2 and a halfs and 3 and a halfs in the same ballpark as mature bucks?

[Double Draw]

In 6 hunts this year I have had within shooting range seven different 3.5 year olds and 2 different 2.5 year olds. I have passed bc my objective is 4.5 or up. I have seen 3 different mature bucks. One I got a really good look at but it was running away as I climbed up the tree. 2 other mature bucks I bumped lightly but they ran (no scent, just sound) but their racks and body size indicate they are mature (99% sure). The question...if you are finding a pile of 2.5 and especially 3.5's are the big boys nearby? Not necessarily? Hunt somewhere else? What's your experience?
You might say, you have seen 3 different mature bucks. You must be in the ballgame; why ask? The best observation of a mature buck encounter made sense...I believe he was in that location due to the rut. I sat the spot purposefully thinking a mature deer might come through bc of nearby doe bedding. The other mature bucks were in new areas that I went to based on wind and cyber-scouting. I don't think the beds were a coincidence/random as I have thought through where I bumped them and it makes sense for mature buck beds. Just wondering everyone's experience of buck age groups mingling together much once the bachelor groups break up. Thanks! Btw, I am on PA public lands.

[Swampbuck]

I think they really become a different animal once they reach 4. Over Half the bucks I've killed have been 3.5, if I get them on cam I have had good success. Much less so on the +4 yr olds. They just dont mess up nearly as much. I think if i find a great area on the edge of bedding with does in the area the 3 yr olds are going to show up pretty quick in the pre rut/rut period. The 4 yr olds much less.

To your question tho, how close are you I am also interested to know. I know the oldest deer I've killed I was right in his bedding so it could be we arent close enough.

[Kraftd]

That’s a bucket load of public land bucks! I don’t want to hear any PA fellas complaining anymore

If for no other reason than the older they are the less there are of them they are different. I think most would agree their behavior is different too. That said, it sounds like you’re in the right areas with what you’re seeing. Use the observations to hone in.

[crankn101]

I dont know the answer for your question, but if a heavy horned 3 yo walks under me he is getting shot.

[Paca]

Ike it’s been said, they are a different animal. They move much less, from my experience. There is also a lot less of them.
Also, since I have started aging deer by both cementum and wear, I have noticed bucks being much older than what I am estimating them on the hoof. It’s surprising how many bucks don’t get into the 140s. Even 130’s
I’d like to meet the guy that can tell the difference between a 3-4 year old buck track, but that’s why I’m here. Very skeptical, but this is a new round table of hunters, I’m willing to listen.

[Double Draw]

That’s a bucket load of public land bucks! I don’t want to hear any PA fellas complaining anymore

If for no other reason than the older they are the less there are of them they are different. I think most would agree their behavior is different too. That said, it sounds like you’re in the right areas with what you’re seeing. Use the observations to hone in.

Honing in is I think precisely what I need to do.
I only started hunting 3 years ago and I heard horror stories about PA public. I work hard to get to good buck sighting areas but there are plenty of bucks around. I never have seen a hunter or boot tracks in those areas...I know some good hunters that probably go to similar places but I've never run into them. My friends think I am nuts passing up 16" spread, almost mature bucks but I hunt to take a buck at the top of his game not for the meat.

[Double Draw]

I dont know the answer for your question, but if a heavy horned 3 yo walks under me he is getting shot.

I am not patient in many things but I have been stubborn on this one. It was hard passing two bucks the other day because I called them from their beds and they came into 10 yards and 7 yards away respectively. But I know what else is there if I can just complete the final piece.

[Double Draw]

Imho the correct answer to this is super annoying. You are only close if they are there. You have to hunt 4.5 yo in places that have 4.5yo. You might hunt a spot and see 5 3.5yo. That will not indicate if there are 4.5 yo around. Scouting should show signs of bucks that’s are of that age class, tracks, rub height, shinning, cams, etc. if you don’t have a few of those sign in the area then you are not close. That said you have seen 3 soooooo

Example. I shinned a very large buck late last week. I hit the surrounding public and found no sign that a buck of that age class lives there. I won’t go back

I have seen lots of large tracks and high rubs. Just not sure how close they are to the mature buck beds. But they aren't the traditional nighttime 'let's make a rub' type as they are in deep, on the other side of natural barriers where most don't go (stream, dense underbrush, etc.). I think I am close but need the final piece of the puzzle.

[Double Draw]

Ike it’s been said, they are a different animal. They move much less, from my experience. There is also a lot less of them.
Also, since I have started aging deer by both cementum and wear, I have noticed bucks being much older than what I am estimating them on the hoof. It’s surprising how many bucks don’t get into the 140s. Even 130’s
I’d like to meet the guy that can tell the difference between a 3-4 year old buck track, but that’s why I’m here. Very skeptical, but this is a new round table of hunters, I’m willing to listen.

I have watched quite a few videos on aging deer and I know it is not an exact science on the hoof but I think I am in the ballpark. What seems to be lacking in 'my' 3.5 year olds is mass in body and antlers and lack of wariness in approach. One of them may have been older bc he acted mature (smelled the air for 10 minutes before coming further) but his body and rack didn't look mature enough. I have seen some for sure mature bucks last year, off-season scouting and the 3 this year and you don't have to think about it...you know they are mature. They may be more than 4.5 so the fine line between the 3s and 4s may be artificial except in my standards.

[westbound]

Ike it’s been said, they are a different animal. They move much less, from my experience. There is also a lot less of them.
Also, since I have started aging deer by both cementum and wear, I have noticed bucks being much older than what I am estimating them on the hoof. It’s surprising how many bucks don’t get into the 140s. Even 130’s
I’d like to meet the guy that can tell the difference between a 3-4 year old buck track, but that’s why I’m here. Very skeptical, but this is a new round table of hunters, I’m willing to listen.

I have watched quite a few videos on aging deer and I know it is not an exact science on the hoof but I think I am in the ballpark. What seems to be lacking in 'my' 3.5 year olds is mass in body and antlers and lack of wariness in approach. One of them may have been older bc he acted mature (smelled the air for 10 minutes before coming further) but his body and rack didn't look mature enough. I have seen some for sure mature bucks last year, off-season scouting and the 3 this year and you don't have to think about it...you know they are mature. They may be more than 4.5 so the fine line between the 3s and 4s may be artificial except in my standards.

When it comes to aging bucks on the hoof, keep in mind that a 4.5 year old is not actually a fully mature buck. Most biologists I've studied say that a buck is not fully mature and producing his best antlers until he's 6.5 years old. There aren't many bucks that old anywhere, much less on public land, so I think a lot of us decide that a 3.5 or 4.5 year old is old enough to consider mature for hunting purposes.

As far as field aging deer, most deer at 4.5 years old are going to look a lot more like a 3.5 year old buck than a 6.5 year old. If your mental image of a mature buck is truly a mature buck (6.5 year old), you are going to be passing on almost all the 4.5 year old bucks that you see. I have the hardest time aging 3.5 and 4.5 year olds, I think its because they are just in the middle of the aging process. A 2 year old is pretty obvious and so is a 5+ year old, its the ones in between that get tricky. One last thing, I would not recommend using antler size or "how a deer acts/wariness" when aging as those both can be highly variable, you are going to be more accurate if you focus on body characteristics alone.
Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it ... good luck tagging a buck you are proud of this season, regardless of its age.

[ghoasthunter]

in my neck of the woods anything over 3.5 is at the end of his days my taxidermist tooth ages every deer brought in last year after the season he had 3 buck out of 170 local deer that were 5.5 years of age. in 25 years of hunting i have killed one buck the one on my avatar that was 6.5 years old i think on stand ive seen 3 so far in my life time. i just hunt what is available too me i try for 4.5 or better but 3.5 is still is a major accomplishment for my woods.

[Paca]

Ike it’s been said, they are a different animal. They move much less, from my experience. There is also a lot less of them.
Also, since I have started aging deer by both cementum and wear, I have noticed bucks being much older than what I am estimating them on the hoof. It’s surprising how many bucks don’t get into the 140s. Even 130’s
I’d like to meet the guy that can tell the difference between a 3-4 year old buck track, but that’s why I’m here. Very skeptical, but this is a new round table of hunters, I’m willing to listen.

I have watched quite a few videos on aging deer and I know it is not an exact science on the hoof but I think I am in the ballpark. What seems to be lacking in 'my' 3.5 year olds is mass in body and antlers and lack of wariness in approach. One of them may have been older bc he acted mature (smelled the air for 10 minutes before coming further) but his body and rack didn't look mature enough. I have seen some for sure mature bucks last year, off-season scouting and the 3 this year and you don't have to think about it...you know they are mature. They may be more than 4.5 so the fine line between the 3s and 4s may be artificial except in my standards.

When it comes to aging bucks on the hoof, keep in mind that a 4.5 year old is not actually a fully mature buck. Most biologists I've studied say that a buck is not fully mature and producing his best antlers until he's 6.5 years old. There aren't many bucks that old anywhere, much less on public land, so I think a lot of us decide that a 3.5 or 4.5 year old is old enough to consider mature for hunting purposes.

As far as field aging deer, most deer at 4.5 years old are going to look a lot more like a 3.5 year old buck than a 6.5 year old. If your mental image of a mature buck is truly a mature buck (6.5 year old), you are going to be passing on almost all the 4.5 year old bucks that you see. I have the hardest time aging 3.5 and 4.5 year olds, I think its because they are just in the middle of the aging process. A 2 year old is pretty obvious and so is a 5+ year old, its the ones in between that get tricky. One last thing, I would not recommend using antler size or "how a deer acts/wariness" when aging as those both can be highly variable, you are going to be more accurate if you focus on body characteristics alone.
Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it ... good luck tagging a buck you are proud of this season, regardless of its age.

I agree my 2017 buck scored 146”, w a 20” spread and 10” g2s. He was a regular in 2016, w over a dozen pictures in 2016. He scored around 100” in 2016.
In 2017, body size showed a clear 3.5. Everything from 2016 also put him at 3.5 in 2017.
Cementum and teeth wear both aged him as a 5.5. In 2017. As a 6.5 he would of probably finally shown the classic fully mature body and heavy rack we all drool over. He was still a solid buck, just not a classic brute.
My coop ages around 10 bucks a year. We see it time and again.

[Double Draw]

Ike it’s been said, they are a different animal. They move much less, from my experience. There is also a lot less of them.
Also, since I have started aging deer by both cementum and wear, I have noticed bucks being much older than what I am estimating them on the hoof. It’s surprising how many bucks don’t get into the 140s. Even 130’s
I’d like to meet the guy that can tell the difference between a 3-4 year old buck track, but that’s why I’m here. Very skeptical, but this is a new round table of hunters, I’m willing to listen.

I have watched quite a few videos on aging deer and I know it is not an exact science on the hoof but I think I am in the ballpark. What seems to be lacking in 'my' 3.5 year olds is mass in body and antlers and lack of wariness in approach. One of them may have been older bc he acted mature (smelled the air for 10 minutes before coming further) but his body and rack didn't look mature enough. I have seen some for sure mature bucks last year, off-season scouting and the 3 this year and you don't have to think about it...you know they are mature. They may be more than 4.5 so the fine line between the 3s and 4s may be artificial except in my standards.

When it comes to aging bucks on the hoof, keep in mind that a 4.5 year old is not actually a fully mature buck. Most biologists I've studied say that a buck is not fully mature and producing his best antlers until he's 6.5 years old. There aren't many bucks that old anywhere, much less on public land, so I think a lot of us decide that a 3.5 or 4.5 year old is old enough to consider mature for hunting purposes.

As far as field aging deer, most deer at 4.5 years old are going to look a lot more like a 3.5 year old buck than a 6.5 year old. If your mental image of a mature buck is truly a mature buck (6.5 year old), you are going to be passing on almost all the 4.5 year old bucks that you see. I have the hardest time aging 3.5 and 4.5 year olds, I think its because they are just in the middle of the aging process. A 2 year old is pretty obvious and so is a 5+ year old, its the ones in between that get tricky. One last thing, I would not recommend using antler size or "how a deer acts/wariness" when aging as those both can be highly variable, you are going to be more accurate if you focus on body characteristics alone.
Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it ... good luck tagging a buck you are proud of this season, regardless of its age.

I appreciate the dialogue. My understanding from a deer biologist is that a deer is mature and finished growing in body-size at 4.5. He will put on more weight and usually the antlers get larger (often much more) beyond this age. So I am in agreement with you just coming at it from a different angle. Good luck the rest of the season!