No buck hunting in Buffalo county?

[hambone]

I'll apologize up front, for lack of content in my post. I ain't on facebook but somehow the Hunting Beast FB homepage came up on my screen while reading the OP. That drip coffee pot sitting over the fire in front of Dan is exactly like the one I use 4or 5 times a day. That coffee pot is probably 50 yrs old, which is why I had to mention it.

[hambone]

I'll apologize up front, for lack of content in my post. I ain't on facebook but somehow the Hunting Beast FB homepage came up on my screen while reading the OP. That drip coffee pot sitting over the fire in front of Dan is exactly like the one I use 4or 5 times a day. That coffee pot is probably 50 yrs old, which is why I had to mention it.

[dan]

this is how the system works,,,, cdac makes recommendations, and the DNR, does try to assist them on their wishes. But you have to understand this, THE DNR DOES NOT MAKE ANY LEGAL DECISIONS..... The DNR only abides and works with the rules and strategy they are given..... The Wisconsin NRB is what sets the agendas, after reviews. It is the NRB, that will set the seasons etc..............

Check with reality,,,, there is no antlerless season coming to Buffalo County..... The cdac, is asking for more tools to use, to bring down the herd. Most of Buffalo County is private land, and they manage their land quite well. Also the farmers are given a lot of ag tags, so believe me, they can kill that herd down pretty good....... actually at my friends land, the farmers, have killed too many does, in his area.....

The economic impact of a antlerless system, would not do well for many in the county....

My opinion is that private landowners are doing a good job,,,, I can assure you first hand knowledge, that many in the DNR also think so,,,,,

My only disagreement with the cdac, is the holiday hunt, but hey you can not have everything,,,,,,

as for the govenors involvement,,, he is not,,,, right or wrong, he appointed his man to run the DNR, and he will let him run it. Mr.Cole came from the NRB so they have a good working relationship already....

Also the DNR , they are not spreading any alarms about disease etc. They are working on CWD, like everyone else in the country, but they are not running around, saying the sky is falling. For those of you who say they are, please show me the minutes of the meetings where that has been said

Everyone is trying to work for the best health of the herd.

As far as the governor having no impact on the WDNR, take a look at this old post: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4317&p=47345&hilit=ADOLF#p47345

[GranLightning16]

I think that’s where the problem lies, post CWD discovery, DNR isn’t going back to what we had before. At least not until, it’s proven that it won’t jump species barrier to humans and/or cause problems for big Ag.

There’s too much risk to even larger industries and society for them to just let it go.

[dan]

I think that’s where the problem lies, post CWD discovery, DNR isn’t going back to what we had before. At least not until, it’s proven that it won’t jump species barrier to humans and/or cause problems for big Ag.

There’s too much risk to even larger industries and society for them to just let it go.

If its that much of a risk you kill every deer, elk, moose, etc. in the world.... On the other hand, it was not a risk since the 1960's when it was discovered out West, and it has not effected the 100's of thousands probably actually millions who have eaten it, and it cannot be stopped... Culling makes it spread outward faster, nothing but totally eliminating every single deer will stop CWD, and even that won't stop it, cause its in the soil indefinably...

Let me point some things out to you that they don't want you to know...

CWD is likely every where... Its already been found in 26 US states, three Canadian provinces, Norway, Finland, Sweden, and South Korea... There are probably some Im forgetting? Do you know how its transferred? Thru saliva, urine, meat, blood, etc... It does not "die" so it passes right thru the digestive track... Eagles, vultures, crows, etc... Eat CWD prions and where ever they fly, could be thousands of miles, and walla, now you have CWD there. Its seeps into soil and stays there forever till consumed by a deer, elk, moose, etc. So, when trucks of soil are moved, CWD is moved... When tainted mud and clay get all over a truck, or stuck in the treads, It takes the CWD to where ever it goes, whatever state, that ever area... When the soil or a carcass gets washed into the Mississippi, or any other body of water, where ever the CWD tainted mud settles has CWD... All the bottles of deer urine getting sold at all the stores across the country, if one deer had cwd and its mixed into the giant vat, every bottle shipped out to every state, and every province, and every country where deer hunting is done, now have CWD... A woman researcher was hired by Doyles DNR staff to do research to prove culling slowed the spread of CWD. trouble was they were surprised to see that her findings showed that bucks greatly increased there home range to search for the few does when the population is lowered dramatically, spreading the disease outward faster. They promptly fired her...

Culling deer, and reducing numbers has not worked, and never will work to stop the spread of CWD... Its being used as an excuse to get to the main goal of lowering the population... I see no evidence to support the "legislature" is to blame, its the people in charge of the WDNR... and they are using the CDAC as scape goats to say "See, the CDAC are the ones that lowered the population" they are the ones saying lower the heard, or maintain the heard... If CDAC was really set up for hunter input, you would have the option of raising the population... CWD has nothing to do with it. Killing all the deer to save all the deer is idiotic. Its not a head cold... Kill every deer in the country and the disease is still here... You could never have them back... Either we manage a huntable population that makes the people of Wisconsin happy, or if its about a disease thats suddenly about to kill every human on earth so we kill all the deer... There really is no inbetween if your saying its cause of the extreme danger of the disease.

[GranLightning16]

Dan,

I guess that we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Looking at this solely from the eye of a hunter, you're probably right. Looking at it from the eye of someone (DNR, Governor, Representative, Senator, because lets face it, if people don't get what they want they run crying to these individuals to make laws) there are more groups involved than just hunters, and frankly hunters can't all agree with each other, so many of these other groups are much better off at pushing their agendas, and they seem to be get what they want at the expense of hunters fighting among themselves.

Have a good night. I enjoyed this discussion and continue to learn new things every day on this forum. Thanks for providing a place such as this to talk with others that enjoy hunting & the outdoors.

[UofLbowhunter]

I’d be okay with the one buck rule for sure. IMO it wouldn’t hurt to get rid of the online registration too. It’s way too easy to violate and take extra deer now. If you went to a one buck rule, there’d by even more violating. There aren’t enough wardens as it is. Additionally, businesses really benefited from hunters bringing their deer in to get registered. Personally I didn’t mind it at all.

Ive have said the same thing about ky online crap. Ya, Its a easy way to check in and puts fast imput out there about the numbers, but people take advantage of it, just because they dont have to visually be check in any more. More people than you think take advantage of it than you think, and for other dumb reasons as well.

[dan]

Dan,

I guess that we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Looking at this solely from the eye of a hunter, you're probably right. Looking at it from the eye of someone (DNR, Governor, Representative, Senator, because lets face it, if people don't get what they want they run crying to these individuals to make laws) there are more groups involved than just hunters, and frankly hunters can't all agree with each other, so many of these other groups are much better off at pushing their agendas, and they seem to be get what they want at the expense of hunters fighting among themselves.

Have a good night. I enjoyed this discussion and continue to learn new things every day on this forum. Thanks for providing a place such as this to talk with others that enjoy hunting & the outdoors.

Thanks for your input... I think there are far more people who would like great hunting, than those who want to lower the population... And those who disagree have mainly been brainwashed into believing a skewed one sided bias about CWD... By the way, I got most of my info about CWD from WDNR Biologists, and outside Biologists. The ones within the WDNR say what they are told to say "on the record" but tell the truth to there friends...( not sure if you saw the confidential letter to DNR staff I posted threatening them to keep there opinions to themselves? it was in that link I posted) I do appreciate your input though. Its nice to be able to have discussions like this, but if you follow the discussion, lowering the population was blamed on the legislature, and I still have yet to see anything to back that up. They might make a law to help with goals, but they did not set those goals. The WDNR Biologists (who are forced to go along with the system whether they agree or not) and the CDAC that is supposed to be representing the people of the state, like me, are the real people responsible for my hunting getting ruined are the ones doing this... They can say farmers want the deer dead, well, good for them, let hunters on your land and kill the deer on your land, most farmers I know like deer, and like hunting. Insurance companies can raise there rates if there not happy, the majority of this state wants a large population of deer to hunt. We need someone to actually represent the hunters of this state rather than the special interests pushing population agendas. But, as said before, when we pushed for this, they hand picked some "hunters" to run CDAC and told them your only option is to lower the herd, then when the DNR is confronted, "Its not us, its CDAC and the Legislators". There is a good reason they don't want me on CDAC... I can't be pushed into doing the wrong thing and I am very educated in CWD and wildlife managment.

[dan]

Im trying not to offend anyone... My brutal honesty has a way of getting me in trouble from time to time, but Im not trying to... Just being honest. I appreciate those of you trying to make a difference by going to meetings, joining CDAC, ETC. Just trying to get you to open your eyes to see outside of the box they have you in.

Lets take a quick look at how and why CDAC got implemented...

Back in the days of Jim Doyles WDNR the hunters of Wisconsin were very angry about seeing so few deer state wide. They were blaming the WDNR for issues with wolves and other predators in the northwoods, and with CWD eradication / EAB in the south. They were simply fed up with the extremely low population of deer. Right about the time the anger and lack of trust was building with The WDNR a new Governor took office. Scott Walker. Scott received thousands of letters and calls requesting he step in and do something to give the hunters a voice. And he did... He mandated that they form an oversight committee to address hunter concerns...

Walkers failure though, was that he trusted the WDNR to pick and run that committee which they called an advisory board... I have to say, if any other political department or government official had to have an oversight committee, no way would we allow them to pick their own... If there was a mandate for an oversight committee to look into Hilary Clintons "Clinton foundation" would you not raise an eyebrow if she was allowed to pick her personal accountant and lawyer to run it?

The advisory committee was formed to voice hunter concerns about low population... Not to vote lower, or lower some more... It was not the intention, but by hand picking puppets who will do what there told just so they can brag they are on the committee, they fool them into believing their job is to lower the population...

My representative in Jefferson county should be voted in by the residents of Jefferson county, and should be addressing the concerns of those who voted him in... Period. We need representatives that call B.S. when they see B.S. That's why this committee was formed.

Its really not about deer management. Its about politics.

[greenhorndave]

Dan, I find your last post highly offensive... To bureaucrats! But I ain’t one of them.

I find this side of the deer hunting world very interesting. Not as interesting as the hunting part, but I've certainly learned a lot from everyone's take on the issue.

I agree with the part about local representation. Like many local elections, though, I'm not sure how engaged and/or infomed hunters would be on electing representatives. It's tough for an Average Joe like me to stay plugged in to all of it, although this place is the best resource I've found.

In all, a lot of darned-if-you-do, darned-if-you-don't. I can see seemingly minor issues splintering advocates while the potential anti-hunting bureaucrats are united.

In any case, I appreciate the insight from everyone. It's been illuminating.

[Dewey]

I just wanted to add that it wasn’t EAB that killed off the deer in much of WI. It was the unlimited antlerless tags that did most of the damage. EAB when used properly is a good tool. We never had EAB in the Northwoods so can’t blame the extremely low deer population on that. Due to T-Zone hunts that were allowed to continue on at least 3-4 years longer than was needed back in the early to mid 2000’s the herd was just about wiped out. I know guys up there that were killing up to 20 antlerless deer per season only because they could with unlimited tags. Add in predators and a few bad winters and this damage never recovered and likely never will.

Also unlimited EAB in some counties of southern WI did a bunch of damage to the buck population. Guys were taking advantage of this and killing does only with the purpose of piling up a bunch of bucks to satisfy their ego. Same as up north with killing antlerless deer I also know some that were killing up to 5 bucks a year with most of them being small racked but also some guys killing multiple big bucks. That management was more geared toward eliminating CWD but failed miserably and only hurt the deer herd more than CWD ever would have.

Both cases are really bad deer management IMO. Anytime something is unlimited there is a certain group that will exploit it and do a lot of damage to the herd. Killing without limits is never a good thing.

It’s a tough situation and there are arguments for both sides of the discussion. Many like to blame the DNR or the government but fact is as hunters it’s up to us to do what is right. Just because you can do something that doesn’t always make it right.

[dan]

I just wanted to add that it wasn’t EAB that killed off the deer in much of WI. It was the unlimited antlerless tags that did most of the damage. EAB when used properly is a good tool. We never had EAB in the Northwoods so can’t blame the extremely low deer population on that. Due to T-Zone hunts that were allowed to continue on at least 3-4 years longer than was needed back in the early to mid 2000’s the herd was just about wiped out. I know guys up there that were killing up to 20 antlerless deer per season only because they could with unlimited tags. Add in predators and a few bad winters and this damage never recovered and likely never will.

Also unlimited EAB in some counties of southern WI did a bunch of damage to the buck population. Guys were taking advantage of this and killing does only with the purpose of piling up a bunch of bucks to satisfy their ego. Same as up north with killing antlerless deer I also know a some that were killing up to 5 bucks a year with most of them being small racked but also some guys killing multiple big bucks. That management was more geared toward eliminating CWD but failed miserably and only hurt the deer herd more than CWD ever would have.

Both cases are really bad deer management IMO. Anytime something is unlimited there is a certain group that will exploit it and do a lot of damage to the herd. Killing without limits is never a good thing.

It’s a tough situation and there are arguments for both sides of the discussion. Many like to blame the DNR or the government but fact is as hunters it’s up to us to do what is right. Just because you can do something that doesn’t always make it right.

That last sentance Dewey... Its hunters pulling the trigger. Well with EAB, if your on the property that don't have the does, your forced to either shoot that doe to get your buck tag. Or give up hunting. That don't seem like the hunters fault to me... I think there is hardly anywhere in this state that needs a lower population. But, If such a place exists, give a free doe tag with the hunting license and let the hunter decide. If there gets to be a lot of does around most guys will shoot one if they have a tag... Just don't force them. IMHO

[Dewey]

I just wanted to add that it wasn’t EAB that killed off the deer in much of WI. It was the unlimited antlerless tags that did most of the damage. EAB when used properly is a good tool. We never had EAB in the Northwoods so can’t blame the extremely low deer population on that. Due to T-Zone hunts that were allowed to continue on at least 3-4 years longer than was needed back in the early to mid 2000’s the herd was just about wiped out. I know guys up there that were killing up to 20 antlerless deer per season only because they could with unlimited tags. Add in predators and a few bad winters and this damage never recovered and likely never will.

Also unlimited EAB in some counties of southern WI did a bunch of damage to the buck population. Guys were taking advantage of this and killing does only with the purpose of piling up a bunch of bucks to satisfy their ego. Same as up north with killing antlerless deer I also know a some that were killing up to 5 bucks a year with most of them being small racked but also some guys killing multiple big bucks. That management was more geared toward eliminating CWD but failed miserably and only hurt the deer herd more than CWD ever would have.

Both cases are really bad deer management IMO. Anytime something is unlimited there is a certain group that will exploit it and do a lot of damage to the herd. Killing without limits is never a good thing.

It’s a tough situation and there are arguments for both sides of the discussion. Many like to blame the DNR or the government but fact is as hunters it’s up to us to do what is right. Just because you can do something that doesn’t always make it right.

That last sentance Dewey... Its hunters pulling the trigger. Well with EAB, if your on the property that don't have the does, your forced to either shoot that doe to get your buck tag. Or give up hunting. That don't seem like the hunters fault to me... I think there is hardly anywhere in this state that needs a lower population. But, If such a place exists, give a free doe tag with the hunting license and let the hunter decide. If there gets to be a lot of does around most guys will shoot one if they have a tag... Just don't force them. IMHO

I can’t speak for Buffalo County since I never hunted there but in general private landowners all around the state want to protect “their” deer and won’t kill does no matter how many free tags they are given. I think this is why they are trying scare tactics by saying they will close buck hunting. Very unlikely that will ever happen but I’m sure it will scare enough guys into going along with the antlerless reduction plan. They tried the same thing last year in Waupaca County by threatening to close the season to bucks. Not sure how that turned out. Interested to see if the kill was up on antlerless deer. I will have to look that up.

I drive all around the state often and it’s pretty obvious there are some pockets that have extremely high deer populations and the huge amount of road kill reflects that. Problem is the management now goes county by county and that isn’t an exact science. One side of a county can have a very high population and the other side has almost no deer. There is no easy way to manage that. It’s unfair that guys hunting in the lower population areas have to live by the same rules even though they are in the same county. No idea how that can be fixed but shows the challenges the DNR has. No way possible they can please everybody. I’m just glad that antlerless tags by county are now limited to a certain number. The unlimited tags put a huge amount of strain on public lands in the past. That is one step in the right direction.

[dan]

I just wanted to add that it wasn’t EAB that killed off the deer in much of WI. It was the unlimited antlerless tags that did most of the damage. EAB when used properly is a good tool. We never had EAB in the Northwoods so can’t blame the extremely low deer population on that. Due to T-Zone hunts that were allowed to continue on at least 3-4 years longer than was needed back in the early to mid 2000’s the herd was just about wiped out. I know guys up there that were killing up to 20 antlerless deer per season only because they could with unlimited tags. Add in predators and a few bad winters and this damage never recovered and likely never will.

Also unlimited EAB in some counties of southern WI did a bunch of damage to the buck population. Guys were taking advantage of this and killing does only with the purpose of piling up a bunch of bucks to satisfy their ego. Same as up north with killing antlerless deer I also know a some that were killing up to 5 bucks a year with most of them being small racked but also some guys killing multiple big bucks. That management was more geared toward eliminating CWD but failed miserably and only hurt the deer herd more than CWD ever would have.

Both cases are really bad deer management IMO. Anytime something is unlimited there is a certain group that will exploit it and do a lot of damage to the herd. Killing without limits is never a good thing.

It’s a tough situation and there are arguments for both sides of the discussion. Many like to blame the DNR or the government but fact is as hunters it’s up to us to do what is right. Just because you can do something that doesn’t always make it right.

That last sentance Dewey... Its hunters pulling the trigger. Well with EAB, if your on the property that don't have the does, your forced to either shoot that doe to get your buck tag. Or give up hunting. That don't seem like the hunters fault to me... I think there is hardly anywhere in this state that needs a lower population. But, If such a place exists, give a free doe tag with the hunting license and let the hunter decide. If there gets to be a lot of does around most guys will shoot one if they have a tag... Just don't force them. IMHO

I can’t speak for Buffalo County since I never hunted there but in general private landowners all around the state want to protect “their” deer and won’t kill does no matter how many free tags they are given. I think this is why they are trying scare tactics by saying they will close buck hunting. Very unlikely that will ever happen but I’m sure it will scare enough guys into going along with the antlerless reduction plan. They tried the same thing last year in Waupaca County by threatening to close the season to bucks. Not sure how that turned out. Interested to see if the kill was up on antlerless deer. I will have to look that up.

I drive all around the state often and it’s pretty obvious there are some pockets that have extremely high deer populations and the huge amount of road kill reflects that. Problem is the management now goes county by county and that isn’t an exact science. One side of a county can have a very high population and the other side has almost no deer. There is no easy way to manage that. It’s unfair that guys hunting in the lower population areas have to live by the same rules even though they are in the same county. No idea how that can be fixed but shows the challenges the DNR has. No way possible they can please everybody. I’m just glad that antlerless tags by county are now limited to a certain number. The unlimited tags put a huge amount of strain on public lands in the past. That is one step in the right direction.

I just don't see why the WDNR should be trying to force a land owner to kill does on private property if the land owner wants them there. he could develop the land, he could cut down every tree and level the place, but he is not allowed to let the does be, if he is so inclined? Must drive those WDNR people crazy that non-hunters that don't allow hunting don't kill does. I know people who don't hunt, and don't allow hunting cause they simply like to watch animals... Those people the WDNR has no problem with... But us hunters, we have to be forced lower the population and kill does no matter what our property has, or is.

[trapper57]

It’s impressive that Wisconsin is number one in Boone and Crockett entries with the government management being so poor.
We have great genetics and habitat.
Can you imagine what it could be with the right management?
It goes to show you what private land owners and managers are doing despite poor government management.
Luckily we also have the thicker and tougher remote public lands to withstand some of the pressure.