Q&A with muddy

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muddy
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby muddy » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:53 am

Q) I have struggled ths past few years zoning in, although I think I am getting it with time and scouting. I was wondering if there were certain setups that always catch you eye, or how you go about picking spots? Is it based on trails, sign, things you have seen, reading the land, topography, thick draws, etc.? You clearly have a gift for killing whitetail, and I know we have some high caliber bucks here, I just never seen to catch up to them. 

Any insight or advise would be awesome.


A) I guess when I'm putting boots on the ground during coyote, shed,or turkey hunting I always have whitetails in the back of my mind. I pick my spots based on all of the things you mentioned, but putting the puzzle together can be tricky depending on what piece you find first. Usually I find the rubs or scrapes first as they're the most visible things. By taking a moment to look around it can be fairly simple to look at the layout of the area and decide where bedding might be. I'll make mental notes on where I think bedding is and simply just start walking. This usually leads to the location of at least 1 bedding area, and the trails associated with it, as well as the buck sign. I've come to see that of I'm finding old buck sign in Jan-March chances are it'll happen again that following fall, especially in these small drainages an ditches I get into. Only a few secure areas, and they dont get up and leave usually.

Taking another look at the land layout generally gives a guy an idea of how deer will use the ground to their advantage, both bedding and travelling to other bedding/feeding areas. I'll circle the bedding and find the best trails coming out and make note of what winds will work here, then move on, taking notes on how the topography of the land creates funnels or pinch points. I dont worry about busting deer out because its usually after season and I only plan to make the one trip through the area. The only thing I make sure is to cover as much as possible, and if I cant I leave and come back another day when I can.

When I get home from my stomp I will get on Google Earth and look at everything again and make my stand decisions based on all the trails I found, any scrape lines, and coordinate them with the bedding areas. If possible I like to set up between 2 or 3 bedding areas and quite a ways downwind. Since I hunt a lot of draws it's really common to see a buck cruise all the way down one side of my draw and then come back up the far downwind side where I'm at to recheck areas that thermals are not in his favor.

At the end of the day I print out maps and make actual notes on what I found. The i'll add my own thoughts and speculations on why I think deer are doing what they're doing... might be good mast crop, corn field nearby, flooding this year, new walking path cut in, etc. I ALWAYS revisit my notes come fall.

It's a big chess match really, that's why I use observation stands further away than where I sometimes plan to actually get a shot. I can observe does and dinks moving around in "real time" and then pop back in a day or 3 later and put myself in a better position for a check mate.


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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby muddy » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:22 pm

Here are some questions for you, if you don't mind sharing?

1) What time of year do you see the most action on funnels with rubs, scrapes, etc? Late-Oct, Early-Nov, or Mid/Late-Nov. (WE HAVE AN INSANE RIFLE SEASON THAT KICKS OFF MID-NOVEMBER)

For me I see most of that type of action late Oct to early Nov and my trail cams show this as well. Weather doesnt seem to push this pattern off unless it's crazy warm, but even then the action is still there, just early morning,late afternoon, and nocturnal. To break that down a bit more I'd say late October is best for rubs/scrapes around my area. I love that last week of October cold front (like most of us) as it really gets those bucks up on their feet,but I still dont see big mature deer getting crazy until Nov.

I'd say we hit lock down phase around Nov 10th and scrapes and rubs are generally ignored, except by younger deer, 4 and under.

2) What types of funnels are you looking for in timbered hills? 

Funnels based around sharp points or steep ditch/valleys are my favorite. I REALLY get excited if I find a big timbered flat on top of a point that has 2 steeper valleys on either side of it. Generally I find that one BIG trail going from valley A to Valley B going up over that flat and camp there based on winds and thermals. A hardwood flat in this situation is just BEGGING for does to live in and sooner or later bucks will find them. What also draws me to these spots is the fact a mobile guy can hunt the same cruising spot multiple days in a row just by bumping 50-100 yards here or there depending on wind.

Old fence lines or old logging roads are also big factors where I'm at that can create funnels in an otherwise open timber. Brush tends to grow up around the fences and road edges and eventually deer beat down their preferred paths to get around the fence or road curve.

A hiking path can also create a funnel or transition point. I had one stand that was on the top of a flat just 50 yards from a hiking path. Deer would come up the normal path and as soon as their sight line would break the hill they'd stop and watch that hiking trail. Once they determined it was safe they'd run up over the hill, cross the path, and run for another 50 yards before slowing to a walk and continuing on their way. This was a GREAT spot, passed a lot of younger 3 and 4 year old deer but never closed the deal on a big boy.

On another farm just a simple spot where hardwoods meet pine trees caused a great funnel. The hardwoods had a lot of thicker understory and the pines did not. Deer would oftentimes walk around all that thick crap and take the easy path for a ways before going back into the nasty. Bucks loved to cruise the pines and scent check the nasty for does. Love that spot.

I'd be remiss if I didn't say something about getting up close to a house or farm building. Some of my places are REALLY close to a building and deer KNOW when it's safe to wander through the area. When the farmer, or landowner, leaves in the morning those deer know it and wont bat an eye to cruise up next to an open yard.

3) Do you ever focus on small swamps? If so, are you on the edge of the swamp, or down in?

I stay away from swamps and marshes, but some of the timber I hunt gets flooded or has marshy areas on the boarders. Down by the water the wind is very swirly so I stay up on timber flats and let the deer come to me.

4) How early do you get to stand in the morning for a rut hunt?

Ha!! In a perfect world I'm set up 30-60 minutes before shooting light. This past year I never made it in early because I tagged out before my rutcation. Usually I get to the stand around 0800-0900 after kids get dropped at school. This year I killed my target buck at 0920 in the morning. I started walking in at 0815, arrived at tree around 0845, and was set up around 0900. He was dead at 0918, just luck of the draw I suppose.
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby muddy » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:23 pm

5) Do you hunt evenings during the rut?

Yup, I sure do, I love evening hunts! If I'm not doing an all day set then I choose my evening hunt based on wind, thermals, and ease of leaving. A lot of the time I use am evening set to "check an area out" in hope that I see a big cruiser to move in on the next day. I love to hunt field edges (especially after rain) and where I can see long distances. I sort of prefer morning or mid day hunts,but of my last 4 kills they all came in the last 45 minutes of shooting light.


6) Do you put more focus on one type of sign in the spring when scouting?

Heavy trails more than anything. Rubs and scrapes can pop up anywhere, but those heavy beaten paths never move. If I can find many intersecting trails all the better, I love to hunt near a good wagon wheel of trails.

7) How do you hunt on variable wind days?

By thermals for the most part, I despise "light and variable" winds but for a couple hours in the morning and evening the thermals will take care of you for the most part. When the wind sucks it's not uncommon for me to say screw it and not hunt, especially if the next day is going to have better conditions. Why force a situation where you'll most likely get screwed by the wind and then educate the buck, and regret the decision?

8) Do you prep areas in the spring, or just pick out trees that will work and leave the area alone?

I rarely prep areas for set stands. The past 5 years I've cleaned out a couple spots that had existing stands and only prepped one spot aside from them. The rest of my sets were hang and hunts an 3 of my last 4 kills were in hang and hunts.
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby NYBackcountry » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:53 pm

Thanks Muddy 8-)
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:50 pm

I got a question for ya Muddy!

It seems that when a hunter slays a dragon in your neck of the woods, hunters from the other 49 states all say the same thing. Ya, but he hunts in Iowa. Does that ever get under your skin or take anything away from your personnel feeling of accomplishment?

I would be willing to bet percentage wise just as many hunters eat tag soup in Iowa as most other states. Will say a 3 year old in Iowa will have better headgear than a deer of equal age in other parts of the country. But my thought is if a guy can't get on that age class in his own backyard it's prob not gonna happen in Iowa either. Unless the rumors are true and there really is Giants behind every bush.

What about the guys who come from out of state and shoot a 2.5 120ish buck that everyone else let's walk, then goes back to there home state telling everyone how easy it is. Does this tick any of the locals off?

Just curious....
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby muddy » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:15 pm

Boogieman1 wrote:I got a question for ya Muddy!

It seems that when a hunter slays a dragon in your neck of the woods, hunters from the other 49 states all say the same thing. Ya, but he hunts in Iowa. Does that ever get under your skin or take anything away from your personnel feeling of accomplishment?



No, I could really care less because I know how much work goes into each kill. My friends down here know how much work I put into each kill. Sure, some years are easier than others, but the "but there's a booner around every tree" saying just isn't true. Not wanting to sound arrogant but it takes skill to get into the bucky areas in any state, it takes discipline to stick to personal goals and let smaller deer pass, and it takes even more nerves and skill to make that shot count if you can stick it out long enough for it to present itself. When I let an arrow go it's the culmination of so many factors of personal hard work that nothing anybody can say will bring me down. About the only person that can do that to me, is me... a.k.a. ground shrinkage of the rack or deer.


Boogieman1 wrote:I would be willing to bet percentage wise just as many hunters eat tag soup in Iowa as most other states. Will say a 3 year old in Iowa will have better headgear than a deer of equal age in other parts of the country. But my thought is if a guy can't get on that age class in his own backyard it's prob not gonna happen in Iowa either. Unless the rumors are true and there really is Giants behind every bush.


I agree with this, 3 year old deer down here can be scary big when compared to many states. I also agree that if a guy doesnt have what it takes back home, spending that $700 for an Iowa tag will likely be a waste of money unless they get lucky.



Boogieman1 wrote:What about the guys who come from out of state and shoot a 2.5 120ish buck that everyone else let's walk, then goes back to there home state telling everyone how easy it is. Does this tick any of the locals off?


That's situational really. Most of the guys I chum around with in small group private snapchat or FB groups dont care in the least what some guy out of state shoots, especially if it's their best deer ever. Sure others get miffed, but most guys will say congrats to the hunter in my experiences. You gotta be a real deekwad to put a guy down for shooting his biggest buck ever, even if you yourself passed it the other day.
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby Ack » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:01 pm

Question for you Muddy (and this could be added to the original list)........

Do you have any one particular spot that you have killed, or have had chances to kill, several of your bucks?

Maybe some details about what makes it a solid spot year after year, and how you happened upon said spot.
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby muddy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:00 am

Ack wrote:Question for you Muddy (and this could be added to the original list)........

Do you have any one particular spot that you have killed, or have had chances to kill, several of your bucks?


Yes, I sure do!! In fact I have a couple spots like that.

Ack wrote:Maybe some details about what makes it a solid spot year after year, and how you happened upon said spot.


One spot was just by normal scouting. It is on the N/S fence on the E side of my property. On the E side of the fence is open cow pasture and on the W side a cow fence comes to a point on top of a ridge and there is a 40 yard wide strip of timber connecting the N and S parts of timber. There is also a tractor path accessing N to S. Its about as perfect of a funnel as you'll get because to the N and S of my stand the hill drops down pretty significantly so thermals make it bomb proof any morning. Evenings are different, but I've killed 3 good deer out of that stand.

Another spot I have is on public. An open field corner, on a brushy point, where 2 ridges come up and meet in the brush. Most every deer avoids the open and once inside the timber the draws are steep enough they go up the two points. This place is awesome, have killed 3 good bucks there too, but haven't been there in a couple years because of idiots showing up. I found this spot by regular off season scouting. I may yet go back there this spring and check it out
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby muddy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:19 am

Q) Intersting about field edges in the rain. I figured most beasts stay clear of field edges, and why in the rain? Is this mainly an observation sit, that leads to a morning hunt? What type of field edge are you working, cut corn, crp, beans, etc? 

A) To elaborate I dont hunt edges during a rain, I like to hunt right AFTER a rain, generally this coincides with a cold front going through. I'm also concentrating my efforts when it's late Oct and pre-rut. Bucks aren't cruising yet and after a lying in a bed,during a soaker, all day bucks will be visiting scrapes to freshen them up. Most times these scrapes are are on these field edges that I'm observing. Does also tend to get up and move to feed a little earlier after a long day of rain as well... where there are does there are bucks.


Q) I think what gets me tripped up every year is my mindset. The does pound the fields in the last hour of evening and first hour of day, so I am always working wood lots real close to fields, which almost never pans out. For some reason I can't help myself, and getting into these lots undetected is so hard. I feel like I need to dive deeper into the timberred hills where these major trails exist. 

I have also developed the mindset that big bucks would never use a heavy trail, but the more I scout, this is where the most attractive sign is.

A) If you're seeing does pound these fields, but not bucks, then I'm assuming you're there early season when bucks just are too lazy to get up and move much. I guess if it were me I'd throw some cams up on those edges over some mock scrapes and just see what is living there and what time they're frequenting the fields. My bet is that there's mostly nocturnal movement. If bucks are getting there during daylight they're likely transitioning inside the timber and watching the does from a distance.

Not knowing how big these "lots" are it's hard to say how far I'd suggest pushing in. If you do decide to do it you need to develop an entrance and exit plan that won't alert too many deer to your presence. It sounds to me you're hunting these areas too much during early season with no real plan. You need to get into the heavier/thicker stuff and that's going to take some boot leather. Set aside a day or two and walk around your field perimeters then head into the timber and parallel the field edge for a ways and mark trails on a map. Move further away on those trails and find where they intersect other trails and bedding and transitions, mark it down, rinse and repeat. Eventually you'll see a pattern from your notes and where you need to be. Maybe someone else can interject some more info as well.
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby Jdaukontas » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:39 am

:clap:
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby muddy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:12 am

This was PMd to me in response to the previous questions. New guys, dont be afraid to ask questions, even if you think they may be mundane.

Did I answer, clear up, the things you had questions about?

""YES! This is gold! I wish more successful beasts would really hit home on some of their tactics the way you have. I have now come to believe that my process is working, I just need to trust it more. Also, You have eluded to what I think is the biggest problem for new mobile hunters like myself. We aren't really sure of a plan so we do a lot of wandering in early season, hurting the ground in the process. By the time the rut rolls around, we have burned out the area, or still don't trust what we have put together, and deviate from the plan.

I am so guilty of this.

Moral of all your help:

I need to spend more time scouting and coming up with a concrete plan, and then stick to it. Unless you are on completely virgin ground, I think that having an access plan, hunting spot plan, and exit plan is so important and where I have failed the most. Thanks for everything!""


As stated in my original post...

"plan to execute, then execute the plan"
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby tgreeno » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:09 am

I noticed many of the experienced beasts on here, have repeated success in the same spots over many years. Historically great spots. I know these spot are great because they have everything a mature buck wants! Could you describe your spots like this, and why you think you are always so good year after year?
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:43 am

You"re an Adonis of hunting & a Beastly Man - Sir Mudster!
Gr8 input thx for sharing
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby muddy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:06 am

tgreeno wrote:I noticed many of the experienced beasts on here, have repeated success in the same spots over many years. Historically great spots. I know these spot are great because they have everything a mature buck wants! Could you describe your spots like this, and why you think you are always so good year after year?


Some of my best spots are hidden in plain sight. 1 of my spots above is 150 yards from a very active barn yard, I can hear the farmer cussing his cattle and see him tossing corn. Another spot above is within 100 yards of a country side housing area. I can hear people watching TV outside, swimming pool parties, screaming kids, etc. Yet another spot is between 2 houses that are 200 yards apart. I can see my truck and the landowner will often come up to my truck and hollar at me to see if I'm having fun, then he leaves a beer on my tailgate.

All of these areas have "overlooked security" around them. Bucks get used to sitting there watching overly active humans hustle and bustle around with their "eyes wide shut".

More typical spots I have have security cover surrounded by open timber so bucks can see things coming from a distance. They're hard to approach, but not impossible if a guy sits down and thinks it out.

The thing I've honed in on is finding the overlooked areas that the majority of guys wont even think about. The great thing about most of them is that I'm not walking as far as the guys walking 3 miles back in the sticks!! And free beers from my landowner!
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Re: Q&A with muddy

Unread postby Dewey » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:13 am

All these years I have been doing it all wrong. :doh: Killing myself going deep to see no deer for the day then getting back dead tired with nothing to drink. A cold beer on my tailgate sure would be refreshing. :lol:


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