Myth: Rain/scent

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ghoasthunter
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby ghoasthunter » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:55 am

well a dogs nose is wet hmm why could this be and a deer licks its nose when its really trying too pic up a scent. well this is because moisture helps break down the scent particles so the animal can sort it out down too a molecular level. light rain will probably do the same thing too ground scent add on low pressure pushing your scent too ground. now lets think about a heavy rain its going too spread your scent around some will wash away in runoff some will soak into ground some will be destroyed buy friction created from rain buy something they call ozone in the hunting industry. when its dry out the humidity is less so odor does not stick as well ad on high pressure scent is lifted and carried away but deer can hear you for miles. so my answer is no wonder hunting is so hard there is no win in any direction for every push there is a shove. no matter what you do scent is still going to be there till it erodes away. now a deer will smell you on a spot no matter what so how long does it take a deer to realize your not a threat anymore? this is why a hunt is won or lost on the plan how are you going too approach a spot? do you plan on hunting it more than once? no matter what you do the jig is up once you set foot in a area. so... you need to trick that deer and stack your odds and make every move good or bad stack in your favor remember for every action is a reaction. and all you need too kill is set that trap. and in the end i think this is what beast hunting means 8-)


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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby Beastintraining » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:19 am

ghoasthunter wrote:well a dogs nose is wet hmm why could this be and a deer licks its nose when its really trying too pic up a scent. well this is because moisture helps break down the scent particles so the animal can sort it out down too a molecular level. light rain will probably do the same thing too ground scent add on low pressure pushing your scent too ground. now lets think about a heavy rain its going too spread your scent around some will wash away in runoff some will soak into ground some will be destroyed buy friction created from rain buy something they call ozone in the hunting industry. when its dry out the humidity is less so odor does not stick as well ad on high pressure scent is lifted and carried away but deer can hear you for miles. so my answer is no wonder hunting is so hard there is no win in any direction for every push there is a shove. no matter what you do scent is still going to be there till it erodes away. now a deer will smell you on a spot no matter what so how long does it take a deer to realize your not a threat anymore? this is why a hunt is won or lost on the plan how are you going too approach a spot? do you plan on hunting it more than once? no matter what you do the jig is up once you set foot in a area. so... you need to trick that deer and stack your odds and make every move good or bad stack in your favor remember for every action is a reaction. and all you need too kill is set that trap. and in the end i think this is what beast hunting means 8-)


Ah you beat me to it, I was going to bring up the fact that deer, and other animals, will lick there noses to increase their ability to smell. I agree with everything you say here.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby elk yinzer » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:35 am

Good perspectives. Would love to hear from more houndsman. My experience isn't great but hunted a good bit with rabbit beagles growing up, and they definitely do better with moisture. Never ran them on all-out rain.

I suppose if you are out there in a downpour, yeah, scent is washed away. But I get the impression more guys are relating this advice to light rain and drizzly days thinking their scent is disappearing when they slip in to check cameras...nope.

There's also just the factor of how they react. I think deer can tell how old residual human odor is, and largely it’s really not a huge bother to them. To a certain extent I think they can even be curious trying to figure out what the heck you were doing in their turf. Especially like Boogieman said, if you are just passing through and throwing up a camera, versus the deer being more alarmed knowing a human was sitting there for hours stinking up the whole place. And some deer don’t really react as much to human scent, period.

Not something I pay a lot of attention to, just one of those things that seems like it has become ubiquitous advice. Especially pertaining to trail cams. "Check them on rainy days". And I just shake my head every time I read it.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby Grizzlyadam » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:53 am

I am a firm believer in doing cams before or during a decent rain. I always recommend it. The pics I get afterwards are proof enough for me of it's effectiveness. I don't know about rain technically washing away scent on a molecular level or whatever. That seems to be over thinking this a bit. In my mind its about what I can get away with. What's the best practice to increase my odds. I don't see any reason why a decent prolonged rain fall wouldn't render my scent trail from going to a stand or cam to be too diluted for a deer to easily detect while passing through afterwards. Kind of like rain washing away a blood trail I'm following. Yea, the blood is still there somewhere but too diluted for me to detect.

As has been said there is no always or never in the deer world. Maybe some deer watched you from a distance and came through afterwards with a CSI mindset. Determined to figure you out. But a casual passer by shouldn't pick up your scent IMO.


Im talking about a good prolonged rain fall after you go through the woods. I don't expect a shower or even passing thunderstorm to necessarily do the job. Sometimes the rain barely even makes it to the ground if the canopy is thick enough. As some have said that may actually enhance the scent left behind after you were there.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby amesk31 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:02 am

I coon hunted with treeing walker coon hounds for most of my childhood till i was 20. Hunting was always better when we had rain period. But i think there are some other factors come into play vs. coon hunting and a human trying to avoid contaminating an area 1) Raccoons are more active in a slight rain, so if their traveling more and leaving more ground scent. 2) The Raccoons are also out there getting wet so there dripping moisture as the walk. We used to put raccoons in rolling cages and dunk there feet and belly in water before letting them roll around while training a young pups. So to make a comparison between someone vs. animal ground scent you would have to be out there while its raining which would leave more scent. That being said i agree that'd it would take decent downpour to have an effect on the scent you leave behind. I have read somewhere that a deer has a better nose than a hound and I have seen those dogs follow a branch walking coon a long ways down a river bottom because they can pick up the scent in the air not just ground scent.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby Florida-East » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:14 am

I've always thought of scent in two ways, scent on things you've touched and scent in the air. I've always tried to avoid needlessly touching things while scouting or hunting... but I've always figured a good rain washes that away. Scent in the air I always figured dry days my scent cone is at max width for whatever wind speed but disperses quickly down range, but during humid times my scent cone narrows, though probably travels further... thought process is that there are small water droplets that pickup my scent and hold on to it.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby tgreeno » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:56 am

I think alot has to do with the deer also. I've had a doe hit my scent trail in the late morning. Stand and sniff for 5 minutes. Then slowly turn around and head the other direction. I've had buck not react to my scent trail in the rain. Also have had many deer not react to my trails in the dry weather. I believe it's totally situational! What is the personality of that deer, and how are they feeling that day.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby Killtree » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:40 am

elk yinzer wrote:I see and hear it all the time: “the rain is going to wash my scent away”.

Variation one, rains after, scent is “washed away”. I think this is plausible, but only if we are talking massive quantities of rain. 1/4" shower ain't gonna do anything.

Variation two, rains prior to going in an area, somehow scent is magically not left behind.



I think both variations are pure B.S. Scent molecules bond to moisture. Anyone that hunts with scent hounds can vouch for the effect.

The best conditions to minimize residual human odor in an area are bone dry, low humidity.

Convince me I am wrong...


I have ran hounds my whole life and absolutely totally 100% agree with you.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby tim » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:47 pm

We will never know for sure, I always assume they will smell my scent after I’m there.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby elk yinzer » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:57 pm

tim wrote:We will never know for sure, I always assume they will smell my scent after I’m there.


That's a pretty solid rule of thumb right there.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby Lockdown » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:14 pm

Nothing crazy, just an interesting read! Gonna see what else I can find...

https://www.familydisasterdogs.com/2012 ... cking.html
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby Lockdown » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:19 pm

This isn't specific to rain, but I found it very interesting. This lady trained dogs for 22 years.

"As you search for a reputable K9 handler with trained dogs, you may hear many different opinions on the viability and a dog's ability to detect scent. There will be purported experts that will spout a 14-day limit while others will swear scent is gone in five days. There are other experts that contend scent lasts for years. In truth they are all right and they are all wrong because viable scent is different from dog to dog. Some dogs will be able to detect and follow scent months after the original trail was laid while other dogs may not be able to detect the scent trail after 24 hours. Much of the confusion about scent comes from the way in which handlers train their dogs. If they believe that scent somehow magically disappears on the 15th day, then they will train this way and their dogs will only be exposed to aged trails less than that. Always inquire as to the philosophy of the K9 handler before hiring anyone so you will know what to expect.

So... keep in mind it is more about training and exposing scent dogs to older scent and that there is no exacting time table by which scent disappears.

After two decades working scent detection dogs and training over 110 dogs in this work, I know this to be the truth."

~Karin TarQwyn
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:51 pm

Lockdown wrote:This isn't specific to rain, but I found it very interesting. This lady trained dogs for 22 years.

"As you search for a reputable K9 handler with trained dogs, you may hear many different opinions on the viability and a dog's ability to detect scent. There will be purported experts that will spout a 14-day limit while others will swear scent is gone in five days. There are other experts that contend scent lasts for years. In truth they are all right and they are all wrong because viable scent is different from dog to dog. Some dogs will be able to detect and follow scent months after the original trail was laid while other dogs may not be able to detect the scent trail after 24 hours. Much of the confusion about scent comes from the way in which handlers train their dogs. If they believe that scent somehow magically disappears on the 15th day, then they will train this way and their dogs will only be exposed to aged trails less than that. Always inquire as to the philosophy of the K9 handler before hiring anyone so you will know what to expect.

So... keep in mind it is more about training and exposing scent dogs to older scent and that there is no exacting time table by which scent disappears.

After two decades working scent detection dogs and training over 110 dogs in this work, I know this to be the truth."

~Karin TarQwyn

I just find it odd if this was the case. I mean let's take a coyote who is trained by life and death, if scent stayed for weeks, months and years I would suspect them to have a lil more weight on em. Let's look at slow moving prey species, like snakes and frogs. How would they have a chance in helli if a coyote could cut there track from a month ago and run them down. Not saying my assumption is correct but it's my honest thoughts.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby Lockdown » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:41 pm

Boogieman1 wrote:
Lockdown wrote:This isn't specific to rain, but I found it very interesting. This lady trained dogs for 22 years.

"As you search for a reputable K9 handler with trained dogs, you may hear many different opinions on the viability and a dog's ability to detect scent. There will be purported experts that will spout a 14-day limit while others will swear scent is gone in five days. There are other experts that contend scent lasts for years. In truth they are all right and they are all wrong because viable scent is different from dog to dog. Some dogs will be able to detect and follow scent months after the original trail was laid while other dogs may not be able to detect the scent trail after 24 hours. Much of the confusion about scent comes from the way in which handlers train their dogs. If they believe that scent somehow magically disappears on the 15th day, then they will train this way and their dogs will only be exposed to aged trails less than that. Always inquire as to the philosophy of the K9 handler before hiring anyone so you will know what to expect.

So... keep in mind it is more about training and exposing scent dogs to older scent and that there is no exacting time table by which scent disappears.

After two decades working scent detection dogs and training over 110 dogs in this work, I know this to be the truth."

~Karin TarQwyn

I just find it odd if this was the case. I mean let's take a coyote who is trained by life and death, if scent stayed for weeks, months and years I would suspect them to have a lil more weight on em. Let's look at slow moving prey species, like snakes and frogs. How would they have a chance in helli if a coyote could cut there track from a month ago and run them down. Not saying my assumption is correct but it's my honest thoughts.


They can tell how fresh it is. They know if they're hot on their trail or 2-3 days behind. Just like a buck knows if you're 15 yards or 150. Its about the concentration of scent. In the tracking dog world, any scent is all systems go so how fresh it is doesn't matter.
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Re: Myth: Rain/scent

Unread postby Lockdown » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:45 pm

Lockdown wrote:
Boogieman1 wrote:
Lockdown wrote:This isn't specific to rain, but I found it very interesting. This lady trained dogs for 22 years.

"As you search for a reputable K9 handler with trained dogs, you may hear many different opinions on the viability and a dog's ability to detect scent. There will be purported experts that will spout a 14-day limit while others will swear scent is gone in five days. There are other experts that contend scent lasts for years. In truth they are all right and they are all wrong because viable scent is different from dog to dog. Some dogs will be able to detect and follow scent months after the original trail was laid while other dogs may not be able to detect the scent trail after 24 hours. Much of the confusion about scent comes from the way in which handlers train their dogs. If they believe that scent somehow magically disappears on the 15th day, then they will train this way and their dogs will only be exposed to aged trails less than that. Always inquire as to the philosophy of the K9 handler before hiring anyone so you will know what to expect.

So... keep in mind it is more about training and exposing scent dogs to older scent and that there is no exacting time table by which scent disappears.

After two decades working scent detection dogs and training over 110 dogs in this work, I know this to be the truth."

~Karin TarQwyn

I just find it odd if this was the case. I mean let's take a coyote who is trained by life and death, if scent stayed for weeks, months and years I would suspect them to have a lil more weight on em. Let's look at slow moving prey species, like snakes and frogs. How would they have a chance in helli if a coyote could cut there track from a month ago and run them down. Not saying my assumption is correct but it's my honest thoughts.


They can tell how fresh it is. They know if they're hot on their trail or 2-3 days behind. Just like a buck knows if you're 15 yards or 150. Its about the concentration of scent. In the tracking dog world, any scent is all systems go so how fresh it is doesn't matter.


In a similar way, when MagicMan is snow tracking, he doesn't take every track. He only picks a track he feels he can catch up to. I bet a yote is the same way when they use their nose.

Also I'm betting the comment about scent lasting years is detectable scent in a controlled environment. Ain't no way that's gonna happen outside :lol:


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