Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

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grydsrt
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby grydsrt » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:52 pm

http://dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/pdf/PressurePointsQDMA.pdf
Maybe hunt during the rut like trolling rather than fishing from the bank all day in the same spot?

See the above link re the GPS-collared study by Clint McCoy.

Because, looking at the above link, it seems from McCoy’s data, that unlike popular wisdom, even though buck’s travel significant distances during the rut, they only do so within their core area.

Consequently, if, “[d]uring the rut and post-rut, [a buck will travel] up to an average of about 3.5 miles a day” in “[t]he average home range for a buck in [the] study [or] only 350 acres” if he’s there, you are bound to see him within a short amount of time.

“So, [because] even though they had small home ranges, bucks were still moving a considerable distance within that range on a daily basis.” Therefore, with the buck traveling 3.5 miles in 350 acres if you do not see him in a few hours it might not hurt to get down and move.

Thus, by combining Clint’s GPS-collar based knowledge with PSU’s GPS-collar data in # 16 above, or that, “buck movements increased to some of their highest levels from 11AM to 2PM.”

You could sit from 10am until 2pm in one spot and then make a major, 1/2 mile, movement across your hunting area, using a road or body of water as a “handrail.” See colored graphic on p. 3 in the above link for buck territories not overlapping. Then sit in the new area from 3pm - dark.

This is because, with 350 acres being approximately .57 miles on a side, IF you are in a buck’s core area, you should see him when his, “movements [are at] some of their highest levels [or] from 11AM to 2PM” because he’s traveling, “an average of about 3.5 miles a day.”

However, if you do not see him between 11am and 2pm, perhaps you might spot him during your 2pm-3pm 1/2 mile movement parallel to the road or body of water with that movement being a sort of “observation walk.”

Incorporating additional PSU data into this paradigm, if paralleling the road, do so at the linear “sweet spot” or approximately 1/2 in. Really it would seem you have nothing to lose, because with both you and the various rutting buck’s each traveling major distances during the rut, the chance of you spotting him is much higher than while sitting in one spot for one or more days at a time.

Moreover, even assuming you bump him during your 2pm-3pm movement, based on PSU’s data above he’s not leaving that core area. Therefore, likely the savvy Beast can extrapolate, from that observed bump, where to set up the next day by 10am to best intercept your bumped buck.

I believe I’ll try this technique this year, because as Dr. McCoy states in the above link, “[a]dvances in GPS technology and mapping software are helping explain deer movements and behavior, revealing motives for why, when, and where deer travel.”


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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby grydsrt » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

I am betting these high and low-fences exotic operations count as “captive ungulate facilities,” thus making hunting the immediate downwind side a productive endeavor. Because based on the graphic in the link above, it’s covered up with bucks! Coincidentally, I found major sign downwind of both the Kudo in the high fence and black buck/fallow deer in the low, however until I read the Gps-collar studies, I did now know how to “action” that knowledge. Now I do, e.g. hunt as close to that fence as possible, directly above it even. That KSU GPS study graphic is truly amazing.

See #17. ^^^ or “Four male deer had at least one location recorded within 50m of a captive ungulate facility that is located on private land adjacent to the refuge.”
44397A3E-FF1A-4622-B171-56D652B93DC4.jpeg
002D1AC3-4AEC-4FB0-9EC4-DF300078090A.jpeg
12418A49-F3F0-4FFA-995D-7A8E4713BBBC.jpeg
A547424A-346A-4CC3-AA28-CC6010A0256E.jpeg
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Boogieman1
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:06 pm

I enjoy reading through collar studies infact any kind of study or science experiment. But I take them with a grain of salt, lime wedge and shot of tequila. I'm 100% convinced if u dig deep enough u can find studies to support anything u want. If there isn't one throw enough money out there to universities and they will create one for u complete with charts and graphs. I highly suggest Rudgers university if u really need to cook up a good one to move some product
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Tennhunter3
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby Tennhunter3 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:06 am

Great article and study thanks for posting it.

I found a few things I don't agree with.
Bucks dont walk the top of ridges for the most part they walk side hill.


Some bucks are territorial outside the rut.
Prerut is a very aggressive timeframe.

Bucks do go nocturnal not all of them, deer are like humans they all have individual personalities. I don't think they stay nocturnal for months or years but they have periods they just don't leave the bedding area at all.

Bucks do move during a light rain quite often.
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby grydsrt » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:31 am

Tennhunter3 wrote:Great article and study thanks for posting it.

I found a few things I don't agree with.
Bucks dont walk the top of ridges for the most part they walk side hill.


Some bucks are territorial outside the rut.
Prerut is a very aggressive timeframe.

Bucks do go nocturnal not all of them, deer are like humans they all have individual personalities. I don't think they stay nocturnal for months or years but they have periods they just don't leave the bedding area at all.

Bucks do move during a light rain quite often.


Tenn Guy, I’m glad you read the article. My intent in posting was to simply call attention to the data re deer behavior being generated by these gps collar deer studies. In fact, on several of those podcasts I inaccurately described what was discussed. Therefore, if you listen to them and see where I got wrong, could you post the miss-quotes? It would help me, thanks. Specifically these two podcasts: http://www.downsouthhunting.com/episode-011-qdma-national-convention-chatting-w-dr-duane-diefenbach-jon-livingston-pressured-deer-study-trail-cams/ and http://wiredtohunt.com/2017/12/21/wired-to-hunt-podcast-194-duane-diefenbach-talks-aprs-deer-forest-study-monitoring-deer-movements-and-more/
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby grydsrt » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:20 pm

dan wrote:So I am at work and don't have time to look at this whole thing, however contradiction is in the eyes of the beholder. Some of the stuff your claiming contradicts I don't see that way. Like right off the bat you quoted that buck rut timing has nothing to do with the moon. Yep... I have said that hundreds of times and know if you search this site you will find that in print and in podcasts I have done. Rut is at the same time every year, that's a scientifically provable fact. It has to do with the amount of light during the day vs night, not the temperature, and not the moon.

I need to read more to discuss more... Interesting write up that deserves to be analyzed.

Dan, thanks for saying ^^^. I appreciate your feeling this needs to be analyzed.
The techniques you teach are absolutely the most cutting-edge, I like how you arrived at them by filming your scouting sessions.
In one million years I would have never learned one lick of the techniques you teach on my own.
However, after having studied your techniques for the past five years, I am at the point that six times last year I got set, threw the binos up at where I expected the deer to appear, and had whitetail in the lens.
At least 70% of the time last year, the deer came from where I expected them, when I expected them, and, if they didn’t, I could figure out why.
Thanks.
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby grydsrt » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:06 pm

Expanding on my post above*
I feel that during the rut you could sit from 10am until 2pm in one spot.
Then make a major, 1/2 mile, movement across your hunting area, using a road or body of water as a “handrail," by paralleling it.
Paralleling it (the linear terrain feature) 1/2 mile in as well.
Then sit in the new area 3pm - dark.
Because, with 350 acres being approximately .57 miles on a side,
IF you are in a buck’s core area, you should see him when his, “movements [are at] some of their highest levels [or] from 11AM to 2PM” as he is traveling, “an average of about 3.5 miles a day.”
Consequently, if you do not see him (during peak rut) between 11am and 2pm, you are likely NOT in his core area.
Therefore, by arbitrarily picking up and moving a 1/2 mile at 2pm you exponentially increase your chances of getting into a buck’s core area.
I suggest handrailing along a linear terrain feature to ensure you travel at least 1/2 mile away from your earlier location that, based on data from Clint’s GPS study, almost certainly did not contain a buck.
Because otherwise you would have seen him.
Peak rut ain’t that long Gents, better take advantage when of it while it’s happening.
Thus, if you’re not seeing deer between 11AM - 2PM, according to GPS collar studies, there is no point in wasting any more of that precious day during the rut in a spot that ain’t producing and won’t produce.
Aka: Trolling for deer.
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby grydsrt » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:13 pm

http://dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/pdf/PressurePointsQDMA.pdf
When I look at the first pic, seen below, and capped from Clint McCoy’s GPS study in the link above, the following jumps off the screen:
1. The buck’s territories (core areas?) clearly seem to not overlap each other.
2. The buck’s territories seem clearly to be based on the black boundary which is a road(?).
3. The one open area outside the boundary (to the West), is clearly being avoided by these bucks.
4. However, the buck’s territories that seem to overlap the boundaries seem to only be in locations in which cover exists on both sides of the boundary.
5. When the buck’s territories overlap the boundary, they seem to venture out in a significantly limited capacity.
6. There is almost no buck movement in the center section.
7. When I take the same pic, and draw an orange line through the center of each buck’s territories, I lay out where presumably the best hunting should be during the rut. Or, as stated in the post above, ½ mile in and following the exterior boundary, likely a road, in black.
PressurePointsQDMA.2.jpg

PressurePointsQDMA.3.jpg
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cspot
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby cspot » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:58 pm

grydsrt wrote:http://dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/pdf/PressurePointsQDMA.pdf
When I look at the first pic, seen below, and capped from Clint McCoy’s GPS study in the link above, the following jumps off the screen:
1. The buck’s territories (core areas?) clearly seem to not overlap each other.
2. The buck’s territories seem clearly to be based on the black boundary which is a road(?).
3. The one open area outside the boundary (to the West), is clearly being avoided by these bucks.
4. However, the buck’s territories that seem to overlap the boundaries seem to only be in locations in which cover exists on both sides of the boundary.
5. When the buck’s territories overlap the boundary, they seem to venture out in a significantly limited capacity.
6. There is almost no buck movement in the center section.
7. When I take the same pic, and draw an orange line through the center of each buck’s territories, I lay out where presumably the best hunting should be during the rut. Or, as stated in the post above, ½ mile in and following the exterior boundary, likely a road, in black.
PressurePointsQDMA.2.jpg
PressurePointsQDMA.3.jpg



I think you really need to read the article to understand fully what you are seeing.

1. The said they recorded 37 different bucks. I don't see that many colors on the image. Likely they picked buck ranges that didn't overlap much so that it was easier for the reader to see the home range size. They didn't have every buck in the area outfitted with a collar too.

2. Total area of the place was 6400 acres. They had a feeding station for every 100 acres. It is also mentioned that the entire thing is intensely managed and a buck didn't need to travel far to get everything he needed. Home ranges only averaged 350 acres which is less than normal I believe for most locations.

3. Almost all stands are on the feeding stations or food plots. Hunters walked an average of 20 yards to get into a stand.

4. The dots on the map are all locations (I think every 30 minutes). To really discern where to hunt you would need to see his locations in daylight vs nightime.
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby grydsrt » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:16 pm

cspot wrote:
grydsrt wrote:http://dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/pdf/PressurePointsQDMA.pdf
When I look at the first pic, seen below, and capped from Clint McCoy’s GPS study in the link above, the following jumps off the screen:
1. The buck’s territories (core areas?) clearly seem to not overlap each other.
2. The buck’s territories seem clearly to be based on the black boundary which is a road(?).
3. The one open area outside the boundary (to the West), is clearly being avoided by these bucks.
4. However, the buck’s territories that seem to overlap the boundaries seem to only be in locations in which cover exists on both sides of the boundary.
5. When the buck’s territories overlap the boundary, they seem to venture out in a significantly limited capacity.
6. There is almost no buck movement in the center section.
7. When I take the same pic, and draw an orange line through the center of each buck’s territories, I lay out where presumably the best hunting should be during the rut. Or, as stated in the post above, ½ mile in and following the exterior boundary, likely a road, in black.
PressurePointsQDMA.2.jpg
PressurePointsQDMA.3.jpg

I think you really need to read the article to understand fully what you are seeing.
1. The said they recorded 37 different bucks. I don't see that many colors on the image. Likely they picked buck ranges that didn't overlap much so that it was easier for the reader to see the home range size. They didn't have every buck in the area outfitted with a collar too.
2. Total area of the place was 6400 acres. They had a feeding station for every 100 acres. It is also mentioned that the entire thing is intensely managed and a buck didn't need to travel far to get everything he needed. Home ranges only averaged 350 acres which is less than normal I believe for most locations.
3. Almost all stands are on the feeding stations or food plots. Hunters walked an average of 20 yards to get into a stand.
4. The dots on the map are all locations (I think every 30 minutes). To really discern where to hunt you would need to see his locations in daylight vs nightime.


Well cspot, that’s good, at least you have a theory.
Now, as I understand your theory, it is that my theory is incorrect?
I suppose that’s better than generally implying Rutgers is corrupt ^^^?
However, since Rutgers is in the north they’s Yankees, and since I don’t like Yankees, I don’t care about Rutgers’ corruption or lack thereof.
Except for my girlfriend and my mom, they’re Yankees and I like them both, a lot. ;)
However at least now you’ve read enough of this post to have a theory.
Beyond me being wrong, is there anything new or groundbreaking you can derive in relation to beast-style hunting from the approximately 19 articles and four podcasts on GPS collared deer studies cited above?
On the other hand, if you cannot, what fault, if any, can you find in my reasoning in my posts at the bottom of page 2 and again the top of this page under “captive ungulate facilities?” Or my concept of getting in the tree by midnight?
Here’s a secret: I’m wrong quite a bit, if not all the time. My usual wrongness is exactly why I’ve posted this on here, where all the experienced beast hunters hang out (except Autum Ninja, he don’t hang out on here anymore) so as to gain your perspective on the GPS-collared deer studies.
However, so far, all y’all supposedly forward-thinking beast practitioners, except Dan, have managed to do, is make general statements about how GPS-collared deer studies are wrong and me along with them.
How about, instead of relying on all our mega-tons of years of experience in the deer woods, maybe let’s look at this GPS-collared deer study data and pretend we had never been in a tree a day in our lives and then decide how use it to kill a deer?
I mean, deer season is still a piece off, what else have you going on?
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cspot
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby cspot » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:20 am

I did not say you were wrong, but just pointing out some things about the article. THe GPS data confirms what the article was about. 1st time sits are usually the best and the more you hunt the less likely you are to see buck.

If you also notice in the article they said that bucks have their own unique characteristics as individuals.

I believe that several of us have said that the GPS data confirms alot of the beast tactics. I follow the PSU deer blog and I haven't seen anything that contradicts Beast tactics or I would point it out.

Take a look at this one from PSU. This is a buck during PA's rifle season.

Image

The yellow dots are hunting hours and the black is nighttime.

The researcher had these comments.

During daytime hours he doesn’t move a lot (clusters of yellow dots)
His hiding spots during the day tend to be on steep topographic features
Some hiding spots are right next to the road!

Hmm. Can't remember where I have heard these points before. :D
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john1984
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby john1984 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:32 am

So what do YOU think we should conclude from this research of yours???

That Dan Infalt has just been one lucky guy??? Just pure luck?? And all his students success stories over the years is just due to pure luck???? No matter what they say?????
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby grydsrt » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:49 am

Ok, beastly members, if you are content these GPS collar studies simply confirm exactly what you've been doing since learning about bed hunting then we'll leave it right here. Sorry for taking your time by posting the same thing you have all been saying/doing since then. Thanks for the good input.
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby <DK> » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:58 pm

Isn't this the guy who said his gear included various flavors of pop tarts and a bump helmet?
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Re: Public Techniques vs. GPS Collar Deer Study Results

Unread postby grydsrt » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:47 pm

<DK> wrote:Isn't this the guy who said his gear included various flavors of pop tarts and a bump helmet?

Yeah, lol. I’ve pared it down since. Thanks for the heads up re weight.


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