 2 years before I finally shot him in that bed, and there was never a rub or scrape anywhere within a couple hundred yards.

[BBH1980]

I have noticed a huge variation in rubbing activity on properties with multiple mature bucks, vs properties with 1 or 2 mature bucks

Assuming you mean the ones with only one or two mature bucks your finding little to no rubbing Dan?

Yes, especially around bedding areas.All big bucks rub. I have never shot a big buck or seen one shot in hard antler that did not have bark on its antlers or wear on the burr section... If there are mature bucks in your area there will be matching rubs somewhere... But they do not have competition for beds and they won't rub near the beds. Biggest buck I ever shot bedded in the same spot very often for 2 years before I finally shot him in that bed, and there was never a rub or scrape anywhere within a couple hundred yards.

Yup Ive listened to that story on your podcasts... good stuff. I think thats my biggest issue is I am not finding big fresh rubs anywhere... granted I may be missing it cause its a big area and very thick. Kinda like big woods... no fields, small ridges and hills with acorns. So your saying more likely to find this guys rubs near food sources? I have been so focused on finding beds that I never really gave a good look at the acorn areas... theres also one open are cut by the DNR that has grasses in it.. never looked at that edge either. I am guessing I should maybe have done that first ? I read on the beast, some guys will just look at feeding areas or road crossings to find big rubs to tell them theres a mature one there.. if they find them they will then dive into looking for bedding.

[dan]

I have noticed a huge variation in rubbing activity on properties with multiple mature bucks, vs properties with 1 or 2 mature bucks

Assuming you mean the ones with only one or two mature bucks your finding little to no rubbing Dan?

Yes, especially around bedding areas.All big bucks rub. I have never shot a big buck or seen one shot in hard antler that did not have bark on its antlers or wear on the burr section... If there are mature bucks in your area there will be matching rubs somewhere... But they do not have competition for beds and they won't rub near the beds. Biggest buck I ever shot bedded in the same spot very often for 2 years before I finally shot him in that bed, and there was never a rub or scrape anywhere within a couple hundred yards.

Yup Ive listened to that story on your podcasts... good stuff. I think thats my biggest issue is I am not finding big fresh rubs anywhere... granted I may be missing it cause its a big area and very thick. Kinda like big woods... no fields, small ridges and hills with acorns. So your saying more likely to find this guys rubs near food sources? I have been so focused on finding beds that I never really gave a good look at the acorn areas... theres also one open are cut by the DNR that has grasses in it.. never looked at that edge either. I am guessing I should maybe have done that first ? I read on the beast, some guys will just look at feeding areas or road crossings to find big rubs to tell them theres a mature one there.. if they find them they will then dive into looking for bedding.

Check feeding areas, doe areas, funnels, etc... No big rubs anywhere? Don't waste your time... Your hunting an animal that don't exist.

[BBH1980]

I have noticed a huge variation in rubbing activity on properties with multiple mature bucks, vs properties with 1 or 2 mature bucks

Assuming you mean the ones with only one or two mature bucks your finding little to no rubbing Dan?

Yes, especially around bedding areas.All big bucks rub. I have never shot a big buck or seen one shot in hard antler that did not have bark on its antlers or wear on the burr section... If there are mature bucks in your area there will be matching rubs somewhere... But they do not have competition for beds and they won't rub near the beds. Biggest buck I ever shot bedded in the same spot very often for 2 years before I finally shot him in that bed, and there was never a rub or scrape anywhere within a couple hundred yards.

Yup Ive listened to that story on your podcasts... good stuff. I think thats my biggest issue is I am not finding big fresh rubs anywhere... granted I may be missing it cause its a big area and very thick. Kinda like big woods... no fields, small ridges and hills with acorns. So your saying more likely to find this guys rubs near food sources? I have been so focused on finding beds that I never really gave a good look at the acorn areas... theres also one open are cut by the DNR that has grasses in it.. never looked at that edge either. I am guessing I should maybe have done that first ? I read on the beast, some guys will just look at feeding areas or road crossings to find big rubs to tell them theres a mature one there.. if they find them they will then dive into looking for bedding.

Check feeding areas, doe areas, funnels, etc... No big rubs anywhere? Don't waste your time... Your hunting an animal that don't exist.

Thanks as always Dan!