The public land Challenge!

[ODH]

Early season acorns are an issue in the hills, and a prize in the swamps. Bucks bedding on leeward hills are bedding right under oaks. They don't move much, they just get up and eat. In swamps they bed out in the thick edges and move to the oaks and you can get between them.

Dan and Joe, fast forward to October 15 and you find yourself in the same type of environment as the challenge I am curious where you would you start hunting first, swamps, state land next to farms, or hills? Come mid October which terrain holds the better odds? thanks

[dan]

Early season acorns are an issue in the hills, and a prize in the swamps. Bucks bedding on leeward hills are bedding right under oaks. They don't move much, they just get up and eat. In swamps they bed out in the thick edges and move to the oaks and you can get between them.

Dan and Joe, fast forward to October 15 and you find yourself in the same type of environment as the challenge I am curious where you would you start hunting first, swamps, state land next to farms, or hills? Come mid October which terrain holds the better odds? thanks

I would look at both during that time frame. I would lean a little towards hills.

[dan]

Added all the video's in order at the start of this thread for anyone finding this late.

https://youtu.be/gcAS1ttPA2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEXyD-f8GEU

https://youtu.be/4t2ko1xjzcg

https://youtu.be/OP1ckQL0mLU

https://youtu.be/TQ-f9kCyPeU

[HunterBob]

Congrats again to Dan and Joe for being true Beasts! Thanks for all the time/effort you put in and helping us all learn some things along the way!

[bowtarist]

Dan, I think I heard you say once that you'd rather be in the hills during the rut. I asked the THP guys on their podcast the other night about it and they mentioned you liking the hills better also. Would you pick the hills over all other types of terrain during the rut? Or is their some type of habitat you would look for in bottomland type terrain that would make you go to the bottoms?

[dan]

Dan, I think I heard you say once that you'd rather be in the hills during the rut. I asked the THP guys on their podcast the other night about it and they mentioned you liking the hills better also. Would you pick the hills over all other types of terrain during the rut? Or is their some type of habitat you would look for in bottomland type terrain that would make you go to the bottoms?

In general I prefer hills in rut cause its easy to figure out where bucks are based of wind and leeward hills, and you can predict movement. Swamps on the other hand and farms often have bucks staying in the thick and not moving where you can kill them... This is mostly for nice bucks... Like 3 year olds... When they get to 5 or 6, you can throw a lot of that out the window and hunt them at there beds regardless of time of year.

[Bucky]

That series was a lot of fun to watch

Driving 3hrs both ways is just brutal day after day... especially when u hunt that deep. Good work Joe n Dan

[PredatorTC]

Early season acorns are an issue in the hills, and a prize in the swamps. Bucks bedding on leeward hills are bedding right under oaks. They don't move much, they just get up and eat. In swamps they bed out in the thick edges and move to the oaks and you can get between them.

Dan and Joe, fast forward to October 15 and you find yourself in the same type of environment as the challenge I am curious where you would you start hunting first, swamps, state land next to farms, or hills? Come mid October which terrain holds the better odds? thanks

If you would have asked me this before the challenge, my current answer may be different, but at this point in the game I'm not sure I would be in the hills yet. I hunted that area end of October one year and had my tail handed to me. I didn't grow up hunting the hills so I really need more time in them to grow my confidence and skills. I understand the swamps and marshes and the way that the deer move through them. In my opinion, from what I've seen, people seem more willing to go way back in the hills or climb a steep ledge. Add some water, cattails, dogwood, redbrush and guys just don't seem to go in very deep. Just go in a little deeper than most and you have an entire area to yourselves.

Since I killed that buck, I've had a handful of random locals that reached out to me to chat about hunting. They told me where they hunted and told me about how "remote" it was, or how "overlooked" or how far of a walk their spot was. I knew the spots and what the deer were like in these spots and none of them we're remote or overlooked and they all got way to much pressure to hold a mature animal in my opinion. With that being said, it gave me a good idea of where your average guys heads are at in regards to getting away from other hunters and there not getting away from other hunters which is what the problem is. So if someone thinks that they are an average guy, maybe be a little hard on yourself and push back a little deeper, or really think about what is actually over looked.. "what are you overlooking" in other words.

I would be interested to learn how the deer avoid squirrel hunters. There's gotta be something to it. From personal experience it seems like deer will dump down off a nob out of view and when the squirl hunter leaves, the deer come right back to bedding. In the early season I would imagine the effect of the squirrel hunters is different though because the deer are being relocated from there summer bedding to their October bedding. Now I'm rambling lol

[Ashreve93]

Early season acorns are an issue in the hills, and a prize in the swamps. Bucks bedding on leeward hills are bedding right under oaks. They don't move much, they just get up and eat. In swamps they bed out in the thick edges and move to the oaks and you can get between them.

Dan and Joe, fast forward to October 15 and you find yourself in the same type of environment as the challenge I am curious where you would you start hunting first, swamps, state land next to farms, or hills? Come mid October which terrain holds the better odds? thanks

If you would have asked me this before the challenge, my current answer may be different, but at this point in the game I'm not sure I would be in the hills yet. I hunted that area end of October one year and had my tail handed to me. I didn't grow up hunting the hills so I really need more time in them to grow my confidence and skills. I understand the swamps and marshes and the way that the deer move through them. In my opinion, from what I've seen, people seem more willing to go way back in the hills or climb a steep ledge. Add some water, cattails, dogwood, redbrush and guys just don't seem to go in very deep. Just go in a little deeper than most and you have an entire area to yourselves.

Since I killed that buck, I've had a handful of random locals that reached out to me to chat about hunting. They told me where they hunted and told me about how "remote" it was, or how "overlooked" or how far of a walk their spot was. I knew the spots and what the deer were like in these spots and none of them we're remote or overlooked and they all got way to much pressure to hold a mature animal in my opinion. With that being said, it gave me a good idea of where your average guys heads are at in regards to getting away from other hunters and there not getting away from other hunters which is what the problem is. So if someone thinks that they are an average guy, maybe be a little hard on yourself and push back a little deeper, or really think about what is actually over looked.. "what are you overlooking" in other words.

I would be interested to learn how the deer avoid squirrel hunters. There's gotta be something to it. From personal experience it seems like deer will dump down off a nob out of view and when the squirl hunter leaves, the deer come right back to bedding. In the early season I would imagine the effect of the squirrel hunters is different though because the deer are being relocated from there summer bedding to their October bedding. Now I'm rambling lol

They head to the swamps. Lol there are most certainly other answers to this question, but on the first day of small game, you stand your best chance in a swamp. Especially on an "exit" trail entering a swamp.

[PredatorTC]

Early season acorns are an issue in the hills, and a prize in the swamps. Bucks bedding on leeward hills are bedding right under oaks. They don't move much, they just get up and eat. In swamps they bed out in the thick edges and move to the oaks and you can get between them.

Dan and Joe, fast forward to October 15 and you find yourself in the same type of environment as the challenge I am curious where you would you start hunting first, swamps, state land next to farms, or hills? Come mid October which terrain holds the better odds? thanks

If you would have asked me this before the challenge, my current answer may be different, but at this point in the game I'm not sure I would be in the hills yet. I hunted that area end of October one year and had my tail handed to me. I didn't grow up hunting the hills so I really need more time in them to grow my confidence and skills. I understand the swamps and marshes and the way that the deer move through them. In my opinion, from what I've seen, people seem more willing to go way back in the hills or climb a steep ledge. Add some water, cattails, dogwood, redbrush and guys just don't seem to go in very deep. Just go in a little deeper than most and you have an entire area to yourselves.

Since I killed that buck, I've had a handful of random locals that reached out to me to chat about hunting. They told me where they hunted and told me about how "remote" it was, or how "overlooked" or how far of a walk their spot was. I knew the spots and what the deer were like in these spots and none of them we're remote or overlooked and they all got way to much pressure to hold a mature animal in my opinion. With that being said, it gave me a good idea of where your average guys heads are at in regards to getting away from other hunters and there not getting away from other hunters which is what the problem is. So if someone thinks that they are an average guy, maybe be a little hard on yourself and push back a little deeper, or really think about what is actually over looked.. "what are you overlooking" in other words.

I would be interested to learn how the deer avoid squirrel hunters. There's gotta be something to it. From personal experience it seems like deer will dump down off a nob out of view and when the squirl hunter leaves, the deer come right back to bedding. In the early season I would imagine the effect of the squirrel hunters is different though because the deer are being relocated from there summer bedding to their October bedding. Now I'm rambling lol

They head to the swamps. Lol there are most certainly other answers to this question, but on the first day of small game, you stand your best chance in a swamp. Especially on an "exit" trail entering a swamp.

In the particular area that we were camping in Minnesota, there really were no swamps for the deer to hide in. But, I also know there are giants there, so there's more to it than that. I'm sure a lot move to the private, but there was also a lack of private in this area. I've watched a lot of deer watch people and I assume it's the same in those hills. I'm just curious down to the finest detail as to how to kill them in these situations

[ODH]

Thank you both for your replies. I'm assuming in mid-Oct bucks are still primarily on a bed-to-feed pattern, but I guess what I hear you both saying is to first go figure out where they are. Given hunter pressure gradually increasing every day it's likely they are further and further from a road or trailhead (except those that are perched watching the trailhead).

[Ashreve93]

Early season acorns are an issue in the hills, and a prize in the swamps. Bucks bedding on leeward hills are bedding right under oaks. They don't move much, they just get up and eat. In swamps they bed out in the thick edges and move to the oaks and you can get between them.

Dan and Joe, fast forward to October 15 and you find yourself in the same type of environment as the challenge I am curious where you would you start hunting first, swamps, state land next to farms, or hills? Come mid October which terrain holds the better odds? thanks

If you would have asked me this before the challenge, my current answer may be different, but at this point in the game I'm not sure I would be in the hills yet. I hunted that area end of October one year and had my tail handed to me. I didn't grow up hunting the hills so I really need more time in them to grow my confidence and skills. I understand the swamps and marshes and the way that the deer move through them. In my opinion, from what I've seen, people seem more willing to go way back in the hills or climb a steep ledge. Add some water, cattails, dogwood, redbrush and guys just don't seem to go in very deep. Just go in a little deeper than most and you have an entire area to yourselves.

Since I killed that buck, I've had a handful of random locals that reached out to me to chat about hunting. They told me where they hunted and told me about how "remote" it was, or how "overlooked" or how far of a walk their spot was. I knew the spots and what the deer were like in these spots and none of them we're remote or overlooked and they all got way to much pressure to hold a mature animal in my opinion. With that being said, it gave me a good idea of where your average guys heads are at in regards to getting away from other hunters and there not getting away from other hunters which is what the problem is. So if someone thinks that they are an average guy, maybe be a little hard on yourself and push back a little deeper, or really think about what is actually over looked.. "what are you overlooking" in other words.

I would be interested to learn how the deer avoid squirrel hunters. There's gotta be something to it. From personal experience it seems like deer will dump down off a nob out of view and when the squirl hunter leaves, the deer come right back to bedding. In the early season I would imagine the effect of the squirrel hunters is different though because the deer are being relocated from there summer bedding to their October bedding. Now I'm rambling lol

They head to the swamps. Lol there are most certainly other answers to this question, but on the first day of small game, you stand your best chance in a swamp. Especially on an "exit" trail entering a swamp.

In the particular area that we were camping in Minnesota, there really were no swamps for the deer to hide in. But, I also know there are giants there, so there's more to it than that. I'm sure a lot move to the private, but there was also a lack of private in this area. I've watched a lot of deer watch people and I assume it's the same in those hills. I'm just curious down to the finest detail as to how to kill them in these situations

That curiosity is what makes you such a killer.. id imagine you're right, id also imagine the biggest bucks have multiple beds as described, but also the perfect escape route, whether it's a steep military crest, or an impenetrable thicket. Im curious myself. What requirements does a 5.5 year old Minnesota hill country buck have for his bed?

[tgreeno]

If you would have asked me this before the challenge, my current answer may be different, but at this point in the game I'm not sure I would be in the hills yet. I hunted that area end of October one year and had my tail handed to me. I didn't grow up hunting the hills so I really need more time in them to grow my confidence and skills. I understand the swamps and marshes and the way that the deer move through them. In my opinion, from what I've seen, people seem more willing to go way back in the hills or climb a steep ledge. Add some water, cattails, dogwood, redbrush and guys just don't seem to go in very deep. Just go in a little deeper than most and you have an entire area to yourselves.

Since I killed that buck, I've had a handful of random locals that reached out to me to chat about hunting. They told me where they hunted and told me about how "remote" it was, or how "overlooked" or how far of a walk their spot was. I knew the spots and what the deer were like in these spots and none of them we're remote or overlooked and they all got way to much pressure to hold a mature animal in my opinion. With that being said, it gave me a good idea of where your average guys heads are at in regards to getting away from other hunters and there not getting away from other hunters which is what the problem is. So if someone thinks that they are an average guy, maybe be a little hard on yourself and push back a little deeper, or really think about what is actually over looked.. "what are you overlooking" in other words.

I would be interested to learn how the deer avoid squirrel hunters. There's gotta be something to it. From personal experience it seems like deer will dump down off a nob out of view and when the squirl hunter leaves, the deer come right back to bedding. In the early season I would imagine the effect of the squirrel hunters is different though because the deer are being relocated from there summer bedding to their October bedding. Now I'm rambling lol

I totally agree with these statements Joe! I believe this is me. After 3 years of beast hunting, I don't think I'm doing what it takes to get into mature bucks. And my results (or lack there of) are proving it. Maybe there aren't even any mature bucks in the areas I'm hunting? Walking 3 miles into the marsh by myself, and dragging out a deer alone in the dark, is most likely beyond my abilities at this point in my life.

[mipubbucks24]

Question for Dan and Joe, if you guys were forced to hunt the first swamps and marshes with no acorns how would you have gone about it?

Reason why I ask is because I am yet to find really solid acorns in the swamps and marshes that I am hunting and as far as I can tell from several years of hunting it, the deer seem to move in later in the season as all the corn in surrounding areas gets taken down. It also seems to coincide with the pre-rut. It’s like a switch gets turned on the last week of October and there is all the sudden rubs and scrapes all over, but the first 15-20 days of October I find very sparse buck sign.

Would you solely hunt terrain, or would you just write off the area? How would you set up a season long strategy?

Every place is different, so I may be off a little, but in the Minnesota case, the swamps we scouted did not have buck sign... Sign don't lie, everything was from weeks earlier, and the rubs were from last year rut. No sign, no bucks... Why hunt there at all? It would be like hunting Elephants in Michigan... I either had to hind swamp with acorns, near acorns, or hunt them in the hills... They were in the acorns.

You could possibly search till you find sign, there may be a few. But best strategy would be to go to the deer.

mipubbucks you are in the exact same situation that I'm in. I have described it the same way. It really is "the flip of a switch". Don't feel bad if you're not finding the big bucks this time of year. YOU are not the problem... its the scenario. Just keep scouting... I made it out 3 times last weekend. Friday I didn't have time to hunt so I scouted from 4:30 until close to sundown. Saturday I only had time to observe. Sunday I scouted then observed. You can learn a lot by hunting, but you will learn far more by scouting in season. I wish it hadn't taken so long for me to let that sink in.

Thanks Guys for the advice. I had already gone into this season with a scout until you find fresh sign. Its just easy to fall into the trap of this is the public that I hunt, and even if I use Beast tactics, if the deer are not there I’m just banging my head against the wall. I’ll be doing some driving in the coming weeks to try and find some more productive land.

Just goes to show why Dan scouts/learns how to hunt varying terrain types. What one doesn't have at a certain time of year. Another might, which can really up the odds.

Reading the comments under the video's there were several that said they were dissipointed that I did not hunt the hills and I should of tried harder there... Well, those guys just don't get it. You do what you can to succeed. You need to up your odds anyway you can, there is a time to be in the hills, and a time to be in the swamp.

Dan I am glad you guys moved to ground that had acorns, because it really drove home the point of what lengths we most go to. Also really showed how you guys would break down a marsh/swamp. Also just confirmed in my eyes what I already believed, is what kind of amazing hunters you guys are. For any that are in doubt of your tactics they need to watch this series. Thanks Again Dan, Joe, Garret, and THP guys!!

[PredatorTC]

Early season acorns are an issue in the hills, and a prize in the swamps. Bucks bedding on leeward hills are bedding right under oaks. They don't move much, they just get up and eat. In swamps they bed out in the thick edges and move to the oaks and you can get between them.

Dan and Joe, fast forward to October 15 and you find yourself in the same type of environment as the challenge I am curious where you would you start hunting first, swamps, state land next to farms, or hills? Come mid October which terrain holds the better odds? thanks

If you would have asked me this before the challenge, my current answer may be different, but at this point in the game I'm not sure I would be in the hills yet. I hunted that area end of October one year and had my tail handed to me. I didn't grow up hunting the hills so I really need more time in them to grow my confidence and skills. I understand the swamps and marshes and the way that the deer move through them. In my opinion, from what I've seen, people seem more willing to go way back in the hills or climb a steep ledge. Add some water, cattails, dogwood, redbrush and guys just don't seem to go in very deep. Just go in a little deeper than most and you have an entire area to yourselves.

Since I killed that buck, I've had a handful of random locals that reached out to me to chat about hunting. They told me where they hunted and told me about how "remote" it was, or how "overlooked" or how far of a walk their spot was. I knew the spots and what the deer were like in these spots and none of them we're remote or overlooked and they all got way to much pressure to hold a mature animal in my opinion. With that being said, it gave me a good idea of where your average guys heads are at in regards to getting away from other hunters and there not getting away from other hunters which is what the problem is. So if someone thinks that they are an average guy, maybe be a little hard on yourself and push back a little deeper, or really think about what is actually over looked.. "what are you overlooking" in other words.

I would be interested to learn how the deer avoid squirrel hunters. There's gotta be something to it. From personal experience it seems like deer will dump down off a nob out of view and when the squirl hunter leaves, the deer come right back to bedding. In the early season I would imagine the effect of the squirrel hunters is different though because the deer are being relocated from there summer bedding to their October bedding. Now I'm rambling lol

They head to the swamps. Lol there are most certainly other answers to this question, but on the first day of small game, you stand your best chance in a swamp. Especially on an "exit" trail entering a swamp.

In the particular area that we were camping in Minnesota, there really were no swamps for the deer to hide in. But, I also know there are giants there, so there's more to it than that. I'm sure a lot move to the private, but there was also a lack of private in this area. I've watched a lot of deer watch people and I assume it's the same in those hills. I'm just curious down to the finest detail as to how to kill them in these situations

That curiosity is what makes you such a killer.. id imagine you're right, id also imagine the biggest bucks have multiple beds as described, but also the perfect escape route, whether it's a steep military crest, or an impenetrable thicket. Im curious myself. What requirements does a 5.5 year old Minnesota hill country buck have for his bed?

That definitely makes sense. Just like in swamps, you bump them out of one bed and they might only move over a hundred yards to the next one