Wind Based Bedding is a LIE??

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Double Draw
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Re: Wind Based Bedding is a LIE??

Unread postby Double Draw » Tue May 21, 2019 4:03 pm

As I mature as a hunter and spend more and more time observing deer behavior with my own eyes I am learning that context is very important when it comes to understanding and assessing others' viewpoints and comments regarding deer/hunting. For example, Dan and most of us on the Beast begin with the bed in mind and work from there. For the vast majority of us there is also a strong public land element to what we have learned and therefore hold dear to our core beliefs. I know for Jeff Sturgis and the materials he has put out (a friend lent me one of his books a while ago) the starting point is food (i.e. food plot) with a strong private land element (though I know he has had success on public in his personal hunting). There is common ground on this issue and there is certainly some uniqueness as well. I would argue that bedding and food define a deer's life (let's set aside the rut for the moment) and movement between the two is where hunting comes into play. On public if you want a mature deer in most cases you are going to need to be near their bed, in an isolated spot everyone else has managed to overlook somehow, or catching him off guard the first few days of archery before he's felt much pressure. On private it is possible that mature bucks might reach their food destination during shooting hours if the landowner has minimized pressure. I think this is where context comes into play. In the referenced video (and Sturgis's book I read) he continually begins with food, then does/fawns, then young bucks, then mature bucks in an ever-widening semi-circle. Since he designs deer properties for a living his reference point is the parcel he's working on. And it may be that what he talks about is what he observes most frequently. I could see a mature buck choosing a lesser bed on a private parcel that has little to no pressure than a traditional, Beast-tactics style bed on pressured adjacent land (public or private). However, what stood out to me in his book was the centrality of food and for me this is the spot his philosophy is a bit oversimplified...in many places deer have numerous 'exceptional' food spots. Some places I know near me three neighbors on adjoining properties all have food plots and they are well cared for. How does the herd decide then which food serves as their reference point? For some doe families this might be easy if they bed really close to one plot but for mature bucks or deer farther from the 'food plot epicenter' it's far from that simple. Again, though, if you are focused on one property and a single client Sturgis's mentality may add up a good bit of the time. You don't know what you don't have, deer-wise, compared to the surrounding properties!
I think that is why we (most of us on here) lean towards bedding. On public the pressure makes it such that the back end of a deer's movement (food) often occurs later than on private. Further, many public lands have little to no premier food to key from. The best food for some deer may be aquatic plants, soft or hard mast in the fall, ag fields (which Sturgis ranks below the quality of a well-grown food plot) and even browse (a lot of bruisers grow on little more than browse much of the year especially in the north). I have consistently found the Beast core tactics Dan espouses to be true in most instances on the public I hunt. However, I know guys who consistently kill big public land bucks and wouldn't know how to find a deer bed to save their life.
One of the signs of maturity is when we get past the infatuation phase/star struck quality of someone and their views and are able to critique things based on our conditions/experience/context. Our personalities, hunting styles and life situations also come into play. I am grateful for everything I have learned on here and continue to learn. I also appreciate a few others who have influenced me since no one ever took me hunting or 'showed me the ropes'. But more and more I recognize the deer teach me and even rock-solid principles get violated by them in their quest to survive due to a million variables. And that makes hunting always an adventure to me. Can't get enough.


dan
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Re: Wind Based Bedding is a LIE??

Unread postby dan » Tue May 21, 2019 9:50 pm

If you look close at a bucks bed you can tell which way he is facing. Bucks do not bed facing the wind. They face down wind. They look one way, smell another. Wind based beds are shaped like the deer, you can see that they are facing down hill... Just like if someone was out to get you and was hunting you down you wouldn't face a wall and leave your back exposed, mature bucks are not going to leave a direction exposed that a predator can sneak up and get them... There are variations... Like thick walls of brush where a buck might bed facing the open woods wind to back from the brush like on farm bedding, but it still happens sometimes in certain spots on hills. Big bucks don't bed randomly... Period.

I think Jeff is probably hearing a lot of feedback about me scouting properties he had once scouted and set up. For whatever reason a lot of people who hire me to look at there properties already had Jeff there. And what I show them often contradicts what they have been told, or contradicts a lot of money they spent on habitat management... I like Jeff, but a lot of the things he does to properties makes me scratch my head based on what I know about buck bedding. He is not realizing how many people out there have tested what I preach with trail cameras and radio collars. I also think when you have been preaching wind don't matter to paying clients for decades its hard to tell all of them "sorry about all the money you spent, I was wrong"... He used to come on the BEAST here and post, if you search Im sure you will find some of his old posts.

I have accurately predicted where one certain buck will be bedded on public land on many occasions just based on wind direction and the layout of the ridges... They are right where they are supposed to be most of the time.
dan
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Re: Wind Based Bedding is a LIE??

Unread postby dan » Tue May 21, 2019 9:53 pm

Here is Jeff's profile, he has 113 posts on this site, you can read them by clicking "view user posts" in the profile: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1269
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Matt Gill
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Re: Wind Based Bedding is a LIE??

Unread postby Matt Gill » Wed May 22, 2019 12:41 am

I was subscribed to him on YouTube because I do think he has some good content but last week after he put that video out I unfollowed his page lol. I don’t think the guy is dumb but after finding dan it’s hard for me to listen and take seriously anyone who thinks bucks don’t utilize the wind to bed. :roll:
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megavites
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Re: Wind Based Bedding is a LIE??

Unread postby megavites » Wed May 22, 2019 1:06 am

I to used to read and view Jeff's video's....but I found that contradictions occurred in his material. Things like why you should make a kill plot and then another article on why you shouldn't??
His foodplot books diverge on topics as well. I'm not trying to bash or say he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I've just found a better way...the Beast! The knowledge here is eye opening.
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Lu Rome
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Re: Wind Based Bedding is a LIE??

Unread postby Lu Rome » Wed May 22, 2019 1:36 am

Tennhunter3 wrote:
Mature bucks take the best beds and the other small bucks surround it if the mature bucks allow. Which is why it appears young bucks are protecting the mature. Not really the case they just dont have enough rank to be in the bed they want to lay in.

The best beds are the ones that are protected, so the young bucks are indirectly protecting the mature bucks in these instances. It's the same in pronghorn when they bed as a group. The highest ranking does bed in the middle of the group and the lowest ranks bed on the outer edges, it's an adaptation for predation avoidance. Same happens with deer, it's just harder to observe. Highest ranks get the best beds, lower ones end up in the riskier beds and by default protect the others.

When you think about it, people are the same way. Highest "ranks" make their homes in safest places.
“Curiosity never killed the cat. The cat died from stupidity, or maybe an overdose of mice.” -The Old Man
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may21581
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Re: Wind Based Bedding is a LIE??

Unread postby may21581 » Wed May 22, 2019 1:47 am

It would just be crazy to think that a deers #1 defense is his nose and that he would just choose not to use it in some manor with wind and thermals. All the mature buck bedding I have found in hill country is 100 percent wind based in addition to the other needed elements. As a matter a fact when the bedding is very good and the wind is good and everything else lines up they become entrenched in these spots. When they are no longer around the next big boy takes it over, and that is a fact!
"Failure is the price for entry for achieving something great"
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BuckandRoll
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Re: Wind Based Bedding is a LIE??

Unread postby BuckandRoll » Wed May 22, 2019 2:30 am

This is exactly the reason I posted this thread up here. Lots of good insight and discussion. It is tough for those starting out (and sometime those who've been doing it a long time) to discern the BS from the truth. This is an excellent example of someone who clearly spends a invest a lot of time and money into deer but who seems to have some of the "facts" wrong. It makes you wonder what beliefs you have as a hunter that don't agree with reality. Challenging those beliefs, to me, is a central tenant of Beast style.


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