Q&A with muddy

[burtle]

Great read!

[NYBackcountry]

This is great, you definitely answered the question and put some puzzle pieces together that I have been thinking on for a bit. I hunt them very similar to this, top of the draw but usually off to one side or the other. In the ADKs I find the majority of my doe bedding on the points at the end of ridge systems. Many times at both ends. I've observed bucks bouncing back and forth, running the ridges back and forth to those bedding areas, the tricky part for me has been figuring out how to use those draws to my advantage. I think, in general, I may be to low to one side. Im going to toy around with some sets higher up on the flats above them this year.

Peter's scenario just sent off a huge lightbulb, so in his case wind was coming up the draw to him at the tops of each one? I may throw some sits at the windward sides of a few of the ridge systems I hunt. With the majority of traffic being on the opposite side, but the ultimate goal being the doe bedding at each opposite end of the ridge it doesnt matter which side of the ridge you run to get there. The windward side would give you an opportunity to scent check all of the draws on that side as you go. Thanks for the reply!

The wind WAS blowing up the draw and towards him. He was bedded up in the grass on higher elevation and the wind brought him all the scents from that big valley/draw. The 3 draws actually joined into 1 about 150 yards N of him so was he bedding there on purpose? Maybe? The stupid thing is that 150 yards S of where he was bedded there is a well used gravel road and a lumber mill. Later that year I walked out and found where he was lying down. I crouched down to see things from his perspective... to the N I could see up that middle draw and to the S was a slight rise. I could see the rooftop of the mill but everything else was obscured. This buck was PERFECTLY positioned, it was crazy, and it blew my mind.

I'm glad this helped... I'll even elaborate on the draw that had the creek in it, maybe it'll offer some more insight.

The area I was hunting "TreeShaker" had a connecting draw. This draw was very sparsely wooded and ran N/S about 500 yards between pine planting and a large patch of CRP. Half of it was boarded by grass and half by row crops. Since there were barely any trees the bucks were walking in the tile drainage. This "creek" was maybe 10 ft wide and just deep enough you couldn't see them at all. I had 1 spot that I could sit, only 1 stick up in a beanpole tree. I passed so many bucks that were wading knee deep down this drainage it was ridiculous. Looking back I still shake my head at how many bucks stayed down in the creek while many doe groups stayed up in the open fields. I believe this was a once in a lifetime spot, I really doubt i'll ever come across something like this again.

I'll keep thinking for more specifics to share.. I know there are more but I really lose interest typing in my phone after 45 minutes!!

No worries, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. It brings up another thought, im going to need to put more time identifying if there is bedding in the draws themselves. That will have a huge impact on setups, it also makes me think about some of my access in the mountains and foothills I hunt. I may reconsider entering from the bottom of the draws on some my spots this season, especially on afternoon hunts.

[greenhorndave]

Thanks for the back-and-forth NY and Muddy. It helps the rest of us observers as well.

[muddy]

Thanks for the back-and-forth NY and Muddy. It helps the rest of us observers as well.

I'm just really content that people are taking something away from my post. Initially I was really hesitant to write something up.

[greenhorndave]

Thanks for the back-and-forth NY and Muddy. It helps the rest of us observers as well.

I'm just really content that people are taking something away from my post. Initially I was really hesitant to write something up.

Glad you did. It’s really helpful.

[muddy]

I recently received a PM about my grape vine mock scrapes. Figured I'd post the questions/answers and add some pics since all the others got lost in the server switch.

What type of vine do you like? What camera settings do you have? I figure the vine may cause false triggers. What area do you think works best?

The vines I'm using are what I call "grape vines", but I'm honestly not sure what they are. They're the type of vine that grows up into a tree, and eventually chokes it out. I cut a "nasty bunch" and then tie 3 or 4 main 1/2" to 1.5" vines together. I will also tie in some smaller ones with leaves to give it a more natural look. I zip tie/wire them tight up high and then looser at the bottom so they can move more freely. Here are some examples of freshly hung vines with mock scrapes under them. I usually use a scrape dropper to get them going or else a scent wick to get them going. After that I just pee in them to freshen them up.

20190805_180042.jpg

I put my camera 10-15 yards away and have it set on 3-5 pic burst mode. I have had does hitting the licking stick and caught bucks walking in behind them that I otherwise wouldn't have got pics of. I usually delay it 5 minutes in between shots. The vines sometimes cause false triggers but only in the wind and no more than other things, just part of the game. I prefer to set these things up near trail intersections, creek bottoms, tractor trails, etc. Really anywhere that you get a lot of deer moving thru will work, once they start using them they keep using them year round as scent posts.

I set them up so the lowest branch tip is about 5' off the ground. If I can wire them in place I prefer to do that as sometimes you get a youngster that REALLY gets after it and breaks them out of the tree. As season progresses to late October I start to trim out anything with leaves on it and get it just to 1-3 main vines hanging down. The pic above has leaves and all sorts of crap on them. I do this because it entices any deer to come check it out, hence more scent from their eye and mouth glands. Once established you can see on cam pics that they start using 1 or 2 licking sticks and I trim out the excess. Here's some as the year gets further along, see the leaves have been smashed out on .most.

20190805_180042.jpg

20190805_175539.jpg

20190805_175531.jpg

As rut blows thru I find the bucks dont use them as much but the does still do, keeping the bucks in the area. I had some really cool pics of does using the licking stick and minutes later a buck walks by on pic 1 of 3 and doesn't stop to paw around. By the time late season rules around I found it really cool that all deer would scent mark the bigger vines as they walked by, as if ti say "how do, who's still out there?" . By now the vines are beat down to 1 or 2 main vines, everything else is gone.

20190805_175603.jpg

20190805_175555.jpg

20190805_175548.jpg

Hope this helps the guy that messaged me and anyone else prepping up some vines for mock scrapes. We're still a month or 2 out before I feel its time to get them going. I cut fresh stuff early/mid October. For the record, since I dont hunt over them I dont worry much about scent. They're for inventory purposes and theres plenty of human scent around but the scrape drippers out fresh stuff down for a week after I leave.

[SplitG2]

Excellent read Muddy, enjoyed it very much. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

A couple things you mentioned that I absolutely loved and its an excellent characterization of the members on this website is, I remember the days when "fitting in" in the deer hunting world was so important. Wanting to be seen as a "big buck killer" and "the greatest hunter who ever lived", so to speak......boy was I stupid when i was younger. And don't get me started on how mad I used to get about not filling my buck tag on various year......of course, it was always the deers fault and never mine. It's refreshing knowing that there are many of us out there now that don't have to "fit in" and, altho we may get a little bummed, don't fret over not filling a tag and see an unsuccessful hunt just as great, if not better than a successful hunt. I think it's important for new and younger hunters to know this stuff. Know that it's ok to suck sometimes, everybody does, some are even champions at it but that doesn't mean that they don't have the skill, patience, appreciation and passion to be successful with hunting. Thanks again

[tbunao]

Milkweed

[muddy]

Excellent read Muddy, enjoyed it very much. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

A couple things you mentioned that I absolutely loved and its an excellent characterization of the members on this website is, I remember the days when "fitting in" in the deer hunting world was so important. Wanting to be seen as a "big buck killer" and "the greatest hunter who ever lived", so to speak......boy was I stupid when i was younger. And don't get me started on how mad I used to get about not filling my buck tag on various year......of course, it was always the deers fault and never mine. It's refreshing knowing that there are many of us out there now that don't have to "fit in" and, altho we may get a little bummed, don't fret over not filling a tag and see an unsuccessful hunt just as great, if not better than a successful hunt. I think it's important for new and younger hunters to know this stuff. Know that it's ok to suck sometimes, everybody does, some are even champions at it but that doesn't mean that they don't have the skill, patience, appreciation and passion to be successful with hunting. Thanks again

I used to be the "champion of suck" back in the day for sure!

Nice signature line. I have had that as a signature in Iowawhitetail since 2001 when I joined that site.

[muddy]

Milkweed

Not this week, I'm on detox after a LONG weekend!

[Uncle Lou]

Good read. I enjoyed our discussion at the Iowa Deer Classic in 2019 as well. Can't wait until we get back to expos and shows and public gatherings.